Being, on the staff, I am required to say that I find the policy to work quite well.
In actuality, while it usually gets rid of people I either don't care about or hate, I don't like it in principle. Rules should be clear cut and well-defined. :/
I think the biggest problems I have with OTC are thus:
Several of the regulars are better known for picking fights and trying to sway a thread in their favour than actually trying to learn anything from the experience. I've seen several threads that could have been interesting and fun to read devolve into fights over the US political system way too many times for comfort.
Also, the subject matter is, to be frank, depressing. There are just some things in the news that I don't want to think about, or that I don't want to discuss. It's as bad as Slashdot used to be -- the sky is always falling and it is always a harsh nuclear winter. BLUH.
I also agree that the rules are too vague, but I'd also go further: What written rules there are seem to be written not for the good of the community, but as a way to silence anyone who doesn't like the forums -- even if it's constructive criticism -- because OMG SA THINKS WE'RE FUCKING NERDS. Guess what, guys, WE ARE NERDS. Have some pride in yourself, eh?
Something Awful can die in a fire. They are good for Lets Plays and nothing else, and the members of the LP community (for instance, Raocow) do not tend to be the same people who criticize us anyway.
Well, as I understand it, GBS and FYAD are the bad parts. The rest of the site seems less smug, or so I've heard; I won't go there, myself, and I gave up on 4chan for many of the same reasons.
I'm just convinced at this point that the lot of them have inferiority complexes or something. Because you don't hate on something that much without some sort of deep-seated emotional issue.
Well, that and I've never liked gated communities, either in real life or on the Internet. Living in one just makes it seems like you're kind of up your own ass, and it's no different with places like SA where you have to either pay or jump through hoops for access because you automatically suck otherwise.
All that said...the way TVT has been handling this has been less like a site with aspirations to professionalism, and more like a perennial drama queen like Chris-chan. They either do nothing and complain about how horrible the trolls are, or they take it entirely the wrong way and swear revenge, which ends up impacting innocent bystanders as well. This is where a policy about TMI and saying potentially embarrassing things in public would have been useful, but no one thought of that until it was too late and Eddie was sure the Fashion Police were going to arrest him.
I would just prefer we have some sort of consistent policy. I don't care if we ban creepy things, but then let's ban ALL the creepy things, not just lolicon and then say that guro is okay. Or if we're not going to ban creepy things, than ban none of them. It really matters very little to me, I just want everyone to shut up about it already.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say it: Unless it's something of dubious legality (such as lolicon/shotacon or certain types of guro) then I don't see why it should be banned at all. People are going to have their preferences, haters are gonna hate, and catering to their whims is a fool's errand in my opinion.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Being, on the staff, I am required to say that I find the policy to work quite well.
I don't think that's a healthy mindset to have.
Granted, Forum Herald is so low in the chain of command that it's unlikely you'll actually be listened to by the higher-ups (no offense), but if the staff refuse to suggest improvements, well, nothing can ever improve.
An other problem is that each b oard seems to have its own rules threads which makes it really confusing and hard to keep up with. You get no warning of anything that would result i n a ban that you ahve done and they assume you know why you were banned.
There's really no reason that the Lolicon page has to now say "lol, pedophilia is bad". I mean that's so fucking stupid. REALLY? Pedophilia is BAD? Next thing you'll tell me that things fall when you drop them! I'm fucken astounded!
I mean, if you need to be told that pedophilia is bad, you're already convinced it isn't. So it serves no purpose.
I don't think that's a healthy mindset to have.
Granted, Forum Herald is so low in the chain of command that it's unlikely you'll actually be listened to by the higher-ups (no offense), but if the staff refuse to suggest improvements, well, nothing can ever improve.
That was just me poking fun at myself, CA. No one in the moderation listens to me. Even the ones that aren't annoyed by me.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
There's really no reason that the Lolicon page has to now say "lol, pedophilia is bad". I mean that's so fucking stupid. REALLY? Pedophilia is BAD? Next thing you'll tell me that things fall when you drop them! I'm fucken astounded!
I think part of the problem is that certain depictions of topics--fuck it, the example I'm thinking of is Kodomo no Jikan--tend to attract, well, gushing. Which sends the message--regardless of whether it's true--that TVT as a whole approves of such things.
That's why there's the "Google Curtain" now, with ads behind it being funded by a different service.
I think part of the problem is that certain depictions of topics--fuck it, the example I'm thinking of is Kodomo no Jikan--tend to attract, well, gushing. Which sends the message--regardless of whether it's true--that TVT as a whole approves of such things.
Gushing in general is supposed to be closely monitored. It's just that no one actually does that.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Gushing in general is supposed to be closely monitored. It's just that no one actually does that.
And therein lies the problem. If you're not going to outright state that pedophilia is bad (which I agree shouldn't be necessary), you need to watch closely to make sure it's not depicted in a positive light.
If someone did sue, they'd have to have a good reason if they don't want their suit laughed out of court. If it's an Internet kook threatening to file a lawsuit, then that's doubly silly because they do that all the time and rarely, if ever, follow through.
The problem I had with TVT is you could have really socially bad opinions like "Omgz Teh Euroz R Commies" or "All Gayz must be purged" but if you said it in a civil manner, you were untouchable.
I dig SA because several of the threads have made me laugh and that's enough for me.
OTC and anyone who enjoys it (present company excluded) can die in a fire. Also,
The problem I had with TVT is you could have really socially bad opinions like "Omgz Teh Euroz R Commies" or "All Gayz must be purged" but if you said it in a civil manner, you were untouchable.
This has always bugged me about TVT. There comes a time when you have to lay down the law and start weeding out the crazies, but no one at TVT will ever learn that.
Please, the mods fucking LOVED me. They were on my dick like antlers on a (gay) deer, which is how I impregnated myself with a frothy mixture of bad administration, hatred and my own dick-juice. Besides, I never said anything overtly crazy like "LET'S KILL ALL THE GAYS!" or "I FAP TO IMAGES OF CHILDREN AND THAT'S OKAY!" or "YAY CASTRATION!", so they wouldn't have touched me.
This has always bugged me about TVT. There comes a time when you have to lay down the law and start weeding out the crazies, but no one at TVT will ever learn that.
Oh? I think they actually overdid it already, which is pretty much why I'm contemplating leaving
Scares me too besides there can never be a consensus on what opinions are crazy and such. for me It would be people like Tomu and johnnyfog that I cons ider crazy
Y'know I've come to the conclusion that I don't actually hate Something Awful.
I hate that their opinions (and not even all their opinions, just the negative ones) get exported to TVTropes and half the users take them as gospel. It's rather irritating. We did the same thing with ED for awhile.
And y'know, they're entitled to their opinions. It's a free country, internet, whatever, but I don't get why theirs are the "right" ones.
I mean, SA is far, far, far, far FAR from the only site that has taken the piss out of TVTropes (anyone ever heard of Busy Street? Yeah) I don't get why we fixate on them.
We like to say we are, but we've never cracked down on bigotry and never will. Like I said in the first place, we need to pick an axis. Are we banning for how nice you are, or how socially acceptable your opinions are? There's no right answer to that, but we need to frickin' pick one.
And you may be right about filling the quota thing. I don't know. I know that when I'm not hearing about how much they apparently hate us, I don't care about SA at all.
Well, that's just my opinion, and it might be wrong. But my main problem is, as Tnu put it, that there can never be consensus about what opinions are crazy.
(shrugs) Not that it matters much. I don't run the site, and noone has any obligation whatsoever to run it in the way I'd prefer.
That makes sense, but, and this is just my opinion, any posts (and of course the people that make them) that involve fantasizing about anything blatantly illegal due to harming / traumatizing another person shouldn't be allowed. But, other than that, yeah, I suppose you can't really judge what is and isn't "crazy".
Racism and paedophilia were bannable offences years ago. The rules just aren't consistently enforced.
"Being a creep" has historically been tolerated, but should probably fall under dickery.
Finding the whole thing kinda frustrating, tbh. Anything too radical and we're the opinion police. Anything too conservative and we're not acting fast enough. Three mods confer with one another and resolve to ban somebody for advocating mass slaughter, and apparently we're not consistent because somebody got away with that before.
And anyone who thinks that SA thread is just "haha, nerds" needs to reread the Triumphant's posts.
I can understand the frustration, but unfortunately it's all but unavoidable. In a large and diverse community like TVTropes, you're going to get people who draw the line on what is and isn't acceptable at very different places, meaning that someone's always going to be complain. Not the same people (mostly), but still. (Though I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to complain about inconsistency even when they agree with the decision: from that perspective, it may be better than making the same incorrect decision twice but worse than making the correct decision twice, or it may be that inconsistency in and of itself is considered more problematic.)
Complaints I can handle. I'd just rather it wasn't many of the nicest or most interesting people deciding to up sticks or get banned for pissing off Eddie.
And, I understand the perspective that consistency is something to aim for, I even agree with it, but the fact is that there are areas where we still aren't in agreement and areas where our rules need work, and it's not exactly easy coming to an agreement on the mod board, let alone in Wiki Talk threads with people who will assume the worst of your every ambiguous remark. Not to the extent that the goons do, but still.
We don't ban people for lacking sunny dispositions, though, unless that's bundled with outright hostility or condescension.
Thump counts are considered, personal attack/rudeness thumps moreso than offtopic ones. TBH I worry that too much attention is given to those and too little to post/edit histories, though.
Comments
Being, on the staff, I am required to say that I find the policy to work quite well.
In actuality, while it usually gets rid of people I either don't care about or hate, I don't like it in principle. Rules should be clear cut and well-defined. :/
Something Awful can die in a fire. They are good for Lets Plays and nothing else, and the members of the LP community (for instance, Raocow) do not tend to be the same people who criticize us anyway.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I'm just convinced at this point that the lot of them have inferiority complexes or something. Because you don't hate on something that much without some sort of deep-seated emotional issue.
How do I know that? Fuck you, that's how.
I don't understand the mindset at work there, perhaps because I don't share it or I've never devoted much thought to it in the first place.
Granted, Forum Herald is so low in the chain of command that it's unlikely you'll actually be listened to by the higher-ups (no offense), but if the staff refuse to suggest improvements, well, nothing can ever improve.
Lee: That's pretty much my own opinion.
There's really no reason that the Lolicon page has to now say "lol, pedophilia is bad". I mean that's so fucking stupid. REALLY? Pedophilia is BAD? Next thing you'll tell me that things fall when you drop them! I'm fucken astounded!
I mean, if you need to be told that pedophilia is bad, you're already convinced it isn't. So it serves no purpose.
That was just me poking fun at myself, CA. No one in the moderation listens to me. Even the ones that aren't annoyed by me.
Also how do I quote text.
TVT can't be sued. It's a non-profit organization.
Now, our ad revenue could be cut if Google pulled our ads (and they have before) but I'm reasonably sure we can't be sued.
It was about objectionable content.
That's why there's the "Google Curtain" now, with ads behind it being funded by a different service.
Gushing in general is supposed to be closely monitored. It's just that no one actually does that.
And I wouldn't mind that.
I in fact, don't mind that we trim gushing, generally. It should be reserved for the CMOA pages and the like.
On another note I will admit to having never seen KNJ so I have no idea if it's actually lolicon or not.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
And the problem I currently have with TVT is just the opposite - that they started to care about "socially bad" opinions
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
Next time on, Tv Trope E:
Massy:"I'm pregnant, and Tvtropes is the mother"
Heapers:"Le gasp!"
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
Besides, I never said anything overtly crazy like "LET'S KILL ALL THE GAYS!" or "I FAP TO IMAGES OF CHILDREN AND THAT'S OKAY!" or "YAY CASTRATION!", so they wouldn't have touched me.
lay down the law and start weeding out the crazies, but no one at TVT
will ever learn that.
Oh? I think they actually overdid it already, which is pretty much why I'm contemplating leaving
Fast Eddie has been banning people who have been questioning him.
vM, "Talk" threads are really not shitpost-oriented.
(Admin Hat Off)
Y'know I've come to the conclusion that I don't actually hate Something Awful.
I hate that their opinions (and not even all their opinions, just the negative ones) get exported to TVTropes and half the users take them as gospel. It's rather irritating. We did the same thing with ED for awhile.
And y'know, they're entitled to their opinions. It's a free country, internet, whatever, but I don't get why theirs are the "right" ones.
I mean, SA is far, far, far, far FAR from the only site that has taken the piss out of TVTropes (anyone ever heard of Busy Street? Yeah) I don't get why we fixate on them.
It always felt like filling some quota to me.
We like to say we are, but we've never cracked down on bigotry and never will. Like I said in the first place, we need to pick an axis. Are we banning for how nice you are, or how socially acceptable your opinions are? There's no right answer to that, but we need to frickin' pick one.
And you may be right about filling the quota thing. I don't know. I know that when I'm not hearing about how much they apparently hate us, I don't care about SA at all.
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
(shrugs) Not that it matters much. I don't run the site, and noone has any obligation whatsoever to run it in the way I'd prefer.
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
"Being a creep" has historically been tolerated, but should probably fall under dickery.
Finding the whole thing kinda frustrating, tbh. Anything too radical and we're the opinion police. Anything too conservative and we're not acting fast enough. Three mods confer with one another and resolve to ban somebody for advocating mass slaughter, and apparently we're not consistent because somebody got away with that before.
And anyone who thinks that SA thread is just "haha, nerds" needs to reread the Triumphant's posts.
And, I understand the perspective that consistency is something to aim for, I even agree with it, but the fact is that there are areas where we still aren't in agreement and areas where our rules need work, and it's not exactly easy coming to an agreement on the mod board, let alone in Wiki Talk threads with people who will assume the worst of your every ambiguous remark. Not to the extent that the goons do, but still.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Thump counts are considered, personal attack/rudeness thumps moreso than offtopic ones. TBH I worry that too much attention is given to those and too little to post/edit histories, though.