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Suchian Musings And Ramblings About General Designs Involving Notable Estuaries

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  • OdradekOdradek
    My dreams exceed my real life
    Hey Aliroz do you have opinions on the national monument controversy in Utah
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    National monuments prevent development and growth*. They make it so people have much more limited access to natural wonders**.

    National parks are for tourists, for highways and towns and business. This is good and bad, as it develops and ruins, but to a greatly limited and controlled extent. I love national parks, but they do not preserve as much as they could, because they have to have roads and restaurants and gas stations.

    * Good, because you can't un-ruin a place, you can only preserve it.

    ** Good, because people, on the whole, have proven themselves to be unworthy of nice things. This is why documents like the Constitution are under glass and not passed around for people to touch.

    So, how much do I value the natural wonders themselves, as opposed to my ability to visit and enjoy them? How much do I value the present vs the future? How much do I value "the people who could enjoy it now or benefit from economically damaging development and mining" vs "the idea of a wonder being preserved"?

    I'm for the monuments. Utah's economy can take one for the team.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Yeah I was at Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area and I noticed that just because there's a scenic drive there's a crapton of tourists all going where they shouldn't be going in this one part of the NCA (near mile marker 1 I think) and walking all over everything and making new trails where they shouldn't be and so on and so forth.
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    This is why people cannot have nice things.

    There are rules. The sign says, "don't feed the wildlife". Your dang four-year-old tossing cheetoes to chipmunks is breaking the law.

    Don't flipping yell at me for telling your kid to stop. There are RULES.
  • AlirozAliroz
    edited 2016-12-30 01:27:03
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    But apparently rules don't apply and you can just walk on the tundra grass and carve your initials into trees and do whatever you want.


    Now, while we're all being rebellious free spirits, how about I cut the breaks to your car and steal your money, because hey, personal choice! Rules are tyranny and it's okay to do whatever you want, even destroy stuff that doesn't belong to you!
  • Yarrun XIXYarrun XIX
    Whores! we want "poems that kill."
    Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
    guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
    and take their weapons leaving them dead
    It's better to tap the gas line. Easier to pass off as a malfunction rather than malice, and less likely to lead to police investigation. Besides that, yes, 100%
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Obama has judged humanity, and, rightly, has found it unworthy of these lands.
  • AlirozAliroz
    edited 2016-12-30 02:59:02
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Sure, 1,350,000 acres, or about 2109 square miles, out of Utah, is a lot, an amount of land slightly bigger than Norfolk (2074 square miles).

    According to my Atlas, Scotland is 30,918 square miles, making this monument about 6.88% the size of Scotland.

    The Indonesian island Madura is 1,996 square miles.
  • AlirozAliroz
    edited 2016-12-30 23:21:39
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    I will endeavor to not complain about things in this thread.  There was a time in this thread, about a year ago ,when it was about infodumping and sharing the things I was interested in, and showing images, and obscure interests.



    So, without further ado:  Daniel Rabel (1578-1637):  He was a great artist and botanical illustrator.  He also drew neat designs for costumes for plays.    The non-color books are from his lifetime (The botanical work in French has the words by the great french Botanist Vespasian Robin (1579-1662), and the pictures by Rabel). The color pages are from a 1771 book that colorized Rabel's drawings and combined them with the writing of then-modern botanists.  

    The reason why the pagse are on their own is probably that collectors know that a single page of an old book can sell for about a twelfth of what the book is worth if it is in good enough condition.  You can make lots of money by removing all the pages from a book and selling them individually, at the cost of your soul.

    The Special collections at Utah State University has a lot of that type of single-page stuffs.

    image

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • Yarrun XIXYarrun XIX
    Whores! we want "poems that kill."
    Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
    guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
    and take their weapons leaving them dead
    I wonder how common drawing nature stuff like that is today
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    image
    imageimageimageimage
    imageimage
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    image
    image
    image
    There.  That's enough pages, on average, to pay for the cost of the entire book.
  • Yarrun XIXYarrun XIX
    Whores! we want "poems that kill."
    Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
    guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
    and take their weapons leaving them dead
    I really like the ones with the super tiny petals
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Yarrun XIX said:

    I wonder how common drawing nature stuff like that is today

    Not very, because photography.  The real draw of artists like Rabel was that they could do almost photorealistic drawings of plants, and make very precise, detailed images.
  • Yarrun XIXYarrun XIX
    Whores! we want "poems that kill."
    Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
    guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
    and take their weapons leaving them dead
    Ah, figured...

    It's still important that he did this.
  • AlirozAliroz
    edited 2016-12-30 23:40:45
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Yarrun XIX said:

    I really like the ones with the super tiny petals

    Which pages?  

    Also, let's look at some of the insane detail from one of those pages (sadly, the image is upside down):

    image
    I mean, seriously, that's like, magnifying-glass lines.

    And this is the 1771 edition of his work.

    Also, remember that Rabel did this in printed books, which meant woodcuts, which meant literally carving the image into wood so it could be stamped into the paper, which meant that dude must have been insanely good with the eye and hands.

    I mean, look at plate XXV.  Dude carved that into wood!
  • AlirozAliroz
    edited 2016-12-30 23:51:16
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Yarrun XIX said:

    Ah, figured...


    It's still important that he did this.
    Yeah.  Printed books can be mass-produced.  Making such knowledge and quality images available.

    It's good to know that, if electricity suddenly stopped working, stuff like this would still be possible.  It's good to know that such skill is possible, mass-production of botanical works of great beauty and scientific import.

    Like, 1771, that's like, a hundred and ten years before the time of electrification.
  • Yarrun XIXYarrun XIX
    Whores! we want "poems that kill."
    Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
    guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
    and take their weapons leaving them dead
    I meant like the first color print. And #5 in your second post.
  • AlirozAliroz
    edited 2016-12-31 00:00:02
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Ah, pages IV and XXV.

    Incidentally, whoever removed XXV (the one with the tiny purples) did a really precise job, as opposed to the haphazard hackwork in the image just below it. 
  • OdradekOdradek
    My dreams exceed my real life
    image
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Those are some really beautiful illustrations of really beautiful plants.
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Bees are important to me.  Bees work hard, and improve everything around them.  Without them, the plants would die.

    Bees die unnoticed and unremembered, living lives of quiet service.  Very much like the Tzadikim Nistarim.

    Quiet, forgotten saints, I can't give them glory or anything
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Odradek said:

    image

    Oh gosh, that's absolutely perfect!
  • OdradekOdradek
    My dreams exceed my real life
    Aliroz said:

    Odradek said:

    image

    Oh gosh, that's absolutely perfect!
    How goes your travails in Dragon Pass? Have you done a heroquest yet?
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    I have heroquested many times.  I even won on easy mode for the ten-year thing.  All hail Hindala, chief of the Hindalai clan, of the Earthshaker tribe.
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    As is, I have no influence over happenings in Washington D.C. or other important places. The significant events occur hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away.

    I know that, as a citizen, it is my duty to be concerned and aware, to do what I can to help. But what I can do to help is essentially nothing. I feel as though I am slacking in my duty. I want to just ignore the news and politics and spare myself the anxiety of worrying about things I cannot change, but doing that feels like giving up.

    It feels like I am saying, "Sorry everyone, but being aware of the world's ills makes me sad, so I'm going to do nothing because it doesn't involve me.".

    But dang, the inauguration... It's like the election all over again. It's real.
  • Princess AlicePrincess Alice
    You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    I know how you feel.

    If nothing else, though, the massive scale of the Women's March (nationwide!) was very encouraging, even if I couldn't participate.
  • CrystalCrystal
    Munch munch, chomp chomp...
    Hey, friend, you do know there's nothing wrong with that right? If you want to take care of your friends, or even before that, yourself, you need to do what's right for you. And it's important, crucial even, to know what negatively effects and why and what to do about that. It's one long, exhausting, difficult marathon that requires planning and focusing on your well-being.

    Like, that's not to say to throw in the towel if you want to help. I feel you there, and that's super good and I encourage that up until the precise point at which it influences you negatively. After that it's easy to spiral, I've seen and found, which never helps anyone. But really, if you're slacking on yourself then you'll always be, in a way, slacking on your duty given that you're quietly harming yourself in the process.

    Basically, just do what's right and good for you, please. Take it one step at a time. I know I and others here won't judge.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    edited 2017-01-23 04:46:08
    Aliroz said:

    As is, I have no influence over happenings in Washington D.C. or other important places. The significant events occur hundreds, if not thousands, of miles away.

    I know that, as a citizen, it is my duty to be concerned and aware, to do what I can to help. But what I can do to help is essentially nothing. I feel as though I am slacking in my duty. I want to just ignore the news and politics and spare myself the anxiety of worrying about things I cannot change, but doing that feels like giving up.

    It feels like I am saying, "Sorry everyone, but being aware of the world's ills makes me sad, so I'm going to do nothing because it doesn't involve me.".

    But dang, the inauguration... It's like the election all over again. It's real.

    There was actually a bunch of people who participated in an internet campaign of apologizing following the 2004 election: http://sorryeverybody.com/

    But yeah, I sometimes sit here and wonder, what more could I have done.

    But, perhaps, this is an imperfect world.  The road to improving it is a long, hard, and sometimes lonely road that continues endlessly on and on, and it sometimes feels that we have nothing but our ideals guiding us.  But we must and we shall keep walking down this road, and perhaps most importantly of all, we need not walk alone because we're friends, we believe in a better world, and we can work together toward it.  Sometimes, faith is what we need.
  • Yarrun XIXYarrun XIX
    Whores! we want "poems that kill."
    Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
    guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
    and take their weapons leaving them dead
    If you're not in a position to do great things, then the best thing you can do is take care of your little slice of the world, so that when the opportunity comes, you'll be ready

    If you need to sit this out, then you need to sit this out. There's no shame in that.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Yarrun XIX said:

    If you're not in a position to do great things, then the best thing you can do is take care of your little slice of the world, so that when the opportunity comes, you'll be ready


    If you need to sit this out, then you need to sit this out. There's no shame in that.
    Yes.

    Maybe you can volunteer to help out at environmental organizations in your area, for example?
  • OdradekOdradek
    My dreams exceed my real life
    http://www.clickhole.com/article/incredible-comic-perfectly-captures-what-it-would--5305
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    So, the last three months of 2016 were rough, and the months before that. All my stess, Yarrun and Odra tormented, it was all... Wow.

    Everything before May 2016 seems a lifetime ago, a world ago.

    There were bright spots, however, tender mercies.

    Anyways, today I saw the trailer for Shovel Knight: Specter of Torment (I only heard about it today, although it is apparently a month old). It was... Strange. Like a note from someone I used to be, like a bridge to before June 2016, before september 2015.

    I had forgotten how much joy and how much fond frustration I had once had with that.

    Today, I remembered happier times, and was able to look forward to happier times in the future.

    Am I overreacting? Yeah, but what the hey, I needed that trailer.
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    If I had money, time, and computer space, I would totally play the heck out of the Elder Scrolls.
  • AlirozAliroz
    edited 2017-01-31 02:05:49
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Amnyways, after spending an embarrassing amount of time looking up the lore of the games, I really want a game where you play as an Argonian soldier defending the Black Marsh (and, maybe, according to some lore, attempting to invade Oblivion) during the events of that game.
  • OdradekOdradek
    My dreams exceed my real life
    Glorantha the setting where King of Dragon Pass takes place has a lot of interesting lore.

    http://glorantha.tumblr.com/ This Tumblr has a lot of it
  • Salix BabylonikaSalix Babylonika
    https://i.imgur.com/7Iil2JW.png
    Aliroz said:

    If I had money, time, and computer space, I would totally play the heck out of the Elder Scrolls.

    if I ever win the lotto I'll buy you a PS4 and a copy of Skyrim Remastered
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    I have an extra copy of Oblivion in my Steam inventory that I could give to you.  (I bought it years ago wanting to play it but then I heard that Morrowind was better so I wasn't sure whether to gift this to someone or use it myself, and it's sat in my inventory since.)
  • AlirozAliroz
    edited 2017-01-31 02:26:23
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    ^That'd be awesome, but you really don't have to.

    I'm not strapped for the money to buy it so much as I am the time to invest in it.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Aliroz said:

    I'm not strapped for the money to buy it so much as I am the time to invest in it.

    this, so much this, for so many of us
  • OdradekOdradek
    My dreams exceed my real life
    You might like the Half-Life games Aliroz

    They are all about the dangers of invasive species
  • Salix BabylonikaSalix Babylonika
    https://i.imgur.com/7Iil2JW.png
    Odradek said:

    You might like the Half-Life games Aliroz


    They are all about the dangers of invasive species
    this is, technically, very technically, true.
  • KlinotaxisKlinotaxis
    kill living beings
    well it's not an ecology sim but it does have the environment being seriously damaged
  • OdradekOdradek
    My dreams exceed my real life
    image
  • Yarrun XIXYarrun XIX
    Whores! we want "poems that kill."
    Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
    guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
    and take their weapons leaving them dead
    ate too many carrots
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    They said he could be anything, so he decided to be orange.
  • CalicaCalica
    Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    Odradek said:

    You might like the Half-Life games Aliroz


    They are all about the dangers of invasive species
    also about the dangers of invasive species: Kamen Rider Gaim
    (this is kind of a spoiler but it's been like two and a half years and it's not one of the big ones)
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Meanwhile, Metroid Fusion is about the effects of removing an apex predator.
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", is one of the most bizarre, dissonant, and confusing quotes (yes, I know it is wrongly attributed to Voltaire, but it is a quote that somebody said, at some point).

    I mean, if you disapprove of something, wouldn't you not support or defend it, especially at cost to yourself?

    This quote only makes sense if the hypothetical speaker has a very low opinion of his/her ability to judge others, or his/her right to enforce such judgment on others.

    Otherwise, it seems to me that the hypothetical speaker assumes that all speech is worth defending.
  • AlirozAliroz
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Or, perhaps the hypothetical speaker considers the results of evil speech to not be as bad as the results of suppression of speech.

    I guess it hinges on the word, "disapprove".
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