The Trash Heap of the Heapers' Hangout

Obā-san

i have emailed my mom requesting lentil soup~

eeeeeee

Obā-san

Sredni Vashtar

Imipölex G said:

I found it surprising too, for some reason

I find it surprising, but not shocking.

Honestly, Mojave having a beard surprised me more for some reason.

Sredni Vashtar

Sredni Vashtar

Compare/contrast.

Imipolex G

uguu~

Obā-san

i am sad that i cannot see youtube

Sredni Vashtar

Naney said:

i am sad that i cannot see youtube

As am I. I think that you would find my last post rather intriguing.

Imipolex G

OH MY GOD THIS IS THE BEST VIDEO EVER

Obā-san

In the sequence of cultural evolution the emergence of a leisure class

coincides with the beginning of ownership. This is necessarily the case,

for these two institutions result from the same set of economic forces.

In the inchoate phase of their development they are but different

aspects of the same general facts of social structure.

It is as elements of social structure--conventional facts--that leisure

and ownership are matters of interest for the purpose in hand. A

habitual neglect of work does not constitute a leisure class; neither

does the mechanical fact of use and consumption constitute ownership.

The present inquiry, therefore, is not concerned with the beginning

of indolence, nor with the beginning of the appropriation of useful

articles to individual consumption. The point in question is the origin

and nature of a conventional leisure class on the one hand and the

beginnings of individual ownership as a conventional right or equitable

claim on the other hand.

Obā-san

The early differentiation out of which the distinction between a leisure

and a working class arises is a division maintained between men's and

women's work in the lower stages of barbarism. Likewise the earliest

form of ownership is an ownership of the women by the able bodied men

of the community. The facts may be expressed in more general terms, and

truer to the import of the barbarian theory of life, by saying that it

is an ownership of the woman by the man.

There was undoubtedly some appropriation of useful articles before the

custom of appropriating women arose. The usages of existing archaic

communities in which there is no ownership of women is warrant for such

a view. In all communities the members, both male and female, habitually

appropriate to their individual use a variety of useful things; but

these useful things are not thought of as owned by the person who

appropriates and consumes them. The habitual appropriation and

consumption of certain slight personal effects goes on without

raising the question of ownership; that is to say, the question of a

conventional, equitable claim to extraneous things.

Sredni Vashtar

So, conventional definitions of "property" and institutional sexism as intertwined systems. That's an interesting assertion.

Imipolex G

OH MAN THIS IS EVEN BETTER

Sredni Vashtar

You're terrible, Imi. Worse than me.

Obā-san

So, conventional definitions of "property" and institutional sexism as intertwined systems. That's an interesting assertion.

yeah

later on in the book he points out that in many cultures women in upper classes signify their status via things, like foot binding and ridiculous high maintenence fashion and corsets and whatnot, that render them unable to work, essentially saying "we are so well off that we can have members of the household that are literally incapable of work"

Thorstein Veblen was an insightful dude.

Imipolex G

I'm the worst

Obā-san

The ownership of women begins in the lower barbarian stages of culture,

apparently with the seizure of female captives. The original reason

for the seizure and appropriation of women seems to have been their

usefulness as trophies. The practice of seizing women from the enemy

as trophies, gave rise to a form of ownership-marriage, resulting in a

household with a male head. This was followed by an extension of slavery

to other captives and inferiors, besides women, and by an extension of

ownership-marriage to other women than those seized from the enemy.

The outcome of emulation under the circumstances of a predatory life,

therefore, has been on the one hand a form of marriage resting on

coercion, and on the other hand the custom of ownership. The two

institutions are not distinguishable in the initial phase of their

development; both arise from the desire of the successful men to put

their prowess in evidence by exhibiting some durable result of their

exploits. Both also minister to that propensity for mastery which

pervades all predatory communities. From the ownership of women the

concept of ownership extends itself to include the products of their

industry, and so there arises the ownership of things as well as of

persons.

In this way a consistent system of property in goods is gradually

installed. And although in the latest stages of the development,

the serviceability of goods for consumption has come to be the most

obtrusive element of their value, still, wealth has by no means yet lost

its utility as a honorific evidence of the owner's prepotence.

Obā-san

Wherever the institution of private property is found, even in a

slightly developed form, the economic process bears the character of a

struggle between men for the possession of goods. It has been customary

in economic theory, and especially among those economists who adhere

with least faltering to the body of modernised classical doctrines, to

construe this struggle for wealth as being substantially a struggle for

subsistence. Such is, no doubt, its character in large part during

the earlier and less efficient phases of industry. Such is also its

character in all cases where the "niggardliness of nature" is so strict

as to afford but a scanty livelihood to the community in return for

strenuous and unremitting application to the business of getting the

means of subsistence. But in all progressing communities an advance is

presently made beyond this early stage of technological development.

Industrial efficiency is presently carried to such a pitch as to afford

something appreciably more than a bare livelihood to those engaged in

the industrial process. It has not been unusual for economic theory to

speak of the further struggle for wealth on this new industrial basis as

a competition for an increase of the comforts of life,--primarily for

an increase of the physical comforts which the consumption of goods

affords.

The end of acquisition and accumulation is conventionally held to be the

consumption of the goods accumulated--whether it is consumption directly

by the owner of the goods or by the household attached to him and for

this purpose identified with him in theory. This is at least felt to

be the economically legitimate end of acquisition, which alone it is

incumbent on the theory to take account of. Such consumption may of

course be conceived to serve the consumer's physical wants--his

physical comfort--or his so-called higher wants--spiritual, aesthetic,

intellectual, or what not; the latter class of wants being served

indirectly by an expenditure of goods, after the fashion familiar to all

economic readers.

Sredni Vashtar

So, conventional definitions of "property" and institutional sexism as intertwined systems. That's an interesting assertion.

yeah

later on in the book he points out that in many cultures women in upper classes signify their status via things, like foot binding and ridiculous high maintenence fashion and corsets and whatnot, that render them unable to work, essentially saying "we are so well off that we can have members of the household that are literally incapable of work"

Thorstein Veblen was an insightful dude.

I really should read that book in your sig. I had heard about it before, but now that I'm reading excerpts from it, I'm really intrigued.

*...*

You've really moved to the left over the past few years.

Imipolex G

one thing I used to sometimes think about is the concept of "property" and how it's kinda weird and whether a society could exist that did not have it

this went nowhere

Obā-san

eh, not really

i just felt annoyed not running into any conservatives online so i decided to try being one for a while

ah, the infinite flexibility of online life

Yarrun XIX

Naney said:

Man, Naney, where did you even find this, it's perfect.

Obā-san

that said a lot of the libertarian stuff i looked into rubbed off on me, I'm still a big fan of P.J. O'Rourke and have a subscription to the Cato institute newsletter and whatnot

Sredni Vashtar

Naney said:

eh, not really

i just felt annoyed not running into any conservatives online so i decided to try being one for a while

ah, the infinite flexibility of online life

You are a strange and contrary person.

I love that.

Sredni Vashtar

Naney said:

that said a lot of the libertarian stuff i looked into rubbed off on me, I'm still a big fan of P.J. O'Rourke and have a subscription to the Cato institute newsletter and whatnot

I like O'Rourke, actually. He has principles and actually thinks them through. Also, while I find many of the Cato Institute's economic views unsettling, their social positions are pretty sound.

Plus, it's nice to hear someone argue a point that you don't agree with in a way that you can respect.

Obā-san

I swear i'll run away from every home I ever have

So i'll build a new house in every town i pass.

Maybe then I won't always feel lost and trapped.

When I was growing up, i was the smartest kid i knew.

Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids.

All I know is now I feel the opposite.

Like if you dont want to work, then that becomes your job.

Theres a lot of overtime, theres not many days off.

I hope you know that I'm not trying to complain.

It just gets hard to explain to people that I know, or kids who come to shows

that I just dont want to talk about the office today.

'Cause i've watched friends go from being pessimists to work at home archeologists

they dig skin deep, they work every day

i'm burying their arms for a vein or two that maybe they forgot.

And the cops say its a crime for people like me and those friends of mine to want to die

like my neighbor in St. Pete

she's been on house arrest down here

if she tries to leave her yard they'll lock her in a cage for years.

cause sometimes she wants to die.

and she shoots dope when she thinks she could die

and the law they caught her one too many times

shootin dope when she felt like she could die.

We're building a new world, all of my friends and me

its not an exact science yet, but we have the technology.

now all we need is an economy where everybody finally will get enough to eat, even the suburbs

know power's getting too crooked to stand on its own feet for much longer than it has.

So i dont want to kill a cop, 

what i want is neighborhoods where they don't have to get called when the shit goes down

cause our friends, they are enough, and our neighbors have enough.

finally we're enough.

cause our friends, they are enough.

and our neighbors are enough.

and finally we're enough

please help me be enough.

fuck the law cause we're enough

fuck the boss cause we're enough

fuck microsoft cause we're enough

fuck owning stocks cause we're enough

fuck you cause we're enough

fuck moving to brooklyn cause we're enough

fuck the clash cause we're enough

fuck martial stacks cause we're enough

quit what you don't love cause we're enough

live as you make it up cause we're enough

you'll never go without cause we're enough

we'll buy a house cause we're enough

we'll grow some food cause we're enough

we'll slam some dunks cause we're enough

don't be afraid cause we're enough

you'll always be ok because we'll always be enough.

Princess Alice

I need to find more ways to stick it to the man

Obā-san

i recommend finding men and poking them with sticks

Sredni Vashtar

Fun fact: When you call someone a prick, it is actually not the same as calling them a dick, but rather comparing them to a cattle prod.

Alduin

Sredni Vashtar said:

Imipölex G said:

I found it surprising too, for some reason

I find it surprising, but not shocking.

Honestly, Mojave having a beard surprised me more for some reason.

Wait...he has a beard?

I always thought Mojave Music was a stereotypical clean-shaven white nerd who just happened to be in the middle of the Bible Belt. 

Sredni Vashtar

Acererak said:

Sredni Vashtar said:

Imipölex G said:

I found it surprising too, for some reason

I find it surprising, but not shocking.

Honestly, Mojave having a beard surprised me more for some reason.

Wait...he has a beard?

I always thought Mojave Music was a stereotypical clean-shaven white nerd who just happened to be in the middle of the Bible Belt. 

Not the middle of the Bible Belt, strictly speaking, just the hickish part of Pennsylvania.

He's actually only an hour or two away from me, if I'm not mistaken...

Alduin

I actually keep a list of your ethnicities in my head. Here's what I've got so far (feel free to correct me!)

White

• Mojave Music
• glennmagusharvey
• Viani
• JHM
• Naney
• spinor

Black

• Tre
• Anonus
• CA
• Yarrun

Asian

• Kraken

Hispanic

• myself
• Cynicalclock

Aliroz

So, some people have talked about whether or not Napoleon Bonaparte was short.  See, there's the whole thing about him being less than five feet; but the french foot was apparently bigger than the English foot; but the length of a foot has been changed dozens of times, and Napoleon lived before standardized measurements; so basically the measurements are no help and all we have is pictures of him.

And, just our luck, people of the turn of the century had no good idea of perspective.  I mean, just look at the ruins that decorate Gibbon's Rise And Fall Of The Roman Empire.  Either the arches are big enough to fly a blimp through; or the people are all really tiny.  I mean, the pictures of street scenes in Napoleon's time had the same thing; either over-sized streets and buildings or undersized people.



So, all we have to go in is what people said about Napoleon.  And what they said was that he was a rather short guy.

^ Alligator is my ethnicity.  As far as humanizations of myself go, I'm not saying.

Imipolex G

I am half white, half Native American, and all mindscrew

Yarrun XIX

Everyone in France were giant tiny people.

Section42L

I'm another one for the "white" column.

Tanya

You know, I've kind of made it a thing to examine the metaphysical aspects of certain "mentalities" to see if it there exists enough of a knowledge or awareness of it to turn a profit from it. So long as we exist in the mental state that effort and work would be equivalent to metaphysical currency, I would take great care as to know exactly what type of things could draw in this money, and exactly what kind of power they had about them to do such a thing.

Thus have I vowed never to speak lightly or freely of fandoms so long as the thing in question had the power to draw in money. Let be known that I don't actually dislike fans of Twilight: The book series, I merely find the whole experience something akin to going to a fancy restaurant and being served an ordinary ham and cheese on white bread sandwich.

Princess Alice

There's only one thing that I know how to do well

And I've often been told that you only do

What you know how to do well

And that's be you

Be what you're like

Be like yourself

So I'm having a wonderful time

But I'd rather be whistling in the dark

RocketRunner

For record's sake, I'm white, though my father is Filipino.

Princess Alice

I'm biracial but I look white for the most part.

Well, except my facial features, and the texture of my hair.

Salix Babylonika

I am white with a couple distant relatives who are either Japanese or Jewish depending where on the clusterfuck that is our family tree you look.

Obā-san

i did it

i got soup

Imipolex G

yay soup

Anonus

My mother is white, my father is black

Princess Alice

And you're the color of a delicious chocolate milkshake~

Misery

I'm asian and have ancestors that are white.

Yarrun XIX

Central Avenue said:

There's only one thing that I know how to do well

And I've often been told that you only do

What you know how to do well

And that's be you

Be what you're like

Be like yourself

So I'm having a wonderful time

But I'd rather be whistling in the dark

Huh. I didn't know you were into TMBG.

Imipolex G

everyone's a mutt

Anonus

Yarrun said:

Central Avenue said:

There's only one thing that I know how to do well

And I've often been told that you only do

What you know how to do well

And that's be you

Be what you're like

Be like yourself

So I'm having a wonderful time

But I'd rather be whistling in the dark

Huh. I didn't know you were into TMBG.

Doesn't she talk about them fairly often though

Section42L

Anonus said:

Yarrun said:

Central Avenue said:

There's only one thing that I know how to do well

And I've often been told that you only do

What you know how to do well

And that's be you

Be what you're like

Be like yourself

So I'm having a wonderful time

But I'd rather be whistling in the dark

Huh. I didn't know you were into TMBG.

Doesn't she talk about them fairly often though

I helped get her further into TMBG than she already was.