I edited the damned post and two people quoted me already. Goddamnit.
It seemed like there was going to be some kind of argument about how to argue on the Internet with lots of "you don't know shit" shade-throwing going down, but it didn't, and I'm thankful. I... jumped the gun.
i guess i managed to avoid watching an episode with them saying transphobic things or whatever, but the humor i did see was flat, and their analysis was really... mediocre, like "you get a C on this AP English paper" tier?
so the idea of this series being a big deal still kinda baffles me
I don't know if they say transphobic things.
What I do know is that at one point, some people on the Internet Critic thread said they didn't like RLM because of the violence against women stuff, and one dude got so angry about that he went to GBS to whine about it, and people from GBS came into the thread and spammed transphobic shit out of anger at SJWs daring not to like Rich Evans and his sexy laugh.
One of the people who spammed that shit is now a mod.
so now
wait
what is the reason we are supposed to hate RLM then? i thought it was because they said transphobic things
i guess i managed to avoid watching an episode with them saying transphobic things or whatever, but the humor i did see was flat, and their analysis was really... mediocre, like "you get a C on this AP English paper" tier?
so the idea of this series being a big deal still kinda baffles me
I don't know if they say transphobic things.
What I do know is that at one point, some people on the Internet Critic thread said they didn't like RLM because of the violence against women stuff, and one dude got so angry about that he went to GBS to whine about it, and people from GBS came into the thread and spammed transphobic shit out of anger at SJWs daring not to like Rich Evans and his sexy laugh.
One of the people who spammed that shit is now a mod.
so now
wait
what is the reason we are supposed to hate RLM then? i thought it was because they said transphobic things
They have shitty fans, they ruin The Discourse, and they are shit shit shit shit shit shit also apparently they say transphobic things too, according to that one former fan.
i guess i managed to avoid watching an episode with them saying transphobic things or whatever, but the humor i did see was flat, and their analysis was really... mediocre, like "you get a C on this AP English paper" tier?
so the idea of this series being a big deal still kinda baffles me
I don't know if they say transphobic things.
What I do know is that at one point, some people on the Internet Critic thread said they didn't like RLM because of the violence against women stuff, and one dude got so angry about that he went to GBS to whine about it, and people from GBS came into the thread and spammed transphobic shit out of anger at SJWs daring not to like Rich Evans and his sexy laugh.
One of the people who spammed that shit is now a mod.
so now
wait
what is the reason we are supposed to hate RLM then? i thought it was because they said transphobic things
Yeah, this seems more like another argument in favour of my impression that every part of SA that isn't the Book Barn or the Music forum is to be avoided at all costs rather than an indictment of RLM per se...
I edited the damned post and two people quoted me already. Goddamnit.
It seemed like there was going to be some kind of argument about how to argue on the Internet with lots of "you don't know shit" shade-throwing going down, but it didn't, and I'm thankful. I... jumped the gun.
Happens, ferret.
As for the ferret: There are other good subforums, and threads on SA beyond those two, it's just more likely to result in wading through - or in my case, skimming - dreck than those two... and probably others I'm forgetting. I used to read a lot of SA, though now I go back-and-forth on it.
RLM doesn't allow for respectful exchange of perspectives. The average RLM fan responds to people dissing their idols or disagreeing with their idols by shouting memes and occasionally transphobic slurs until the dissenter shuts up.
Like okay there is nothing I can do to fix this I should just shut up now
I'm sorry you end up seeing stuff you dislike, and don't really care to comment beyond that far as your behavior outside of HH goes. I'm also thoroughly lacking investment in RLM. But, Myr, would you please try to not bring it up here, at least not in this fashion?
the thing is. it's an internet review show of some kind. you have this... vitriol. anger about it. and I know people get like that on the internet, but you, myrmidon, are the only person I actually know who acts that way. so it's... distressing?
like I don't really care what your reasons are, I don't think, because even if it was really a terrible show, like heil honey I'm home or the like, I couldn't use that, personally, to justify the anger you've shown. because the norm for me would be walking away. like I dunno. I know you don't go looking for it or whatever, usually, but... my parents like the big bang theory. I really don't, I hate hearing about it, I hate being told I'm so and so character, so what do I do? I kind of shrug it off. or leave for a bit. this is inconvenient, it would be nice if it didn't air, but...
and then you, like, I vaguely remember you making death threats? I might be making that up, but, it's sort of the tone I hear from you now. pretty much whenever red letter thing comes up I just mentally brace, like here's this 4chan quality talking about internet things happening, and I just avoid it in the same way.
See, the thing is, I can't condemn Myrmidon for his hate towards RLM, or for Centie for how she reacts to certain issues of personal rights. There are things that really set me off, what right have I to judge other people for the same?
And, see, it's especially annoying for me when, like, my brother can complain and worry about Ted Cruz or Donald Trump, and my dad will talk to him and have a conversation with him about it, but when I talk about the things that set me off, I'm being irrational and should stop.
Like, I know that there are actual reasons why some things are worth getting upset about and others aren't, but it really, really feels like you guys, my family, and all reasonable people are just arbitrarily setting some issues as important and others as not.
That changes nothing. RLM fans are just fans, but the identification with social justice and activism is an array of movements. If RLM fans act like arseholes, the outcome is nearly irrelevant. The more disappointing outcome occurs when those claiming to have the moral high ground fail to behave as though they have the moral high ground. Ever heard the "It's not my job to educate you on..." line?
It is never anyone's job to educate you on anything in an online argument.
I sympathise with your frustrations, but that leads nowhere. Following that principle ensures that online disagreements must always be a collision of two opinions without supporting evidence or reasoning, so no-one is ever given incentive to modify their way of thinking. This is why the SJW movement can't tolerate ideological impurity; guided by such absolute principles, the most absolutist individuals eventually attain social authority, and therefore determine the degree of ideological adherence necessary for social inclusion.
That isn't to say that social justice or activism are wrong. Far from it. But I can't agree with means that often end up alienating individuals who might eventually come around, if only matters were explained to them well enough. That also means dealing with the burden of belligerents, and while I can easily see how draining that is, the non-explanatory position paints each dissenter with the same brush.
Which is the sort of behaviour I thought social justice movements were supposed to be against, of all things. Whenever I hear or read someone make a statement, and then their following claim is that they don't have to support it, I interpret that as denigration of the dissenter because the positions here are not even; one side is expected to explain themselves and the other is not. It's a brute force argument strategy based on condescension rather than an exchange of understandings.
I understand the frustration and anxiety of trying to explain oneself, only for that explanation to go unheeded in the face of stubbornness, and without a hint of compromise or understanding. That doesn't mean a non-explanatory approach is the constructive measure to take, though. If you want change, but refuse to engage with its mechanisms, then it won't happen.
Alex, some serious shit went down and I already warned you and Jane about carrying on in that vein because things were already getting chaotic enough. So please: Stop now.
None of us need to be this worked up, especially not about something as ephemeral as RLM.
I include myself in this since I was thinking some very nasty thoughts in private about this whole line of discussion as it was going on. If Myr would like to talk to me about that so we could reach a resolution, my PM box is open.
I have no stake in that particular debate anyway. I never watch movies, why would I watch a Youtube series about them.
I personally find some enjoyment in researching stuff that I personally have no interest in experiencing. This tendency is literally the only reason that I know anything beyond cursory information on Harry Potter
I have no stake in that particular debate anyway. I never watch movies, why would I watch a Youtube series about them.
I personally find some enjoyment in researching stuff that I personally have no interest in experiencing. This tendency is literally the only reason that I know anything beyond cursory information on Harry Potter
Alex, some serious shit went down and I already warned you and Jane about carrying on in that vein because things were already getting chaotic enough. So please: Stop now.
I will stop, but I'd like to clarify that longposting isn't indicative of aggression for me; anyone who knows me from IJBM (or even back as far as the TVT days) will know that longposting is halfway a default for me. I don't intend any particular disrespect towards Jane, but just like anyone else, I can be expected to respond to substantial points of contention.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Update on the car situation: I took the battery to AutoZone, and they tested it and found it's ok. They also charged it, and when Dad and I put it back in the car it started right up.
So...I dunno what all that was about, but I am glad I didn't have to spring for a new battery.
That changes nothing. RLM fans are just fans, but the identification with social justice and activism is an array of movements. If RLM fans act like arseholes, the outcome is nearly irrelevant. The more disappointing outcome occurs when those claiming to have the moral high ground fail to behave as though they have the moral high ground. Ever heard the "It's not my job to educate you on..." line?
It is never anyone's job to educate you on anything in an online argument.
I sympathise with your frustrations, but that leads nowhere. Following that principle ensures that online disagreements must always be a collision of two opinions without supporting evidence or reasoning, so no-one is ever given incentive to modify their way of thinking. This is why the SJW movement can't tolerate ideological impurity; guided by such absolute principles, the most absolutist individuals eventually attain social authority, and therefore determine the degree of ideological adherence necessary for social inclusion.
That isn't to say that social justice or activism are wrong. Far from it. But I can't agree with means that often end up alienating individuals who might eventually come around, if only matters were explained to them well enough. That also means dealing with the burden of belligerents, and while I can easily see how draining that is, the non-explanatory position paints each dissenter with the same brush.
Which is the sort of behaviour I thought social justice movements were supposed to be against, of all things. Whenever I hear or read someone make a statement, and then their following claim is that they don't have to support it, I interpret that as denigration of the dissenter because the positions here are not even; one side is expected to explain themselves and the other is not. It's a brute force argument strategy based on condescension rather than an exchange of understandings.
I understand the frustration and anxiety of trying to explain oneself, only for that explanation to go unheeded in the face of stubbornness, and without a hint of compromise or understanding. That doesn't mean a non-explanatory approach is the constructive measure to take, though. If you want change, but refuse to engage with its mechanisms, then it won't happen.
Alex, first of all, I appreciate that you put a lot of effort and thought into your posts, but naney is right, very large posts that take forever to type don't really mesh with how conversation happens here. I am now going to be an enormous hypocrite by making one of those, by my standards anyway.
What I will say is that I am very rarely trying to have a debate about something when I'm having a conversation online. In fact the assumption that I am (and this is not a you thing, lots of people seem to consider any conversation in which two or more people disagree a "debate") sort of confusing.
There are lots of reasons I would want to talk to people. To learn something, to exchange opinions, to express sympathy, etc. Sometimes I even am up for a debate, but I'll usually say as much. I don't want every conversation about myself to be political and that's kind of the crux of the issue. Something cis people (and straight people, and men, and I imagine if you asked any racial minority they'd say the same about white people) do not understand is that having your very identity politicized against your will is extremely frustrating.
Before I continue, let me make it clear that this is not an issue with either 'side' of the so-called culture war. I've seen people you'd describe as SJWs do it too, some of them trans themselves, there is an immense pressure to be "on" at all times. To have every possible counterargument anyone could ever have--no matter how inane--memorized and to have a corresponding rebuttal ready to go. This is what people disparagingly refer to as "the discourse" sometimes.
So in short I really don't consider it my job to educate any given cis person on any particular aspect of my life as a pre-op trans individual, and most of the time I don't like to talk about it, because it makes me feel shitty. It's not an argument to shut down a debate because I don't want a debate in the first place, because having to defend my identity from people who don't understand transgenderism is tedious and boring and again, see the "it makes me feel shitty" part. If you understand this (and claim to) then I assume you'd also understand why I don't like having to do it all the time. I don't consider myself an activist, and I will not let people consider me one just because I am a minority.
Debates require two people, and there is a particular sort of person who will try to make you their verbal sparring partner regardless of whether you want them to or not. I find this unwelcome in almost all situations.
If you want to debate formally about things, I am totally willing to when I feel up to it. But not impromptu, and certainly not here. I hope you understand.
I have no stake in that particular debate anyway. I never watch movies, why would I watch a Youtube series about them.
I personally find some enjoyment in researching stuff that I personally have no interest in experiencing. This tendency is literally the only reason that I know anything beyond cursory information on Harry Potter
This can be me too.
Also: see how many people like the W40K lore without ever playing the war game which honestly sounds like not a lot of fun.
I have no stake in that particular debate anyway. I never watch movies, why would I watch a Youtube series about them.
I personally find some enjoyment in researching stuff that I personally have no interest in experiencing. This tendency is literally the only reason that I know anything beyond cursory information on Harry Potter
This can be me too.
Also: see how many people like the W40K lore without ever playing the war game which honestly sounds like not a lot of fun.
I spend a good chunk of my spare time listening to MTG podcasts despite not playing mtg
Comments
like I don't really care what your reasons are, I don't think, because even if it was really a terrible show, like heil honey I'm home or the like, I couldn't use that, personally, to justify the anger you've shown. because the norm for me would be walking away. like I dunno. I know you don't go looking for it or whatever, usually, but... my parents like the big bang theory. I really don't, I hate hearing about it, I hate being told I'm so and so character, so what do I do? I kind of shrug it off. or leave for a bit. this is inconvenient, it would be nice if it didn't air, but...
and then you, like, I vaguely remember you making death threats? I might be making that up, but, it's sort of the tone I hear from you now. pretty much whenever red letter thing comes up I just mentally brace, like here's this 4chan quality talking about internet things happening, and I just avoid it in the same way.
maybe just me.
And, see, it's especially annoying for me when, like, my brother can complain and worry about Ted Cruz or Donald Trump, and my dad will talk to him and have a conversation with him about it, but when I talk about the things that set me off, I'm being irrational and should stop.
Like, I know that there are actual reasons why some things are worth getting upset about and others aren't, but it really, really feels like you guys, my family, and all reasonable people are just arbitrarily setting some issues as important and others as not.
I personally don't like this kind of thing about anything, though.
also really dude ease up on the textwalls, they really don't work with the flow of conversation on this forum at all
I'm going to try to set up safeguards so I don't do this again and work on changing.
no offence or anything
the levity is appreciated actually
I include myself in this since I was thinking some very nasty thoughts in private about this whole line of discussion as it was going on. If Myr would like to talk to me about that so we could reach a resolution, my PM box is open.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Also: see how many people like the W40K lore without ever playing the war game which honestly sounds like not a lot of fun.
(*applauds your good post*)