I don't think that this person has actually read more than a tiny handful of Penny Arcade strips. Sure, the creators can be asshats, but that doesn't really reflect on their ability to set up a gag, which is decent.
True enough. But they can be, and are more frequently than most other notable webcomic people.
Honestly, I don't particularly like bashing on or whinging about stuff like this because I have better things to do and it can be grating to listen to. But I am not going to tiptoe around stating my opinion if it is negative.
You can donate to good charities and still act ridiculously. Like, yes, that is nice, but that doesn't utterly negate the fact that they see no issue with their rape jokes or transphobic comments.
^^^ That's a bit of an exaggeration. As far as I can tell, they are not particularly bad people. Most people do equally dumb, nasty things in their lives, and equally decent, generous ones. The problem is that they do not confine that to their personal lives, and react poorly when that incurs a negative response. It is understandable. Not great, but understandable.
^ Strictly speaking, the initial joke itself was quite the opposite of a rape joke. Their reaction to criticism of it, on the other hand, was tasteless and stupid.
You can donate to good charities and still act ridiculously. Like, yes, that is nice, but that doesn't utterly negate the fact that they see no issue with their rape jokes
The commonly cited example for this was not, in fact, a rape joke. It was a strip that mentioned rape. Some people viewed it as flippant or in bad taste, but it wasn't a rape joke.
Also, they didn't just donate to Child's Play, they made it. And donated significant amounts of money to it out of pocket.
Also, aside from the dickwolves controversy which was the result of enormous amounts of stupidity from the critics and the fact that Tycho and Gabe didn't do a very good job stopping any of the controversy, and the transphobic comments, which was literally a Twitter argument lasting an hour that led to three public apologies and numerous private ones, I can't really think of any controversies related to PA.
convinced that 95% of people who try to argue against the use of trigger warnings are just too lazy or inconsiderate to use them and are just trying to make excuses for it
Or maybe you have to recognize that while some things warrant triggers other things you have to sort of live and deal with cause that’s life. In fact, hiding yourself away from triggers only makes it worse cause you never face the phobia or trauma and heal If an everyday occurrence kind of thing triggers you so badly you go into a panic attack cause of it you need help and it’s on you to get it, not anyone else.
I have an extreme fear of thunderstorms. One of the most traumatic events of my life happened in the middle of one, and there are a host of many different reasons why I hate them. I won’t drive or leave the house on days it looks overcast, and will panic and hide if I hear thunder. My anxiety level ticks up if they’re in a tv show or something that I’m watching. I just. Hate them.
But that isn’t healthy. The only way to possibly work it out isn’t by running away. I have to get better and I have to face that fear. And yeah there’s nothing wrong with having a safe place but honestly, tumblr is a website that streams content to all of our followers instantly and you have no control over it if they tag it or don’t, so you’re going to end up seeing it no matter what. If you’re looking for a safe place it isn’t necessarily wise to turn to tumblr, you’re looking for it in the wrong place.
In all honesty, you know what? Maybe it’s actually a good place to START dealing with your trigger— from the safety of your computer, where you know it can’t actually hurt you. Breathe and tell yourself “this is just a post, I’m safe and it’s okay.”
If you’re really concerned about making tumblr a safe place maybe you should first work on not getting mad at people and twisting their words or accuse them of being lazy and inconsiderate. Just cause someone doesn’t cater to your, my, or anyone else’s problems that doesn’t mean they’re inconsiderate people.
pee
On an unrelated note, when I complain about the Social Justice community
What I was talking about was the complete and utter dismissiveness shown.
I honestly didn't see that much to disagree with in the large middle post. Like, having a safe space is all well and good, and no one can "just" get over triggers, but you have to desensitize yourself to it eventually.
Yes, I'm pretty sure this is joking about people being raped, slaves no less. Like not even strictly speaking, they said it was a rape joke, and Tycho thinks pulling the merchandise was a bad choice. And yes, I know only Gabe commented, though I do wonder why no one else from Penny Arcade saw an issue with it, but I won't comment about them since they didn't make the comments. Where reacting badly is concerned, I get that, it happens, I'm not necessarily faulting him for not responding perfectly with finesse and grace. And I'm sure as sugar not saying that the people that were sending death threats were in the clear, because that's just not a thing you should do at all. It also wasn't literally just a Twitter argument lasting an hour, a fair bit longer, with the hilarious comment that he should be called Batman if people want to be called what they want. His actual apology is understandable, even if I still don't approve of it (which, yes, happened in the past which is why I only actually state my distaste with it during conversations like this one).
Now, to make my position clear and respond to your other points: I said act ridiculously, not be an utterly horrible disgusting piece of garbage (even if I disagree with his position, though he's stated he'll keep quiet so whatever). I don't think that, though it doesn't sit well with me. I am not faulting the creation of Child's Play, or the donation to The Trevor Project, because those are all good things, as are the facts that he did send out the emails and make phone calls, nor do I expect him to automatically change his views on gender and sex so quickly (or at all), so whatever considering it's over with.
Yes, I'm pretty sure this is joking about people being raped, slaves no less.
Well, not exactly. The comic is a not-so-subtle jab at the fact that certain RPGs function on mechanics that encourage avaricious and morally reprehensible behaviour in situations where a humane response would normally be expected. The point is: You see someone in horrible agony and terror that you could end, but it is not in your "rational self-interest," so you pass on it. This is unforgivable in real life, but certain games all but require it for success. Eking humour out of it in that way is questionable, and they could have left that part out and still made a solid point, but the punchline is not "rape is hilarious," but "the double standard of in-game sociopathy is absurd."
"They're getting raped" isn't the joke. The joke is that certain game mechanics send very unfortunate messages. I agree that the bit about rape was pointless, though. It could have been removed and the joke would have stayed the same. But overall I really don't understand the massive controversy.
I'm not saying that there is no reason to be offended. I'm just saying that there is a difference between mentioning rape in a joke about something else and actually using rape as a punchline.
I'm not really too fond of Penny Arcade, by the way. It's pretty standard fare with good moments.
I have never actually like, tried to read Penny Arcade at length.
They are often mad about the gaming industry and I am also often mad about the gaming industry so I imagine I'd find at least something funny in there.
I'm not saying that there is no reason to be offended. I'm just saying that there is a difference between mentioning rape in a joke about something else and actually using rape as a punchline.
I'm not really too fond of Penny Arcade, by the way. It's pretty standard fare with good moments.
The problem is, they could have used any other heinous act to make the same point. Murder, torture, whatever. But instead, they chose rape. Why?
I'm not saying that there is no reason to be offended. I'm just saying that there is a difference between mentioning rape in a joke about something else and actually using rape as a punchline.
I'm not really too fond of Penny Arcade, by the way. It's pretty standard fare with good moments.
The problem is, they could have used any other heinous act to make the same point. Murder, torture, whatever. But instead, they chose rape. Why?
This is why I said that there was reason to be offended. The point was probably to come up with something repulsive and horrible to the point of absurdity, but that does not really excuse it. But that kind of decision is not morally equivalent to making an actual rape joke.
i was gonna say because bad people don't go around torturing people for fun but that is what they do in video games and also real life so fuck it
The way that a person who actually does awful things "for fun" processes doing those things is pretty different from how a normal person processes either pretending to do awful things for fun or doing actual, innocuous things for fun, but that's kind of irrelevant here. Point is, violence in humour is a difficult thing to do right, and rape and the like are to be generally avoided therein for many reasons, regardless of whether that is the punchline or not.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
To be fair about the two structuring the joke differently, this was actually the THIRD time they've used the "r" word in a gag, but it's the first time they got blasted for it.
This type of humor was actually used and probably approved of by the internet as a whole mostly until just the last few years.
So, yes, they COULD have structured the joke differently, just like every other web-comic creator who didn't know they just walked into a mine field could have.
I'm not saying I approve of the follow-up, because honestly, I kinda don't, but if people are offended by this they're going to probably find calmly informing web-cartoonists of the shift in attitude is going to net results then more angry or passive-aggressive tactics that may only get the web-cartoonists to up the their bets.
You can donate to good charities and still act ridiculously. Like, yes, that is nice, but that doesn't utterly negate the fact that they see no issue with their rape jokes or transphobic comments.
Oh come on. Gabe was clearly acting more out of ignorance than anything, and he even apologized formally. Maybe he deserved disgust and contempt then, but he doesn't deserve it now.
You can donate to good charities and still act ridiculously. Like, yes, that is nice, but that doesn't utterly negate the fact that they see no issue with their rape jokes or transphobic comments.
Oh come on. Gabe was clearly acting more out of ignorance than anything, and he even apologized formally. Maybe he deserved disgust and contempt then, but he doesn't deserve it now.
Except every time he opens his mouth, something else comes out. This is hardly a one off of his. There's a reason people have started boycotting PAX.
You can donate to good charities and still act ridiculously. Like, yes, that is nice, but that doesn't utterly negate the fact that they see no issue with their rape jokes or transphobic comments.
Oh come on. Gabe was clearly acting more out of ignorance than anything, and he even apologized formally. Maybe he deserved disgust and contempt then, but he doesn't deserve it now.
Except every time he opens his mouth, something else comes out. This is hardly a one off of his. There's a reason people have started boycotting PAX.
OK, here are all the incidents I'm aware of.
1. Dickwolves. Yeah, OK. He makes a comic strip about rape. Then he apologizes in the next comic. Things get kind of out of hand, though. I agree that he wasn't the most mature person about it (okay, he acted like a fucking third grader-"Team Rape" is just asking for trouble), but you also need to understand that the people who were complaining weren't exactly paragons of nobility either.
2. He makes a couple of comments about how transwomen aren't real women. I was there, saw the whole thing. He seemed to me like he was genuinely misguided. Hell, he apologized for it and even donated money to some transgendered group to make up for it.
Sometimes people can make mistakes, and that's OK. He doesn't seem to me like a genuinely bigoted person, he's more naive than anything.
Did we really just have over a page of discussion about whether some random web comic artist is or is not a complete jackass? More specifically, isn't the argument less whether or not at this point than a question of degree? I mean, really, guys. Don't make me pull the THIS IS STUPID card.
You can donate to good charities and still act ridiculously. Like, yes, that is nice, but that doesn't utterly negate the fact that they see no issue with their rape jokes or transphobic comments.
Oh come on. Gabe was clearly acting more out of ignorance than anything, and he even apologized formally. Maybe he deserved disgust and contempt then, but he doesn't deserve it now.
Except every time he opens his mouth, something else comes out. This is hardly a one off of his. There's a reason people have started boycotting PAX.
OK, here are all the incidents I'm aware of.
1. Dickwolves. Yeah, OK. He makes a comic strip about rape. Then he apologizes in the next comic. Things get kind of out of hand, though. I agree that he wasn't the most mature person about it (okay, he acted like a fucking third grader-"Team Rape" is just asking for trouble), but you also need to understand that the people who were complaining weren't exactly paragons of nobility either.
2. He makes a couple of comments about how transwomen aren't real women. I was there, saw the whole thing. He seemed to me like he was genuinely misguided. Hell, he apologized for it and even donated money to some transgendered group to make up for it.
Sometimes people can make mistakes, and that's OK. He doesn't seem to me like a genuinely bigoted person, he's more naive than anything.
3. Keeping allegations of sexual harassment by a PAX Enforcer towards other Enforcers quiet. (Which, when it came out into the open, he maintained was the right thing to do.)
4. His reaction to the Tentacle Bento kickstarter being pulled.
5. Allowing a panel at PAX about how we should ignore sexism in games because they're supposed to be about fun. (Granted, this one is on all their heads.)
Mike has shown again and again that he doesn't get it. And there's only so far you can push "he's just naive, you guys!"
^ Except he's not "some random webcomic artist". At all. He's a major figure in the games industry, and as such, a massive influence on it.
^^ And yet despite his pull, he is still an outside figure rather than a developer. Perhaps one could see him as a pundit or a financier, but in terms of dictating content rather than culture, he is not the be-all and end-all.
But in any case, this is not the place for that argument. Other than tangential relevance to a single Tumblr post, this is not about the site or anything on it. It is about personal outrage and defensiveness and I would rather we didn't get into that kind of behaviour here. It tends to degenerate quickly into something very ugly or, in this case, tedious and repetitive.
Is PAX going on or something? Is that why Tumblr is so pissed off at it?
To be fair, PA has gotten a game series made for them, but that's kinda it, I guess? I know, PAX, yeah, but they probably don't have that much pull on the industry.
Oh come on. Gabe was clearly acting more out of ignorance than anything, and he even apologized formally. Maybe he deserved disgust and contempt then, but he doesn't deserve it now.
Admittedly I forgot to add in the ignorance part while commenting up there, but yes, I did basically say all of those things. I'm not disagreeing.
If someone wants to start a thread about bad trends in video game culture, they are free to do it, but please, stop cluttering this thread. It has seen enough of this sort of long-winded drama.
Is PAX going on or something? Is that why Tumblr is so pissed off at it?
To be fair, PA has gotten a game series made for them, but that's kinda it, I guess? I know, PAX, yeah, but they probably don't have that much pull on the industry.
It ended pretty recently.
Personally I agree with Sredni here, let's move the conversation somewhere else if we must continue to have it at all.
Anyone with any questions to field (they don't necessarily have to be about magic or college, ask anything) would be much appreciated. Spreading the word so the blog gets a lot of followers (and therefore more questions, and therefore therefore, more fuel to keep running) would be even more appreciated.
I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT STAND THAT FUCKING A LOT OF TUMBLR HATES MACKLEMORE.
BECAUSE HONESTLY, HE WAS EVERYTHING THEY WERE COMPLAINING WHITE PEOPLE AREN’T AND NOW THAT THEY GOT A FUCKING ROLEMODEL THEY SUDDENLY COMPLAIN?????? BECAUSE HE’S WHITE?????
Macklemore grew up privileged, yes, but he understands the inequality and the disturbing gap between rich and poor. He has a song called White Privilege:
"Hiphop started off in a block that I’ve never been to
To counter act a struggle that I’ve never even been through
If I think I understand just because I flow too
That means I’m not keeping it true, nope.”
ALSO
"But as I’m blessed with the privilege, they’re still left with the scars"
AND HAVE YOU HEARD HIS SONG CLAIMING THE CITY???
"I grew up on Capitol Hill,
With two parents and two cars.
They had a beautiful marriage, we even had a swing set in our yard.
My mom didn’t have a job, because my dad made enough money that we could live comfortably and he could support us.
Now, he commute to Tacoma, so we knew we be good.
But then I realized everybody looked just like me in my neighborhood.
I go to school, which was diverse.
But indeed us, I got sandwiches and Capri Suns well my friends ate their free lunch.
It’s crazy trying to look back, cause when I was growing up
I didn’t understand the fact was there’s something called a social status.
And my black friends wanted my financial bracket.
And then my city’s divided,
From neighborhood to neighborhood
We’re polarized but we claim we’re progressive.
The police shoot in the hood but never once in my residence.
As a white person been shot at we’d stopped in a Lexus.
And to think that we have claimed that so much has changed”
OH GOODNESS ME, HE’S SUCH AN ASSHOLE. HE’S SO PRIVILEGED GOD.
HOW ABOUT A WAKE???
"Don’t wanna be that white dude, million man marchin’
Fighting for our freedom that my people stole
Don’t wanna make all my white fans uncomfortable
But you don’t even have a fuckin’ song for radio
Why you out here talkin race, tryin’ to save the fuckin’ globe
Don’t get involved with the causes in mind
White privilege, white guilt, at the same damn time
So we just party like it’s nineteen ninety nine
Celebrate the ignorance while these kids keep dying.”
Comments
Yeesh.
They are often mad about the gaming industry and I am also often mad about the gaming industry so I imagine I'd find at least something funny in there.
bee sirius 4eva
they should really get rid of the post limit
its annoying to wait
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
It's kind of like how you can't look away from a train wreck.
4. His reaction to the Tentacle Bento kickstarter being pulled.
5. Allowing a panel at PAX about how we should ignore sexism in games because they're supposed to be about fun. (Granted, this one is on all their heads.)
Mike has shown again and again that he doesn't get it. And there's only so far you can push "he's just naive, you guys!"
^ Except he's not "some random webcomic artist". At all. He's a major figure in the games industry, and as such, a massive influence on it.
most webcomics are boring
To be fair, PA has gotten a game series made for them, but that's kinda it, I guess? I know, PAX, yeah, but they probably don't have that much pull on the industry.
Personally I agree with Sredni here, let's move the conversation somewhere else if we must continue to have it at all.
Anyone with any questions to field (they don't necessarily have to be about magic or college, ask anything) would be much appreciated. Spreading the word so the blog gets a lot of followers (and therefore more questions, and therefore therefore, more fuel to keep running) would be even more appreciated.
I might make a thread about it too.