Discussion of TV Tropes

Ace Rimmer

^ (*Sigh*) Aren't you tired of mods going in and editing his name out of your posts?

No, no I am not

Obā-san

So you should win the argument because you will not concede your loss, which is obvious to everyone?

millercross

@Inane: Mocking is not attacking the arguments whatsoever. It's attacking the person.

you need to undertand that you =/= your arguments, regardless of how much you believe in them.

@Juan: Attacking a person is not being rational at all. That's the opposite. If you want to be rational, either don't reply or only directly prove the arguments wrong. You don't need any mocking or flaming to do that whatsoever. There is no "if", you're either flaming/mocking them or you're not.

Like I said, false dichotomies

millercross

Or you could say nothing at all. It's a more rational solution. Mocking is not about the argument, it's just mocking the person completely. Honestly, people just can't, you know, ignore it and reply to other things. Why is this a terrible solution comparing to attack people?

Because nobody has attacked you and during this whole discussion you have claimed that we have intended to offend you in order to make us somehow look as irrational, instead of actually addressing any of our points.

Irene

Nope. The only way to mock an argument is to mock how a person is presenting them, which mocks the person instead. There is no excuse.

If you refuse to be rational, then you're not being any better no matter how much you think you are.

@Inane: Let them have their false victory. No skin off your back.

^ Bullcrap. I addressed them just fine. I refuse to believe mocking or flaming is anything short of being a dick.

millercross

Nope. The only way to mock an argument is to mock how a person is presenting them, which mocks the person instead. There is no excuse.

that doesn't make much sense as it implies that arguments are all about presentation. 

Obā-san

False victory? You have definitely lost this argument.

Irene

Except you're still mocking them regardless.

And yes, a good argument IS about presentation. If the presentation is terrible, the argument will fall flat no matter how many good points you have. Why do you think I don't take any flaming/mocking arguments seriously? Because the presentation sucks.

Your points should be all that matters no matter what. So only put those up. All that other stuff does not help your situation whatsoever. No flaming will ever prove you right. All it does is piss people off and nothing more.

Obā-san

Your points were and are all that maters in this argument, and they have fallen like dominoes.

Justice4243

This is getting silly.

Cool down period, AT least, for now.

Justice4243

Cool down period over. 

You may continue with your regularly scheduled discussion.

Obā-san

NO.


....let us discuss something else.

Justice4243

Not a problem, check the activity page.

Obā-san

Oh.

Salix Babylonika

Well that's depressing. :(

Misery

I see.

Unknown

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Misery

Nope but I remember an article about a thread I posted in. It had something to do with genderbending. :3

millercross

Good to know we solve problems quickly, then. 

Anyway, I think the whole "RPs getting pages" thing is something that should be moved to either the sandbox namespace or user pages (Which are sandboxes, anyway)

Morven

Yeah, agreed.

Obā-san

Seconded.

Princess Alice

To be honest, I found the creation of a Trash Heap page somewhat amusing, because it was something that thread's old regulars had joked about multiple times but never actually thought to do.

Then some of the thread's newer regulars made the page and it lasted like one day.

millercross

Yeah, agreed.

is there no way of actually doing this, Morven? Like a TRS thread or something?

Morven

All the ones I knew of had been deleted.  If there are any more, let me know.

millercross

ah. Haven't been trawling the wiki, so I didn't know. 

Salix Babylonika

I think Forum RP pages are fine as long as they are in a Forum RP page section.

Though WAOA's page really needs trimming, cutting, or something.

TVT has pages on other sites' RPs too.

Morven

Forum RPs are arguable in terms of being published works, in my opinion.  Sure, you can read back through them -- but nobody does.  They are read by the players only.

Manly McMacho

I hate how I always forget this thread exists, then I'm catching up and see something I want to discuss but it's already like four pages passed. :C

Morven

I don't see what's wrong with revisiting it if you want to talk about it.  

Manly McMacho

Eh, I would but it'd just be a lot of pointless bitching. I mean, I know that's all this thread is anyway but I'm sure doing it so blatantly would be frowned upon.

Obā-san

Amusing Tidbit: The SA thread has been going on about a list of fetishes that used to be on a troper's troper page for a two good pages now. It's like hyenas bickering over the last bit of gristle attached to a bone.


Oh, and a bad piece of troper writing. Combine those, and you have the last 10 pages.


Beyond pathetic.

Manly McMacho

Wait that's some pretty blatant pointless bitching. WELL HERE I GO DERP

Why the fuck were DYRE and evilneko allowed to stay on TVT / IJBM as long as they were?

Obā-san

(*Shrug*)


Didn't know they were gone from IJBMII.

Manly McMacho

I'm not sure if they are, actually. And now that I'm not there I really don't care.

Obā-san

I never was there.

Viani

Why the fuck were DYRE and evilneko allowed to stay on TVT / IJBM as long as they were?

Because even though they are exactly the kind of "blatant anime-loving pedophiles" that SA are pointing out, the fact that one is harmless and submissive, and the other is too naive, disorganized and aimless to be harmful, is the reason why they can generally slip under the radar, quite a lot. I would prefer if the staff focused on more harmful problems (such as the TRS crisis) than vulture around on DYRE and evilneko to justify banning them on grounds of Loliconidas.

Manly McMacho

The fuck is the TRS crisis

Viani

I think it was discussed in Vainglorious Detail on Page 36-40 somewhere.

Otherwords, it's run and enforced by stubborn fan wankers and weird and unhelpful shit is almost impossible to move or delete.

Obā-san

And also, IIRC neither was ever banned, they just left.

Manly McMacho

^^Okay, then slide on over to pages 36-40 and summarize it for me.

^As I had guessed. How pleasant.

Viani

* If you can post an obscure and somewhat pointless Trope-ish detail on enough pages it will root into the wiki permanently since it would take "too much effort to change it all".
* Grandfather Clause is used to enforcer things that are dear and personally important to TV Tropes.
* Bias Sniping, "obvious haters will try to ruin everything", Don'tLikeDontEdit.
* It's Important even if the Examples provided are not important.

Manly McMacho

All of those things are like porn for FE, of course the staff isn't doing anything about them.

LW

Viani,
I might just have a lot of bias here, but I feel like TRS/Wiki Talk have actually improved as of late. I mean, I think that stuff like Nakama getting renamed, fetish fuel and Troper Tales being sent off-site, and the significant progress on the backlog of threads show that at least something is getting done.

It also seems to me that people are much more willing to rename and rework stuff with a lot of wicks and inbounds than they used to be, but I might be wrong about that. Honestly, I feel like participation in TRS by a greater number of users could help solve some of the other problems you mentioned too.

Of course, I would not call TRS perfect by any means. I think the amount of unwritten rules alone make things difficult for new users and threads do sometimes get unnecessarily heated.

millercross

I think that a problem I often see, and especially when it comes to the actual wiki, is how much you gotta fight for the glaring flaws to be solved, and instead they either ignored, supported, or, in the best case scenario, solving in the most half assed way possible.

In the case of those examples you've mentioned, while it's true that they happened, they happened way too late. And they shouldn't have happened in the first place, in my opinion.

TRS' main problem is, above all, that the majority will always choose the most annoying solution they can choose and lose sight of the aims of the wiki in order to enforce their own personal preferences

Misery

Ryona used to have examples.

Pretty disturbing.

Lunate

DYRE has never been, or been close to being, banned on IJBM on the basis of being less problematic than most of the userbase there or elsewhere (but specially there). He is currently active and has been so for quite a while.

Evilneko was there for a couple weeks or days, got temporarily banned and never came back.

Edit edit: Actually, make that two months and a half.

INUH

>there or elsewhere (but specially there).

Have you been to IJBM in the last four months or so?

Lunate

I kid, I kid.

Morven

A certain degree of the wank present in TRS is pretty inevitable on any Wiki.  Unfortunately, such things tend to get populated by those who are opinionated on the topic, those with an agenda.  The vast majority of any Wiki's population doesn't care enough to spend much time there.

Similar crap happens on Wikipedia's pages for the same stuff.

INUH

The thing that bothered me most regarding TRS is that when an article gets renamed, someone usually notices several months later and goes "I didn't see this article for a period of months, but it's really, really important to me that it go by a certain name."