What I'm getting at is that it's not entirely fair to say someone is an awful person because of two instances of where he did something stupid, one of which where everyone else reacted just as badly, and the other where he more or less apologized for what he said.
I don't feel any particular obligation to forgive him. I don't know the guy and have no investment in his work, and an apology he may or may not have meant has no effect on me or anyone else he may have offended.
I don't feel any particular obligation to forgive him. I don't know the guy and have no investment in his work, and an apology he may or may not have meant has no effect on me or anyone else he may have offended.
I'd say an honest apology has a pretty big effect. Saying that it had no effect whatsoever is ludicrous.
And if anything, not knowing the guy and having no investment in his work should be all the reason *not* to immediately judge him for this.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
I would assume anyone with a vagina is a woman but people do not exactly walk around showing their vaginas, do they? If someone with a vagina presents as a man, I will call them a man.
west philadelphia born and raised, on the playground was where you spent most of your days. You were chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool and all shootin some b-ball outside of school when a couple of guys who were up to no good started making trouble in your neighborhood. You got in one little fight and your mom got scared and
she said 'You're movin' with imi and and centie in Heapers' Hangout"
It does not go without saying actually, so I will take the time to say it now.
If you're not sure of something, and it becomes apparent that you're not sure because people are starting to point out how much you don't know, then either start to learn more before you begin to talk again (so you're not dragging your ignorance around like a safety blanket) or just expect your words to garner the same response (I would've said shut up, but I do not silence people.)
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
^ ninja'd ^_^
I don't think that calling someone "cis male garbage" is a very nice thing to do, nor do I think that thinking female masturbation involves exclusively vaginas is bigoted, because physically speaking, penises are male and vaginas are female.
It is things like this that embarrass social justice and make it look bad, which is not good, because SJ is supposed to be a good thing and it is a good thing when people don't act like that.
In other news, today at work I printed some wedding invitations for a lesbian couple. Never had that happen before in my seven years at this job. I thought that was kinda nice.
out of context it seemed pretty clear to me that the guy was denying that transsexuals exist.
Again, I do not particularly keep up with Penny Arcade nor the personal lives of its creators, but when you say something like that you have to expect that people are going to take it the wrong way.
In other news, today at work I printed some wedding invitations for a lesbian couple. Never had that happen before in my seven years at this job. I thought that was kinda nice.
out of context it seemed pretty clear to me that the guy was denying that transsexuals exist.
Again, I do not particularly keep up with Penny Arcade nor the personal lives of its creators, but when you say something like that you have to expect that people are going to take it the wrong way.
Which is precisely why he apologized. That doesn't seem like a particularly fair complaint.
I mean even if we are to accept his apology his status changes from "bigot" to "merely a douchebag", so....
How so? I mean, he's given three sincere public apologies, has been giving out his phone number to personally apologize to those he's offended, and he is donating 20000 dollars out of his own pocket to an organization to help transgendered people. What more do you expect from him?
Which y'know, is cool and all, but if he hadn't said it in the first place it wouldn't have been a problem. By his own admission, this isn't the first time he's done this kind of thing.
I think what actually bothers me far more about this situation is how Penny Arcade fans immediately leaped to the man's defense before he did any of this extensive apologizing.
As someone who is pretty apathetic to this entire thing in the first place, I can reasonably say what's expected of him is not to forget this kind of thing happened, to have more awareness when it comes to his words.
Which y'know, is cool and all, but if he hadn't said it in the first place it wouldn't have been a problem. By his own admission, this isn't the first time he's done this kind of thing.
I think what actually bothers me far more about this situation is how Penny Arcade fans immediately leaped to the man's defense before he did any of this extensive apologizing.
Well, all in all, that's more an issue with the fans than with the man himself. The guy said some astonishingly uncouth, ignorant things, but he at least seems to recognise that they were wrong and that he was wrong for saying them. That his supporters do not...
Which y'know, is cool and all, but if he hadn't said it in the first place it wouldn't have been a problem. By his own admission, this isn't the first time he's done this kind of thing.
I think what actually bothers me far more about this situation is how Penny Arcade fans immediately leaped to the man's defense before he did any of this extensive apologizing.
The latter is fine, but the former kind of baffles me. You're dismissing his apology because he made a mistake?
As someone who is pretty apathetic to this entire thing in the first place, I can reasonably say what's expected of him is not to forget this kind of thing happened, to have more awareness when it comes to his words.
Which is exactly what he said. On the first apology, even.
I don't think it's fair to say Dickwolves was "take one". Dickwolves was them making a joke that that they basically got away twice with already and then suddenly finding out either they where popular enough, or that the internet climate had shifted to the point where "familiar territory" was no longer "friendly territory" with some of their humor.
Kexruct about summed up how it ended, the issue mainly being that many people offended by the Dickwolves thing reacted with righteous indignation; causing Penny Arcade to respond with the follow-up comic; causing the offended party to flip more shit; causing Penny Arcade (with no small amount of goading from the fans, I'm sure) to release Dickwolves/sports themed clothing; causing more righteous indignation and more calling them rape apologists.
Eventually, some one calm and collected explained to Gabe that, at the very least, she wouldn't feel comfortable going to PAX if Dickwolves merch was to be sold. Gabe then decided to pull the merch and had something of a calm reflection, if memory serves.
I brought this up at TV Tropes where I think most brushed it off as a typical "Penny Arcade/ Internet humor joke where there was some degree of over reaction by people but the merch was probably pushing the boundaries of taste a bit." where it sat for a few weeks, probably falling off the serious discussion front page until a troper (who didn't use the form much) resurrected it, starting calling other tropers rape apologists, got his wife on to post as well, declared himself some sort of rape survivor defender, and eventually left with his wife because he didn't like the attitude at TV tropes.
To his credit, he noticed that the thread basically mirrored what happened with Penny Arcade fans (maybe on the Penny Arcade boards?). Though, I don't think it clicked that starting things off by labeling people as rape apologists was maybe not the best way to revitalize the discussion...
You know what? I don't really think that the dickwolves strip really counts as a rape joke. Like, there is a mention of rape, but that is not what the joke is about. The joke is about how video games can have poorly thought out rewards that make it ok, and maybe even beneficial, for good characters to do obviously wrong things, like, say, leave an innocent behind to be raped by dickwolves.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
^^One of the reasons why I think it's a very different situation, so it's kind of unfair to say "This has happened twice." Since the situations are only comparable in the sense that someone at Penny Arcade did something that offended others and got into it with them.
^I agree that that's basically the punchline. I don't want to get mired in semantics, but the joke isn't "ha ha, that person is getting raped!" It's "ha ha, MMORPGs basically encourage you to leave scores of hapless NPCs to their fate."
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Also true.
As mentioned this is basically the third (and last) time Penny Arcade used "rape" as a set-up, of sorts. I'm sure they where surprised that this time it was considered a faux pas.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Kinda off topic, but I sort of miss Jack Thompson and how hilariously ineffectual he was at...everything.
Theres a time where Penny Arcade got into it with someone and that person lost is the most saddest way possible.
Nice though that the anit-video game movement basically lost a ton of momentum when his license to practice law was revoked and Hillary Clinton decided hating video games didn't really play into being Secretary of State.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
But I know a lot of things about it. :o Too many things to organize into a neat little post!! ^_^
Gender dysphoria is when someone feels uncomfortable with their gender to a point of unhappiness or distress, and possibly identifies with a different one instead. :) It is often accompanied by sex changes and whatnot.
Comments
And if anything, not knowing the guy and having no investment in his work should be all the reason *not* to immediately judge him for this.
I hope Gabe is aware of sex changes?
If you're not sure of something, and it becomes apparent that you're not sure because people are starting to point out how much you don't know, then either start to learn more before you begin to talk again (so you're not dragging your ignorance around like a safety blanket) or just expect your words to garner the same response (I would've said shut up, but I do not silence people.)
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I don't think that calling someone "cis male garbage" is a very nice thing to do, nor do I think that thinking female masturbation involves exclusively vaginas is bigoted, because physically speaking, penises are male and vaginas are female.
It is things like this that embarrass social justice and make it look bad, which is not good, because SJ is supposed to be a good thing and it is a good thing when people don't act like that.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/06/21/going-one-step-further
out of context it seemed pretty clear to me that the guy was denying that transsexuals exist.
Again, I do not particularly keep up with Penny Arcade nor the personal lives of its creators, but when you say something like that you have to expect that people are going to take it the wrong way.
that's nice.The statement made is framed in such a way as to make it seem like the person had no societal awareness of the issue at all.
or in other words.
I almost understand that metaphor.
Almost.
I think that's a really expensive apology.
Which y'know, is cool and all, but if he hadn't said it in the first place it wouldn't have been a problem. By his own admission, this isn't the first time he's done this kind of thing.
I think what actually bothers me far more about this situation is how Penny Arcade fans immediately leaped to the man's defense before he did any of this extensive apologizing.
true enough.
I'm in an awful mood tonight anyway so maybe I just shouldn't be talking about important things.
Which is exactly what he said. On the first apology, even.
This was the strip that caused the previous controversy: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/08/11
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
yeah but like
nobody's flipping shit here, we're just saying he was being a dick.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Gender dysphoria is when someone feels uncomfortable with their gender to a point of unhappiness or distress, and possibly identifies with a different one instead. :) It is often accompanied by sex changes and whatnot.