Best and Worst Disney Animated Features

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 16:02:44

Since we've been on a tangent about them elsewhere, let's have at it.

My opinion is that the best is Sleeping Beauty. Now this is how you adapt a fairy tale to film: you don't change the original story, you make the most of the fact that it runs to a few thousand words in Perrault or Grimm to flesh it out. I don't think anyone will disagree that Maleficent's characterization is a great example of that. Then you add music based on Richard Wagner's principle of "music drama".

As for the worst, I've already talked about Pocahontas (changing history is just plain worse than changing a work of literature).

Bee · 2013-10-25 16:15:14

Pocahontas was bad as a historical adaptation, but at least watchable as a self-contained film. If you want the worst Disney movie, it's going to be one of the DTV sequels/interquels that didn't even bother having a plot.

As for the best, I was always fond of The Great Mouse Detective.

Imipolex G · 2013-10-25 16:21:45

Funny, the first one I thought of was The Great Mouse Detective.

I haven't even seen Pocahontas; I suspect the historical inaccuracy would drive me up the wall.

Alice in Wonderland is enjoyable, methinks.

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 16:21:53

I think we should only be counting theatrical (and non-Pixar) films, Bee. DTV is a target-rich environment for the bad end, and I'd like to be balanced.

The Great Mouse Detective is an overlooked gem. And from the "Disney renaissance", I think Beauty and the Beast was excellent, despite axing Belle's sisters and using talking tableware instead of the monkey butlers.

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 16:36:19

You know, I don't know why The Little Mermaid doesn't get flak like Hercules. They're both well-plotted and animated films from the same era that treat the original story with no respect. And Mermaid only had two good songs.

Anonus · 2013-10-25 16:41:07

I figure it's because Hercules was so full of Christian influences and Christianity is so commonplace in American culture that they feel it robbed the story of its interesting-ness?

Speaking of Hercules, Hades's voice was modeled on Jeffrey Katzenberg's (former Disney exec, rudder of the feature animation studio during the start of the Renaissance, architect of DreamWorks Animation)

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 16:44:36

^^^ i count 3: Part of Your World, Under the Sea and Poor Unfortunate Souls

but yeah cultural sensitivity and faithful adaptation is not Disney's strong suit (Mulan is largely an exception); Pocahontas wasn't true to the source material, but Greeks were pissed about Hercules, and Aladdin is borderline racist

Sleeping Beauty is fantastic and a strong contender for best imo. It's not entirely faithful to the source material, but i think they conveyed the spirit of the fairy tale which is the main thing

not sure about the worst, i've heard bad things about most of their early 2000s fare but i haven't even bothered watching them so idk

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 16:47:02

you know i imagine Hercules caught more flak than Mermaid because for a lot of people Ancient Greece is a major part of their heritage, whereas the Hans Christian Andersen story is just a rather grim morality fable (with a rather nasty message imo)

Anonus · 2013-10-25 16:48:27

I don't know what it is with Disney and racism flaps; even after Lasseter and Catmull gained control of Walt Disney Animation Studios, you still had The Princess and the Frog (Tiana was Disney's first black Princess, but she spends most of the movie as a frog)...

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 16:50:06

i still want to see that movie tho

Anonus · 2013-10-25 16:56:03

I did see it...I admit, until recently I saw nothing wrong with that whole angle, I didn't read that deeply into it

It's probably one of the milder instances of Disney handling race badly...

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 17:02:57

Jabberwock said:
you know i imagine Hercules caught more flak than Mermaid because for a lot of people Ancient Greece is a major part of their heritage, whereas the Hans Christian Andersen story is just a rather grim morality fable (with a rather nasty message imo)

Ancient Greece as heritage must be precisely it.

"Part of Your World, Under the Sea and Poor Unfortunate Souls" <-- ugh, no, Under the Sea isn't one. No fairy tale is improved by a singing Jamaican crab.

I also have no idea how the heck it's racist for a black person to be enchanted into a frog. The only racial issue in that movie is how changing it from Germany to New Orleans was a mercenary attempt to diversify their Princess products.

Anonus · 2013-10-25 17:04:39

I saw a Tumblr post that decried the transformation as racist (along with those in The Emperor's New Groove and Brother Bear; Kuzco is South American, and Kenai is Native American), and at least one other person elsewhere who felt uncomfortable with that aspect

Tumblr is Tumblr, but still

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 17:04:46

Gordon Gekko said:
I did see it...I admit, until recently I saw nothing wrong with that whole angle, I didn't read that deeply into it

It's probably one of the milder instances of Disney handling race badly...

i think they're just incompetent; from what i've heard they tried very hard to treat that one with sensitivity

with the older movies i think it's a question of changes in values; the mainstream media became a lot more aware of issues of racism and prejudice after the 1960s, before then they probably didn't give it much thought

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 17:05:38

oh well tumblr

Anonus · 2013-10-25 17:06:40

Though in the cases of TENG and BB accusing those movies of marginalizing non-whites is silly...

Anonus · 2013-10-25 17:08:44

Jabberwock said:

Gordon Gekko said:
I did see it...I admit, until recently I saw nothing wrong with that whole angle, I didn't read that deeply into it

It's probably one of the milder instances of Disney handling race badly...

i think they're just incompetent; from what i've heard they tried very hard to treat that one with sensitivity

with the older movies i think it's a question of changes in values; the mainstream media became a lot more aware of issues of racism and prejudice after the 1960s, before then they probably didn't give it much thought

It may well not be racism in P&TF's case at all, maybe looking at it from that angle is silly of me (I never entirely bought it but I could see where it was coming from)

I don't remember much about Aladdin, honestly; what was racist about it other than the opening song?

Imipolex G · 2013-10-25 17:10:17

I actually liked most of the music in The Little Mermaid...that plus Ariel's "seashell bra" look made it one of the more tolerable ones, for me.

I also remember finding The Emperor's New Groove agreeably silly.

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 17:10:23

Gordon Gekko said:
I saw a Tumblr post that decried the transformation as racist (along with those in The Emperor's New Groove and Brother Bear; Kuzco is South American, and Kenai is Native American), and at least one other person elsewhere who felt uncomfortable with that aspect

Some people said it, but it's not true.

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 17:10:57

it was mainly the opening song i was referencing, tho the whole portrayal of Arabic culture is highly stereotypical

i think their intentions were benign, they're just participating in a larger orientalizing myth that's pervasive in Western culture

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 17:12:09

why did the little mermaid wear sea shells?

because she outgrew her b-shells

</oldjoke>

Imipolex G · 2013-10-25 17:13:11

heh heh heh

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 17:15:34

Jabberwock said:
it was mainly the opening song i was referencing, tho the whole portrayal of Arabic culture is highly stereotypical

The funny thing is that the Arabic story is actually set in China. A China where the Emperor is a Moslem who names children things like "Badr al-Budr", but still.

Bee · 2013-10-25 17:16:53

^^^ ಠ_ಠ

I can sort of see the argument for Princess and the Frog, since the one black princess spends most of her time not even human. Then again, African mythology is about as chock full as it gets of metamorphoses.

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 17:18:34

i'm sorry

i'm not sorry

Imipolex G · 2013-10-25 17:21:11

Don't be sorry.

Anyway, The Black Cauldron, has anyone ever actually seen that one

Odradek · 2013-10-25 17:21:52

Melusina said:
Don't be sorry.

Anyway, The Black Cauldron, has anyone ever actually seen that one

I liked it as a kid.

Misery · 2013-10-25 17:22:05

Yes

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 17:22:25

I enjoyed Robin Hood as a kid, but it's like the most obvious example of when Disney didn't give features an animation budget (hi Baloo).

Odradek · 2013-10-25 17:23:22

No you see that was intentional, Baloo is Disney's Falstaff.

Everything else was a rip-off, though.

Obā-san · 2013-10-25 17:23:52

along with those in The Emperor's New Groove and Brother Bear; Kuzco is South American, and Kenai is Native American

the thing is, while Kuzco did get turned into a llama, pretty much the entire time he was a llama he was teamed up w/ Pacha, so it doesn't really make sense to me whatsoever saying they turned him into a llama to portraying POCs. also p much every other character in the film is a POC so yeah

speaking of which, The Emperor's New Groove is prolly my fave disney film (*either that or Lilo and Stitch*), while Brother Bear is my least.

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 17:24:49

R. L. Stine said:
No you see that was intentional, Baloo is Disney's Falstaff.

Everything else was a rip-off, though.

... it all makes sense!

Obā-san · 2013-10-25 17:27:30

Baloo "bears" a striking resemblance to Little John from Disney's Robin Hood

(*groans*)

thenamelesssamurai · 2013-10-25 17:35:23

No idea about the worst, but I'd say the best is Fantasia, personally.

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 17:42:14

what did you think of Fantasia 2000?

Odradek · 2013-10-25 17:43:25

The Rhapsody in Blue segment in that is nice.

Obā-san · 2013-10-25 17:44:01

that reminds me

the best musical number in disney history

didn't make it into the film tho

Hexartes · 2013-10-25 17:44:02

Disney tends to be a bit iffy about racial portrayal, but in the case of Pocahontas it was the combination of a lot of factors that made it so bad:

1. The treatment of Native Americans was both atrocious and semi recent.

2. John Smith was a horrid person IRL.

3. Whitewashing of history; it's been done before, sure, but again, this time it was particularly bad.

4. None of it was particularly good in the first place.

Whereas with something like Hercules I guess it's somewhat more acceptable because it's not based on actual Greek history.

lee4hmz · 2013-10-25 17:48:47

I need to see Sleeping Beauty again. The ending battle was included in an old Disney clip-show special ("Disney's Halloween Treat" from 1981 or 1982), but I tried watching the whole movie once and it felt weird.

Robin Hood, for all of its re-used animation and fuzzy Xeroxed ink lines, was always funny to me mainly because of Peter Ustinov (who I knew about the The Mouse and his Child and, of all things, Logan's Run) and Terry-Thomas. That and I actually kind of liked the songs.

I also really like Beauty and the Beast, though that's as much the homeless hopeless romantic in me talking as anything else. It and The Lion King came out while I was in high school, when I was dealing with pretty severe depression and had a lot of existential issues (that I ended up hiding until after I flunked out of college, oops).

As for worst? I've heard that the anthology movies from the 1940s and 1950s tend to get dumped on pretty regularly, but they're not all bad. However, no one seems to talk much about The Aristocats or 101 Dalmatians anymore (the live-action remake and sequel series notwithstanding).

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 17:51:07

i loved The Aristocats as a kid

101 Dalmatians was also great

Sleeping Beauty was my favourite when i was very young, so i think nostalgia possibly colours my impression of it; i should rewatch it sometime

Anonus · 2013-10-25 17:52:31

I love One Hundred and One Dalmatians and wanted to bring it up

I need to watch The Aristocats again...Lady and the Tramp too

wee I am such a furry :P

thenamelesssamurai · 2013-10-25 18:16:14

Jabberwock said:
what did you think of Fantasia 2000?

It was as a whole an all around solid movie, but I remember feeling that the selection of songs in Fantasia 2000 was not as good as the original Fantasia, but it's been a long time since I watched Fantasia 2000, so my tastes might have changed since then. Closing with Stravinsky's Firebird Suite was a great choice though.

You know, I forgot that Disney made the Aristocats. Thought someone else did that for some reason.

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 18:26:16

Disney's dog movies were great. Lady and the Tramp might not be as good overall as 101 Dalmatians, but the dinner scene is iconic. I don't think the big romantic moments in the fairy tale films top it, thouigh B&B's is fantastic.

Mr. Darcy · 2013-10-25 18:48:48

Disney animated features based on novel(la)s:

Pinocchio, Bambi, Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan (sort of), 101 Dalmatians, The Sword in the Stone (and T.H. White's Arthur novels aren't really for kids), The Jungle Book, Winnie the Pooh, The Rescuers, The Fox and the Hound, The Black Cauldron, The Great Mouse Detective, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Tarzan, and Treasure Planet (I guess).

Except Pooh, I wonder if the ones with animal protagonists are even in print, or if they're only remembered as Disney movies.

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 18:57:24

i enjoyed The Sword in the Stone as a kid

of all The Once and Future King books, it's the most child-friendly

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-10-25 18:59:37

Eve Titus wrote quite a few books about Basil of Baker Street; I think that I read the first one a long time ago. But yes, I think that more of them are in print than you would think, or at least available in some form.

And now the mention of Robin Hood has got me reading about Reynard and Ysengrin.

Tachyon · 2013-10-25 19:04:59

also i'd be VERY surprised if The Jungle Book is out of print

certainly in the UK, Kipling's books are considered classics, maybe he's not as much of a big deal in the US?

Anonus · 2013-10-25 19:07:27

I'm not sure how popular The Jungle Book is, in any form, over here (although Disney was able to spin it off into TaleSpin and Jungle Cubs and give it a live-action remake and a sequel)...

Odradek · 2013-10-25 19:08:32

Jabberwock said:
also i'd be VERY surprised if The Jungle Book is out of print

certainly in the UK, Kipling's books are considered classics, maybe he's not as much of a big deal in the US?

I'm pretty sure they're still in print over here too. I mean, the Cub Scouts use it as a teaching tool.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-10-25 19:24:31

Yes, it is. Kipling is not so popular as he once was, but he still garners a lot of respect as a writer, and The Jungle Book is one of his most popular works.

Justice4243 · 2013-10-25 19:38:47

The Emperor's new grove is good, it's sequel is pretty decent as well.

I'm not sure if I watched any abysmal movies of theirs, I remember the Aladdin sequels being decent...

Though, the Hunchback of Notre Dame is apparently pretty horrible.

Best and Worst Disney Animated Features

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