^^ Indeed. Lupin in a post-A Woman Called Fujiko Mine world. Hmm.
^^^^ You really should watch Revolutionary Girl Utena at some point... but only in sub, because the dub is really not worth your time, as I have said before. I hate to get snotty about it, but... it's a lot more edifying than a lot of those things you listed there, intellectually speaking, and really fun and compelling to boot. Ditto RahXephon.
I probably will get around to RahXephon at some point, since it at least looks interesting. Probably won't be able to stop comparing it to Evangelion, unless it takes on a life of its own at some point.
Utena is something that a lot of people have recced, but there's just something about the plot -- the whole idea of having a fancy fighting contest as the focus of the plot, based on what I've read -- that I just don't really like. I don't know why. For what it's worth, it shares this issue with Fate/stay night. The phrase "dick-waving contest" comes to mind, though I can't (and shouldn't) say that without having seen them. But something just feels kinda pointless about that premise -- maybe I'm just less interested in the fighting and more interested in exploring the reasons for the fighting.
Well I guess I've just never really focused that much on fight scenes. They're just something that...happens, I guess. Fights are coolest when you have martial artists doing it in live-action. Otherwise, it's just animation anyway. Or something like that. I dunno.
Though I seem to have a thing for interesting tactics. Like, the division-of-labor (or more like division-of-attention) features of the second half of Nanoha StrikerS? I enjoyed that, and more so than any individual fight. I have a lot of fun recalling who fought whom and who defeated whom and what events caused which conditions that affected which other matches. Contrast a specific fight -- such as Subaru's climactic battle, with flying punches (literally) and hot-blooded willpower: it didn't really appeal to me as much. (Teana, on the other hand, demonstrated a high degree of win.)
Utena is something that a lot of people have recced, but there's just something about the plot -- the whole idea of having a fancy fighting contest as the focus of the plot, based on what I've read -- that I just don't really like. I don't know why. For what it's worth, it shares this issue with Fate/stay night. The phrase "dick-waving contest" comes to mind, though I can't (and shouldn't) say that without having seen them. But something just feels kinda pointless about that premise -- maybe I'm just less interested in the fighting and more interested in exploring the reasons for the fighting.
Well I guess I've just never really focused that much on fight scenes. They're just something that...happens, I guess. Fights are coolest when you have martial artists doing it in live-action. Otherwise, it's just animation anyway. Or something like that. I dunno.
Utena really isn't about fighting at all. I mean, the fight scenes do occur with reasonable frequency, but that's really, really not the draw of the show. If I were to describe Revolutionary Girl Utena in a sentence, I would say that it's a show about seeing through the different illusions that we are presented with or create for ourselves that keep us from being truly free or happy, with a particular feminist bent.
As for RahXephon, it bears very little resemblance to that other giant robot show, even if it would not have been made without it. I guess there's the blood thing and some stuff about clones and conspiracies, but that's nothing to do with themes, plot or tone.
^ Yeah, and they get more laden with metaphor as the show goes on.
^^^^ You really should watch Revolutionary Girl Utena at some point... but only in sub, because the dub is really not worth your time, as I have said before. I hate to get snotty about it, but... it's a lot more edifying than a lot of those things you listed there, intellectually speaking, and really fun and compelling to boot. Ditto RahXephon.
Don't worry, I don't take offense to your using the term "edifying".
But come to think of it, I actually wonder if that's related to my problem with Madoka Magica. Specifically, the problem where I feel like I've gotten a lot more thoughts than feels out of the series. I've had a lot to think about from watching it, and I've certainly spent a lot of time thinking about it, but I've sometimes felt like I'm straining to relate to the characters and their struggles -- like I'm looking at a bunch of flawed characters on a Greek tragedy stage or something, but having trouble putting myself into their shoes emotionally.
Or maybe this has nothing to do with intellectualness. Maybe it just has to do with the way the show was written, or even the way I watched it. I dunno.
(Incidentally, maybe that was intentional. The show DOES start and end with a stage-like setting, after all...)
I would contest the T&A statement. There's fairly little fanservice in the show, although there is definitely some psychosexual weirdness at points vis à vis the monsters-of-the-week and their powers, and the whole bit with the love triangle (or dodecahedron).
You know, I completely forgot that episode where they're all on the beach. But it's really just one episode, and aside from the blonde messing with Ayato it's pretty devoid of the usual sex gags.
So I recently watched Hope Chapman's last video recently - a rundown of her favourite episodes of Space Dandy, which I still have yet to see - and I came to a series of semi-related but distinct conclusions, one of these being that I really need to look more into animation and art directors when seeking out new shows to watch. There are certain animators and artists whose work is consistently interesting from a visual and thematic perspective who are rarely seen on the front end of a project; some of these, like Yoshitoshi ABe, are fairly well-known despite this, but others - say, Eunyoung Choi or Yasuhiro Nakura - sort of hang in the background of great productions. I need to look closer...
And watch Space Dandy. I really need to watch Space Dandy.
space dandy has different animation supervisors each episode, too. i don't know the names but i can tell you that first episode looks a lot different from, say, the plant one, which looks like Cat Soup or MIND GAME or something
looks like a guy in charge with both of those directed a space dandy episode, infact. not one i've seen tho.
Yeah, Eunyoung Choi directed the plant one. She's one of Yuasa's proteges, very talented. Yuasa himself directed an episode in the second season; at least one other member of his crew directed an episode as well. Also worth noting how many women were in writing and directing positions on that show as well. It's really quite a lineup.
Country of origin. Other things can be inspired by natively Japanese animation styles, but I wouldn't call them by the Japanese word. RWBY and Teen Titans are not anime, but they draw heavily on Japanese tropes and motifs, and that's all well and good, but that doesn't make them Japanese. That said, I am less likely to think of things like A Country Doctor or La Maison en Petits Cubes as "anime" per se, given that anime is traditionally more of a slang term and the full word animeshon tends to be applied to stuff like that thereabouts anyway, or at least was for a long time—Miyazaki has discussed this.
My question was less about the term "anime" and its use, and more about whether (each of) you feel that the content of anime series -- especially the narratives, the music, the characterization...everything except the setting (and superficial traits of it such as the language, foods, etc.) -- are inherently tied to the Japanese culture, or can be conceived of separately from it.
Alternatively: if you do watch anime, do you expect it to "feel" Japanese, or not?
Though the topic of terminology and whether "anime" can/should be used to describe works of that art style from outside Japan (e.g. RWBY) is definitely a hot topic of internet debate these days, too.
My question was less about the term "anime" and its use, and more about whether (each of) you feel that the content of anime series -- especially the narratives, the music, the characterization...everything except the setting (and superficial traits of it such as the language, foods, etc.) -- are inherently tied to the Japanese culture, or can be conceived of separately from it.
It really depends. Most Japanese animation draws heavily on North American and European traditions and tropes mutated to greater and lesser degrees by the context of Japanese popular culture and norms. At the end of the day, most "anime tropes" are very Western.
Now, there are some differences in terms of what kinds of themes and storytelling methods are prevalent—mono no aware is a very prevalent concept in Japanese media, but quite alien to most Americans, at least in terms of being a thing with a name. I've heard it theorised that this is part of the reason that even bad anime resonate with a lot of people in the West: It plays on emotions in ways that are common there but rare here, and that's novel.
There are also cases like Mononoke and The Eccentric Family where the whole ethos of the show is heavily rooted in almost uniquely Japanese ideas and cultural themes, but those are rarer and, naturally, less accessible to foreigners. I personally love the hell out of these shows.
I would be remiss to ignore the increased acceptance of death and sexuality in media aimed at younger viewers, but that's basically an American hang-up and not that unusual elsewhere.
My question was less about the term "anime" and its use, and more about whether (each of) you feel that the content of anime series -- especially the narratives, the music, the characterization...everything except the setting (and superficial traits of it such as the language, foods, etc.) -- are inherently tied to the Japanese culture, or can be conceived of separately from it.
Alternatively: if you do watch anime, do you expect it to "feel" Japanese, or not?
Though the topic of terminology and whether "anime" can/should be used to describe works of that art style from outside Japan (e.g. RWBY) is definitely a hot topic of internet debate these days, too.
Ah. In that case, my impulse would be to say no, at least not inherently. I mean, there's the upcoming anime adaptation of the manga Gold Ring (by Gainax, of all studios), which is a collaboration between an United Arab Emirates author and two Japanese artists and features an Arabic setting.
On that note really looking forward to Gainax's adaptation of Gold Ring, even though I haven't read the source material.
Also, question for any Persona fans we have here. I started getting interested in the games, but I can't afford them at the moment. Should I watch the Persona anime and movies or just wait to get the games?
Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
Okay so. Let me run down the good and the bad. Note that my experience only covers Persona 3 and 4.
Persona 3 (original)
Great story.
Some of my favorite cast.
But also some really unlikable side-characters.
The plot is...basically Scooby-Doo plus Ghostbusters with magic, psychology, and depression. A dangerous threat looms over the city and you're the only ones equipped to deal with it. (there's even a dog main character)
It's a PS2 game so you can find it on emulation pretty much anywhere.
Combat is weak. You can't control your team-mates directly, so they'll likely do things you don't want them to do. Mitsuru is infamous for using Marin Karin (a charm ability) when you want her to heal, but she's never done that to me.
Explore Tartarus, one giant dungeon, cut into various sections. Like the Tower of Babel. Most floors are random procedural-generated, so you need to be careful. And you can't save until you go back to the ground level. I like that tense feeling. You might not.
Enemies are pretty blind at times, which makes back-stabbing and gaining the upper hand pretty easy.
Do you like time management? Because that's what you'll be doing.
Do you like walking around in limited environments? That's also what you'll be doing.
Do you like dating sim/visual novel things? That's a huge part of what you'll be doing. Building relationships (Social Links) with NPCs will raise your Arcana powers, which will give you bonus XP (and thus levels) when fusing Personae who belong to that Arcana.
Basically, decide if you want to spend your time after school hanging out with friends, training stats, or exploring Tartarus.
Play 'Find The Lady' to get free Personae, weapons, as well as bonus XP and money after certain battles. This is called "Shuffle Time."
Difficulty is the fakest it's ever been: Hard means you don't get any retries on death. Easy means you get more.
Persona 3 Portable
The same story, BUT the ability to choose a female protagonist makes certain things different. No lesbian options (and for that matter, no gay options either)
All the overworld walking around is cut out. Instead you move cursors around. Cuts out what I feel is a huge time-sink and completely unneeded cruft.
No more in-game models for cutscenes. Only uses sprites. Makes it seem more like a visual novel.
The combat is less hard, and it gives you direct control over your teammates. BUT it is not balanced for that, and as such the fights are generally a triviality. This may be a positive or a negative.
You need a PSP. If you don't have one (who does these days) you need a Vita. I'm not sure if you can emulate it.
Better Shuffle Time games.
Persona 4 (Original)
I played it for like an hour and then I stopped.
PS2. You can emulate it.
Persona 4 Golden
A really really good game.
The same game as Persona 4 but with tons more stuff.
The cast is weaker overall than P3 but still I like them a lot. Conversely, the side characters are stronger than P3.
Different (some including me say better) voice actors for certain characters.
Since the plot is a whodunnit, there's a lot of recapping information. Unfortunately, the characters are kind of slow, taking their time to come to realizations. And the mystery isn't very good and difficult to figure out.
Two additional Social Links with one new character (whom many don't like, she's kind of a scene girl/tsundere stereotype but I love her) and with a different, already existing pivotal character. Messes up the Rider-Waite Arcana scheme by adding Arcana from the Thoth deck, but who the fuck cares.
The game is actually balanced to controlling your teammates directly.
Instead of one giant dungeon with random levels, you are exploring different dungeons with preset levels.
Enemies are harder to back-stab. Much harder. And they will chase you further if they spot you.
You can buy and equip costumes for all the characters, including maid, butler, cheerleader, Christmas, Halloween, and Super Sentai outfits.
You need a Vita. Vitas are goddamned expensive.
Persona 3: The Movie - Birth of Spring
Pretty good movie.
Good animation, follows the plot of the game pretty well.
Because of how the protagonist is written, some of the characterization works better.
Too little happens in it, so I'm not sure if all three movies will cover all the story.
Persona 4: The Animation
Okay show.
Animation is spotty at times.
Smooshes several social links into one episode, which I like and don't like.
I haven't finished watching it.
MAGICAL DETECTIVE LOVELINE IS THE SHIT
Persona 4 The Golden: The Animation
It's literally just an anime adaption of everything added that was in The Golden.
To the point where the aforementioned bonus scene kid/tsundere character is the actual protagonist of this show.
If you don't like that character, don't watch this show.
Best to think of it as an adaption of a New Game Plus run, with spells and abilities used in the first episode which the main character shouldn't have access to (but he only does that once).
It doesn't go anywhere that the original game didn't already go.
It's like seriously all fanservice.
For example, eyecatches detail the costumes you could buy and equip.
There's a dumb trivia game diversion that's not even part of the main game, which this show made into an episode and inserted Scene Girl into it.
God, I love Scene Girl.
Anyway, don't watch this first under any circumstances. You will be lost.
It's not an animated adaption of the Persona 4 Golden game.
Okay, cool. Thanks a bunch, that was really informative. I'll start with P3, since I don't have a Vita. Though it's a shame the female protagonist wasn't in the original game. From the little I've heard about P3, I think I'd like her more than the male protagonist.
Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
Hamuko's great. But I can't romance Mitsuru as Hamuko. So I pick her brother.
There's also Persona 4 Arena and Persona 4 Ultimax: The Ultra Suplex Hold. A fighting game. I didn't play that (though I would dearly like to), and I imagine you can't either.
I wonder whether it'd be fair to characterize iDOLM@STER as being less about pop idols as it is about show biz.
Where "being about pop idols" means primarily making a big thing of their stage show presence, in the form of singing, dancing, and costumes -- especially the latter two, arguably. And the emphasis on moë and related tropes.
I haven't seen Love Live, but from what I've seen of The iDOLM@STER, AKB0048, and Aikatsu, it seems that that's the difference in focus that I'm sensing.
Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
I've been watching Fate Stay/Night: Unlimited Blade Works and Fate Zero. I quite like it.
What I want to know is what specifically causes the Fuyuki System to only summon Servants of "western" origin, since the Assassins, Gilgamesh, and one [SPOILER] other can't really be considered "western."
Are they past the lengthy backstory of Solomon arc yet? I lost interest half way through and I haven't bothered catching up. Honestly I've been enjoying Sinbad spin-off manga more than the original series lately.
I haven't caught up to that one. I just finished the Kou-Reim war.
Oh okay. If I recall correctly, then you're about to hit the Solomon arc. Also, if you haven't read the Adventure of Sinbad manga yet, you should definitely read it.
Comments
Utena is something that a lot of people have recced, but there's just something about the plot -- the whole idea of having a fancy fighting contest as the focus of the plot, based on what I've read -- that I just don't really like. I don't know why. For what it's worth, it shares this issue with Fate/stay night. The phrase "dick-waving contest" comes to mind, though I can't (and shouldn't) say that without having seen them. But something just feels kinda pointless about that premise -- maybe I'm just less interested in the fighting and more interested in exploring the reasons for the fighting.
Well I guess I've just never really focused that much on fight scenes. They're just something that...happens, I guess. Fights are coolest when you have martial artists doing it in live-action. Otherwise, it's just animation anyway. Or something like that. I dunno.
Though I seem to have a thing for interesting tactics. Like, the division-of-labor (or more like division-of-attention) features of the second half of Nanoha StrikerS? I enjoyed that, and more so than any individual fight. I have a lot of fun recalling who fought whom and who defeated whom and what events caused which conditions that affected which other matches. Contrast a specific fight -- such as Subaru's climactic battle, with flying punches (literally) and hot-blooded willpower: it didn't really appeal to me as much. (Teana, on the other hand, demonstrated a high degree of win.)
[/rant]
Don't worry, I don't take offense to your using the term "edifying".
But come to think of it, I actually wonder if that's related to my problem with Madoka Magica. Specifically, the problem where I feel like I've gotten a lot more thoughts than feels out of the series. I've had a lot to think about from watching it, and I've certainly spent a lot of time thinking about it, but I've sometimes felt like I'm straining to relate to the characters and their struggles -- like I'm looking at a bunch of flawed characters on a Greek tragedy stage or something, but having trouble putting myself into their shoes emotionally.
Or maybe this has nothing to do with intellectualness. Maybe it just has to do with the way the show was written, or even the way I watched it. I dunno.
(Incidentally, maybe that was intentional. The show DOES start and end with a stage-like setting, after all...)
that's mostly it i think, it's its own thing. i like both
like all of them practically
how useful
next i will cite anime bath scene wiki, and then
And watch Space Dandy. I really need to watch Space Dandy.
looks like a guy in charge with both of those directed a space dandy episode, infact. not one i've seen tho.
do you think anime is an inherently japanese thing?
Alternatively: if you do watch anime, do you expect it to "feel" Japanese, or not?
Though the topic of terminology and whether "anime" can/should be used to describe works of that art style from outside Japan (e.g. RWBY) is definitely a hot topic of internet debate these days, too.
On that note really looking forward to Gainax's adaptation of Gold Ring, even though I haven't read the source material.
Like how Evangelion is in C minor.
Where "being about pop idols" means primarily making a big thing of their stage show presence, in the form of singing, dancing, and costumes -- especially the latter two, arguably. And the emphasis on moë and related tropes.
I haven't seen Love Live, but from what I've seen of The iDOLM@STER, AKB0048, and Aikatsu, it seems that that's the difference in focus that I'm sensing.