Internet antinatalists like to stack the deck here by denying the existence of pleasure.
Internet anti-natalists are dumb. I can respect that people like Benetar or, hell, Ligotti have thought this stuff through even if I disagree with the basic premise, but it seems that so many of their adherents are just trying to justify being grumpy, boring and self-absorbed.
I'm surprised no one ever got up in arms about this.
i don't agree with this article's conclusions regarding religion
for one, while i don't think it makes sense to consider "potential people" as experiencing deprivation, i don't agree that pleasure is merely the absence of suffering. pleasure is, or may at least be regarded as, an end in itself
furthermore it may be that eternal bliss is, if not fundamentally different, then at least both quantatively and qualitatively different from life's pleasures, in which case Benatar's argument simply isn't applicable to a religious worldview
furthermore it may be that eternal bliss is, if not fundamentally different, then at least both quantatively and qualitatively different from life's pleasures, in which case Benatar's argument simply isn't applicable to a religious worldview
another case of "let me define this for you so I can tell you you're defining it wrong".
furthermore it may be that eternal bliss is, if not fundamentally different, then at least both quantatively and qualitatively different from life's pleasures, in which case Benatar's argument simply isn't applicable to a religious worldview
another case of "let me define this for you so I can tell you you're defining it wrong".
i don't follow you
who are you talking about? me, the religious, Benatar, Southan?
furthermore it may be that eternal bliss is, if not fundamentally different, then at least both quantatively and qualitatively different from life's pleasures, in which case Benatar's argument simply isn't applicable to a religious worldview
another case of "let me define this for you so I can tell you you're defining it wrong".
i don't follow you
who are you talking about? me, the religious, Benatar, Southan?
So, yeah, looking up the Mongols on Cracked.com (I'd forgotten why I hated that site after a year and a half)
and came across this in the comments section:
Kill74: of all the terrible, terrible, excuses for philosophies that we call religion, islam is by far the worst. if you don't believe me google "dar al islam dar al harb" and you'll find articles by accredited sociologists pointing out how, for all the muslims' claims of searching for peace, the religion of islam (which I refuse to capitalize for a reason) is based on an ideal of "convert or kill" I say all other faiths, or lack thereofs nut up, band together, and raze mecca to the f**king ground.
I believe "Mongol" is like, a really old-timey slur for Germans.
I have not heard it ever used in that context in the modern day though.
"Mongoloid" is a really dated term for people with Down's syndrome. In that context, it's pretty offensive, although when used in physical anthropology it's pretty neutral: It just means "possessing a skull shape indicative of Mongol peoples."
I believe "Mongol" is like, a really old-timey slur for Germans.
I have not heard it ever used in that context in the modern day though.
"Mongoloid" is a really dated term for people with Down's syndrome. In that context, it's pretty offensive, although when used in physical anthropology it's pretty neutral: It just means "possessing a skull shape indicative of Mongol peoples."
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Internet antinatalists like to stack the deck here by denying the existence of pleasure.
Internet anti-natalists are dumb. I can respect that people like Benetar or, hell, Ligotti have thought this stuff through even if I disagree with the basic premise, but it seems that so many of their adherents are just trying to justify being grumpy, boring and self-absorbed.
Which is funny, because of how often opponents get accused of being egotists.
Technically, the origins of Islam were pretty militant, but not because the religion itself is militant so much as because Muhammad ended up being a kind of great unifier of the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula, and consequently a temporal ruler just as much as he was a religious leader. The notion that the tenets of Islam themselves are any more violent than any other is pretty absurd.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
i am pretty sure that any argument for pleasure being illusory could be applied to suffering as well
It's intuitive to people with depression.
Well I guess.
It never seemed intuitive to me during my depressive period, and my uncle who's struggled with depression came up with the same come back when I told him about it.
i am pretty sure that any argument for pleasure being illusory could be applied to suffering as well
Probably.
I would say that there are good arguments for life being a good or bad thing that cannot be countered thus, but when you get into "X is an illusion" territory...
I mean, a gigabyte is like a huge huge huge game that makes your computer run extremely slow and makes you have to uninstall everything except your basic computer functions and the game.
Kafka can be very funny and very disturbing, occasionally at the same time. Take "A Country Doctor". The situation that transpires is fundamentally horrific, and yet in equal measure incredibly silly and frequently slapstick in a ghoulish way.
I mean they're feelings. Feelings are purely objects of the mind. An illusion is a thing that is solely an object of the mind. So, saying that a feeling is illusory is useless, as there is no way for them to be anything other than illusory.
Also I don't understand how pleasure or suffering being illusory is supposed to be a mark against them? because if things that are solely mental constructs are irrelevant, than shouldn't all thought be so?
I mean they're feelings. Feelings are purely objects of the mind. An illusion is a thing that is solely an object of the mind. So, saying that a feeling is illusory is useless, as there is no way for them to be anything other than illusory.
Also I don't understand how pleasure or suffering being illusory is supposed to be a mark against them? because if things that are solely mental constructs are irrelevant, than shouldn't all thought be so?
but i think to myself whats the meaning of happiness? feeling doesnt exist, you should realize that humans don't really feel anything any feeling you have is a chemical in your mind sending off "happy" or "sad".
That beauty is just how pleasing the things you see are, there isn't a delusional idea that people really "feel" or "love" Love is just a chemical in your brain. Its not a "truly moving, fascinating, deep, wonderful experience".it to you, but there isn't anything magical going on. No need to be delusional. They're just neurons. all pleasures are just hormones, happiness is just hormones, why living because of chemical thing???? why to be so attached to life if all is just chemical???
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I remember having to explain to my parents what a terabyte was
Because, at the time, it seemed like an obscenely and impossibly large amount of storage space
I mean they're feelings. Feelings are purely objects of the mind. An illusion is a thing that is solely an object of the mind. So, saying that a feeling is illusory is useless, as there is no way for them to be anything other than illusory.
Also I don't understand how pleasure or suffering being illusory is supposed to be a mark against them? because if things that are solely mental constructs are irrelevant, than shouldn't all thought be so?
True.
Honestly, the biggest mark I can think of against organic life has nothing to do with emotion or even sensations exactly, but what it requires to exist.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Confession: It's 2013 and I still don't own a 1 TB hard drive
Comments
for one, while i don't think it makes sense to consider "potential people" as experiencing deprivation, i don't agree that pleasure is merely the absence of suffering. pleasure is, or may at least be regarded as, an end in itself
furthermore it may be that eternal bliss is, if not fundamentally different, then at least both quantatively and qualitatively different from life's pleasures, in which case Benatar's argument simply isn't applicable to a religious worldview
I have not heard it ever used in that context in the modern day though.
who are you talking about? me, the religious, Benatar, Southan?
what's this about Pat Benatar?
That applies times 90 for any site that has articles. At all.
oh, Southan then
i meant David Benatar, pessimistic philosopher and antinatalist icon
and multiply that by 90 again if the site happens to be Cracked, or any similar site
Which is funny, because of how often opponents get accused of being egotists.
i remember the first time Odradek said something like 'why are antinatalists all obsessed with Pat Benatar?', it went right over my head
because i'd forgotten David Benatar's first name, and i didn't know who Pat Benatar was
Samuel Beckett, Kafka, and Bataille do, Lars Von Trier and internet antinatalists do not.
Well I guess.
sometimes
Saying which book would be a spoiler.
That beauty is just how pleasing the things you see are, there isn't a delusional idea that people really "feel" or "love" Love is just a chemical in your brain. Its not a "truly moving, fascinating, deep, wonderful experience".it to you, but there isn't anything magical going on. No need to be delusional. They're just neurons. all pleasures are just hormones, happiness is just hormones, why living because of chemical thing???? why to be so attached to life if all is just chemical???
The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien