Doctor Who

Anonus · 2012-01-22 21:28:21

Because we didn't have a thread about it before!

Tachyon · 2012-01-22 21:31:02

What did you think of the Christmas episode?

Anonus · 2012-01-22 21:32:58

It was...kind of meh, at least the tree-people sequences. I did think it was kind of sweet that the Doctor paid Amy and Rory a visit for Christmas dinner.

...they're not going to start showing new episodes until at least the fall. Crap.

millercross · 2012-01-22 21:34:40

WATCH SHERLOCK TO KILL THE WAIT :D

with that said, I loved the Christmas episode for what it was: A simple story about the Doctor helping people. And those are the stories I wanna see more of, especially now that the Doctor's going incognito.

Tachyon · 2012-01-22 21:34:53

I didn't like it that much. It felt like not a lot happened. The Christmas episode I mean, not Sherlock.

Have either of you seen any of the classic stories?

Anonus · 2012-01-22 21:37:03

No, but I want to. But I don't know where to start!

millercross · 2012-01-22 21:40:40

Well, to be honest, Christmas episodes tend to not be particularly eventful. With that said, it did start pretty slowly. I think the best part is definetly the Doctor visiting the Ponds.

I started The Five Doctors a while back to get a feel of the different doctors as well as the different shows but my computer fried and I haven't tried it since then.

Tachyon · 2012-01-22 21:46:00

I still need to see The Five Doctors.

Of the ones I've seen I think the best introductions to the classic episodes are "The Horror of Fang Rock", "City of Death" or "Genesis of the Daleks".

INUH · 2012-01-22 21:46:21

Fuck, I just realized I forgot about the Christmas episode D:

Princess Alice · 2012-01-22 23:18:50

^ Same here. It's been sitting in my DVR for almost a month now!

Misery · 2012-01-23 00:20:12

Haven't watched this for a while.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-23 03:22:22

I was too drunk to watch it

Haven · 2012-01-23 03:25:03

I think I missed out on it too.

Also, "City of Death" was really good. I was probably more entertained than I should've been by the one cop whose entire schtick was unnecessary violence. A one-note character, but it was a pretty amusing note.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-23 03:30:28

But I will say this, Series 6 was weak except from the Doctors Wife

Anonus · 2012-01-23 03:31:39

Honestly I preferred it to Series 5. Maybe I was just getting used to the changes made to the show or something.

I should watch those episodes again.

Tachyon · 2012-01-23 21:36:40

"The Doctor's Wife" was amazing, but series 5 also had some of my favourite episodes like "The Eleventh Hour" and "Amy's Choice", so I think I prefer it to series 6 when each is considered as a whole.

Anonus · 2012-01-23 21:37:37

Maybe I just have low standards, but I found "Amy's Choice" to be kind of clever.

millercross · 2012-01-23 21:40:58

I liked Series 5 more, but I don't think that series 6 was as bad as most people make it out to be. Or at least, the individual episodes, anyway. As a whole, it is pretty weak. A pretty kickass premise and a pretty kickass conclusion, but a really weak travel.

Princess Alice · 2012-01-23 21:41:46

Personally I like series 5 more, I think.

Tachyon · 2012-01-23 21:54:41

The problem with series 6 wasn't the episodes as standalones, it's that the story arc was incredibly ill-advised. It was redeemed slightly in the finale, but it still irked me. Other than that, no real complaints. I didn't really like the minotaur episode but that was mainly due to ideological issues I had with the premise and parts of the script; in terms of actual execution and creative premise it was superb, and to imply otherwise would be sour grapes on my part. That one aside, I can't remember a single series 6 episode that I didn't thoroughly enjoy on its own terms (and yes, that means I liked the one with the pirates).

Series 5, on the other hand, had a better story arc and the episodes worked as standalones. And yeah, "Amy's Choice" was clever.

And actually, series 5 also had one of the weakest episodes IMO ("Victory of the Daleks", my least favourite since the revival).

millercross · 2012-01-23 22:05:51

(and yes, that means I liked the one with the pirates).

you're best bro, bobby

Tachyon · 2012-01-23 22:13:37

Knew you had good taste, Juan.

INUH · 2012-01-23 22:24:46

I liked the pirates one too.

And actually, series 5 also had one of the weakest episodes IMO ("Victory of the Daleks", my least favourite since the revival).

Unsurprising, given that VotD was pretty much an excuse to swap out some props.

Though it's far from my least favorite since the revival. I mean, worse than Love and Monsters? Really?

Tachyon · 2012-01-23 22:31:49

"Love & Monsters" was just silly. It was another weak episode, but it's so different from the normal episodes that I think it's kind of wrong to judge it on the same terms. It was poor, but it could have been worse.

VoTD was just a terrible story from start to finish, and threw out one of the best monster designs they've had on the entire run of the show. Coupled with the retconning of the RTD Dalek stories via the cracks in time, the whole thing felt like a big fat middle finger to the preceding era. Awful episode. Even Spitfires in space couldn't save it.

(That said, it did have a few moments that I particularly liked, while L&M had a few I strongly disliked, so my feelings are maybe more mixed than the above implies.)

INUH · 2012-01-23 22:50:16

Fair points, I suppose.

They're both around the bottom, as far as ranking goes.

millercross · 2012-01-23 22:56:33

I liked Victory of the Daleks, although that was because I pretty much didn't care for RTD's era. With that said, it's not exactly a story I would defend.

Tachyon · 2012-01-23 23:02:35

Good points of VoTD:

Portrayed a sympathetic Winston Churchill without overdoing the patriotism.
WOULD YOU CARE FOR SOME TEA?
YOU DO NOT REQUIRE TEA?
Spitfires in space (least said about how they got there, the better).
It's a Jammie Dodger, but I was promised tea!
The Doctor's reaction to the bittersweet victory speaks volumes of his character.

Anonus · 2012-01-23 23:04:12

I was advised not to watch "Love & Monsters", which I only saw a few minutes of before stopping it.

"Victory of the Daleks" is probably one I should watch again. I don't think Series 5 really "sunk in" for me, somehow.

Tachyon · 2012-01-28 04:01:14

Bumping because I just finished "The Five Doctors". I liked it, but it would have been better if they could have gotten Tom Baker, and it was sad about William Hartnell. I'm sure Richard Hurndall did his best and he was pretty good, but it wasn't the same.

Old High Gallifreyan looked like Ancient Greek in that, instead of the spirograph/watch mechanism letters they use now.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-28 10:21:42

Hmm, my favourite episodes from each of the 6 series:

Series 1: Boomtown

Series 2: Doomsday

Series 3: Gridlock

Series 4: Turn Left

Series 4.5: The Waters of Mars

Series 5: Amy's Choice

Series 6: The Doctors Wife

Tachyon · 2012-01-28 17:58:38

That looks like fun. Mine:

Series 1: The Empty Child

Series 2: The Impossible Planet

Series 3: Blink

Series 4: Midnight

Series 4.5: The Waters of Mars

Series 5: The Eleventh Hour

Series 6: The Doctor's Wife

And for the hell of it:

Torchwood S1: Countrycide

Torchwood S2: Dead Man Walking

Torchwood S3: Children of Earth: Day Four

Torchwood S4: The Gathering

Sarah-Jane S1: Whatever Happened to Sarah-Jane?

Sarah-Jane S2: The Last Sontaran

Sarah-Jane S3: The Wedding of Sarah-Jane Smith

Sarah-Jane S4: The Nightmare Man

Sarah-Jane S5: The Curse of Clyde Langer

Princess Alice · 2012-01-28 18:02:20

Series 1: The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances

Series 2: The Girl in the Fireplace

Series 3: Blink

Series 4: Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead

(Noticing a pattern here? :P)

Series 5: Amy's Choice

Series 6: The Doctor's Wife

Anonus · 2012-01-28 19:33:34

...did you pick the Moffat episodes intentionally or is it just coincidence? What about his episodes is better than Davies/other writers?

Princess Alice · 2012-01-28 19:40:25

I didn't pick Moffat episodes intentionally, those just happened to be the more memorable ones to me.

Anonus · 2012-01-28 19:42:01

I think I'd probably pick "The Girl In The Fireplace" as my favorite of Series 2 as well, although I enjoyed "New Earth" as well.

...also, what about Davies's finales struck you as "over-the-top"? I never really saw that in any of them except "Journey's End".

Princess Alice · 2012-01-28 19:56:24

I'm not sure. I think I really just don't like finales in general--I much prefer the self-contained stories that don't have to try to be big payoffs.

Tachyon · 2012-01-28 19:58:06

^ I kinda agree, though I didn't hate any of the finales.

Princess Alice · 2012-01-28 19:58:41

Oh, I didn't hate any of them. I just didn't enjoy them as much as the other episodes.

Anonus · 2012-01-28 20:00:34

I think the only Davies-era one that I like is "The Sound of Drums"/"Last of the Time Lords" (I skipped over "Utopia" when re-watching them, because it's pretty tangential even within that story.). Maybe "Army of Ghosts"/"Doomsday" as well (the latter has the whole "Daleks have no concept of elegance!" exchange).

Tachyon · 2012-01-28 20:09:17

I liked "The Parting of the Ways" a lot, even though the end was cheesy as. "Bad Wolf" was weird, but I liked all the references to different TV shows.

"Army of Ghosts" was OK, "Doomsday" was great fun, although there are a lot of better episodes.

"Utopia" was wonderful, and so was "The Sound of Drums". The ending of "The Last of the Time Lords" kind of wrecked it for me, but I think it could have been saved by a little more build-up and a little more explanation. It was just too much out of nowhere for my liking.

"The Stolen Earth" and "Journey's End" were OK, not fabulous. Bit overblown.

"The End of Time" was kind of OTT, but entertaining enough for what it was. It was nothing if not a good send-off for Ten, but they really did squeeze it for every drop of sentimentality they could manage.

"The Pandorica Opens" was absolutely inspired, while "The Big Bang" was pretty clever but aspects of it annoyed me.

"The Wedding of River Song" was alright. Lots of good moments, but most of it felt very self-consciously artificial, which was odd.

Anonus · 2012-01-28 20:11:38

"Bad Wolf" was a good parody to me (also Jack Harkness!), while the part of "The Parting of the Ways" I liked the most was Rose becoming the Bad Wolf, even though her distribution of "Bad Wolf" through time and space was weird to me.

Tachyon · 2012-01-28 20:16:45

I liked the "bad wolf" thing. I think they relied too much upon the use of arc words, but it was kinda cool.

Even as he said it, I thought the "I think you need a Doctor" was probably the worst line of the entire season, but I so didn't care. Best RTD finale, hands down.

Princess Alice · 2012-01-28 20:20:07

In retrospect, I think the thing that bugged me most about "The Last of the Time Lords" was the whole reset button technique.

The events shown in that episode and the preceding ones weren't that OTT, but they were OTT enough that you could tell it was going to end with them never having happened.

Anonus · 2012-01-28 20:24:29

I admit last time I watched it I nearly cried at the part where the Doctor tearfully begs the Master to regenerate, even though the only other alternative was life imprisonment in the TARDIS.

Tachyon · 2012-01-28 20:29:26

It was the "Tinkerbell Jesus" moment I didn't like. The crying bit might have been good, but I was too pissed off by that point to notice.

(That scene really annoyed me.)

Anonus · 2012-01-28 20:30:30

You mean the Doctor getting Paper Mario'd back to "youth" by the Archangel Network?

Tachyon · 2012-01-28 20:35:18

Yeah, that bit.

I wouldn't have minded if they'd explained why the Archangel Network somehow had the specific effect of de-aging him back to that specific point, making him glow, freeing him and making him fly, but as it was I was just like, WTF.

It didn't help that I was totally blindsided by the Archangel Network being used that way at all. I think I would have appreciated another whole episode's build up and foreshadowing.

Anonus · 2012-01-28 20:36:00

It struck me as rather out-of-nowhere initially as well.

Viani · 2012-01-29 02:38:43

Dr Whoville?

Anonus · 2012-01-30 03:28:11

...so apparently people think "Fear Her" is terrible.

millercross · 2012-01-30 03:40:56

my problem with the finales is that they always rely on a magic solution out of nowhere to make everything go away. It isn't the Doctor's wit and mind what makes the Daleks lose in most of those situations. It's Rose being a secret magical god, or the Archangel Network, or Donna suddenly having the brain of a timelord what does them in. In theory, I'd like the idea of the companions saving the world/universe and the Doctor inspiring them to do it. But in practice, it always makes the Doctor look incompetent and it always makes for a cheap resolution, really.

With that said, I enjoyed most of them. Doomsday in particularly was pretty fun because lolDalek and Cybermen banter. I liked Last of the Time Lords and thought it was pretty damn good, bizarre plot twist/resolution notwithstanding. Journey's End was good till they actually resolved Rose and Donna's plots.

Pandorica Opens and The Big Bang were my favourite episodes for a long time, if only because it manages to keep things relatively low key, considering the odds and stakes involved. That and it pretty much helps Rory become...well, Rory.

The Wedding of River Song was a bit flawed and I think it could've been a lot better if they had gone for a two part finale, personally. It's a bit too fast at times and solves everything in a good way, definetly (I freely admit that I was much more surprised than I should've been at how the Doctor evaded death) but it's restrained by the fact that it has to finish a season long plot in 45 minutes. And a rather mediocre one at that.

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