The Trash Heap of the Heapers' Hangout

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  • I never read it, so you can county me out too
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    I give that one a B-.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    The thing that annoys me about the "Caveman science fiction" people is that they never deal with hard cases.

    They never talk about the vivisection debates, or the ethics of building a nuclear bomb, or the many times people have used dangerous chemicals without being aware of side effects. It's always argh blargh fundie luddites don't want us to save lives with stem cell research.
  • edited 2015-08-11 16:49:21
    Ich bin ein jelly doughnut
    Odradek said:

    The thing that annoys me about the "Caveman science fiction" people is that they never deal with hard cases.


    They never talk about the vivisection debates, or the ethics of building a nuclear bomb, or the many times people have used dangerous chemicals without being aware of side effects. It's always argh blargh fundie luddites don't want us to save lives with stem cell research.
    It's very much a hot take from a position that isn't impermeable. One of those positions that a lot of western progressivism takes for granted.

    There are, thankfully, many (if underground) pieces out there that focus on flaws in western progressivism. Here's one primarily talking about anti-queer bigotry vs religion.
  • Sex Grips said:

    Odradek said:

    The thing that annoys me about the "Caveman science fiction" people is that they never deal with hard cases.


    They never talk about the vivisection debates, or the ethics of building a nuclear bomb, or the many times people have used dangerous chemicals without being aware of side effects. It's always argh blargh fundie luddites don't want us to save lives with stem cell research.
    It's very much a hot take from a position that isn't impermeable. One of those positions that a lot of western progressivism takes for granted.

    There are, thankfully, many (if underground) pieces out there that focus on flaws in western progressivism. Here's one primarily talking about anti-queer bigotry vs religion.
    I used to be super into this kind of discourse until someone pointed out to me that lots of these sorts of bloggers tend to lob rehashed homophobic rhetoric against people who are insufficiently Queer i.e. white gay or bi people

    not that there is anything wrong with that post, it's right on the money, but it just reminds me of things that make me wary
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    image
  • kill living beings
    science fiction as predictive is a stupid ideal anyway. futurology is impossible, what we got correct is mostly by dumb luck
  • my phone won't let me edit posts so just assume that I said "white cis gay and bi people"
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    Boob

    /obligatory
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Hi Tools

    How goes the Tools-being?
  • edited 2015-08-11 17:06:07
    Ich bin ein jelly doughnut
    naney said:

    Sex Grips said:

    Odradek said:

    The thing that annoys me about the "Caveman science fiction" people is that they never deal with hard cases.


    They never talk about the vivisection debates, or the ethics of building a nuclear bomb, or the many times people have used dangerous chemicals without being aware of side effects. It's always argh blargh fundie luddites don't want us to save lives with stem cell research.
    It's very much a hot take from a position that isn't impermeable. One of those positions that a lot of western progressivism takes for granted.

    There are, thankfully, many (if underground) pieces out there that focus on flaws in western progressivism. Here's one primarily talking about anti-queer bigotry vs religion.
    I used to be super into this kind of discourse until someone pointed out to me that lots of these sorts of bloggers tend to lob rehashed homophobic rhetoric against people who are insufficiently Queer i.e. white gay or bi people

    not that there is anything wrong with that post, it's right on the money, but it just reminds me of things that make me wary
    naney said:

    my phone won't let me edit posts so just assume that I said "white cis gay and bi people"

    Oh man, yeah, I've heard a lot about that. There's a lot of serious infighting in queer spaces for various (mostly bad) reasons, from what I hear listening to some people I follow. Blog format certainly doesn't help (it's even worse on Twitter).
  • edited 2015-08-11 17:05:48
    Ich bin ein jelly doughnut

    science fiction as predictive is a stupid ideal anyway. futurology is impossible, what we got correct is mostly by dumb luck

    I don't like it. Most Western predictive fiction is all new-age red scare military bullshit anyway. Even if it's done as an allegory, the attempt to mold it directly to real-world events locks the entire genre(?) into cynical political commentary. Granted, most of my experience is reading about new Modern/Future Warfare games...

    Aside, I wish I could find more whacked-out/far-future sci fi that doesn't immediately throw in AI, due to my Issues with Physicalism
  • My dreams exceed my real life

    science fiction as predictive is a stupid ideal anyway. futurology is impossible, what we got correct is mostly by dumb luck

    Science fiction isn't about glorified meteorology, it's about exploring trends and ideas in the present in an imaginary future.

    So yeah, I agree.
  • edited 2015-08-11 17:11:54

    why would the existence of AI be inherently physicalist?

    the existence of an intelligence without a soul/whatever would not preclude intelligences with a soul/whatever

    not that I believe in souls or anything
  • edited 2015-08-11 17:12:34

    my copy of the left hand of darkness has an essay by the author about this whole predictive sci-fi thing at the beginning it's pretty good
  • I wish drafts wouldn't autosave on mobile
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.


    dark souls
  • Hi Tools


    How goes the Tools-being?
    The Tools-being is in pain.

    I trapped my left ring finger between some chairs and a metal trolley thing yesterday.

    My finger is now turning purple.

  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    uh...that's not good.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    why would the existence of AI be inherently physicalist?

    the existence of an intelligence without a soul/whatever would not preclude intelligences with a soul/whatever

    not that I believe in souls or anything
    Relevant
  • Well, the fleshy bit below my top knuckle is slightly purple.

    I can move it about, but if I touch it then it's really sore.
  • edited 2015-08-11 17:22:57
    Ich bin ein jelly doughnut
    naney said:

    why would the existence of AI be inherently physicalist?

    the existence of an intelligence without a soul/whatever would not preclude intelligences with a soul/whatever

    not that I believe in souls or anything

    Depends on how you define Artificial Intelligence, I guess, though in my case (which is probably what you meant too) I mean like, sentience; something that Actually Has Feelings/human-equivalent empathy/etc. but has been manufactured knowledgeably by people. I guess in my head I think that if sentience can be reproduced perfectly through manufacturing, and the electric/mechanical/etc. system that produces sentience is understood, it would either mean that souls are just redundant existences with supernatural priveleges, or they just don't exist, since human sentience would just be an equivalent biomechanical system. I feel this sort of thing has extremely massive implications and while I'm getting better at ignoring them I still think it's jarring for this to be simply a trope taken for granted within science fiction.

    Plus I like thinking about workarounds for synthetic sentience/cyborgism/etc.
    Tools said:

    Hi Tools


    How goes the Tools-being?
    The Tools-being is in pain.

    I trapped my left ring finger between some chairs and a metal trolley thing yesterday.

    My finger is now turning purple.

    Ah jeez. Get well soon.
  • Somehow bruised my left thumb, too

    Clumsy Tools is clumsy.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    There are Christian physicalists who just think God will recreate all of us in eternal new bodies after the second coming.

    yntkt
  • Odradek said:

    There are Christian physicalists who just think God will recreate all of us in eternal new bodies after the second coming.


    yntkt
    now this is a theological position I like
  • kill living beings
    naney said:

    my copy of the left hand of darkness has an essay by the author about this whole predictive sci-fi thing at the beginning it's pretty good

    This? http://www.theliterarylink.com/leguinintro.html
  • kill living beings
    leguin's so great
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    I should read that book sometime
  • edited 2015-08-11 17:45:15
    Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    My favorite futurist idea is the one that says that every room and house would have a picturephone, and we could talk to each other as if we were in the same room or whatever.

    And now everyone just uses SMS. "Who predicted the return of the telegram?" as Warren Ellis said.
  • edited 2015-08-11 17:46:03
    Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I don't think the problem is that science fiction predicts the future badly.

    I think the problem is that we expect it to do so. We want science fiction to predict the future.
  • Ich bin ein jelly doughnut
    i'm gonna have to read that segment.
    Odradek said:

    There are Christian physicalists who just think God will recreate all of us in eternal new bodies after the second coming.


    yntkt
    I vaguely remember reading about this. IIRC Olde Christians, at some point, even had a particular burial tradition where they'd destroy the body in a specific way because they figured then it couldn't be resurrected.
  • I read The Left Hand of Darkness a few weeks ago, it was good stuff. Although like all scifi from the 60s you can definitely taste the Cold War on it.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    Stop licking fucking books, Haven.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    bibliophilia
  • edited 2015-08-11 18:15:29
    Ich bin ein jelly doughnut
  • kill living beings

    Broodhollow (not in development because period piece = too $$$)

    nice
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Odradek said:

    There are Christian physicalists who just think God will recreate all of us in eternal new bodies after the second coming.


    yntkt
    Yep, this is the doctrine of my faith.
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    Sex Grips said:

    i'm gonna have to read that segment.


    Odradek said:

    There are Christian physicalists who just think God will recreate all of us in eternal new bodies after the second coming.


    yntkt
    I vaguely remember reading about this. IIRC Olde Christians, at some point, even had a particular burial tradition where they'd destroy the body in a specific way because they figured then it couldn't be resurrected.
    Neat!  I didn't know that.  
  • MachSpeed said:

    Stop licking fucking books, Haven.

    You're a Libra too, you know we can't help it
  • ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    BOOKS ARE NOT TO BE LICKED.
  • edited 2015-08-11 18:23:26
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    SERIOUSLY, THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU DO WITH BOOKS.
  • edited 2015-08-11 18:23:43
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    TRIPLEPOSTS WILL CONTIUE UNTIL BOOK-LICKING STOPS.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    I hope Chris Straub is getting royalties for the Sy Fy series.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Aliroz said:

    Odradek said:

    There are Christian physicalists who just think God will recreate all of us in eternal new bodies after the second coming.


    yntkt
    Yep, this is the doctrine of my faith.
    I did not know this.
  • That is one of the general ideas of Mormonism yes.
  • im a libra and i enjoy devouring books. just eating them whole and swalllowing them.
  • edited 2015-08-11 18:35:06
    ...And even when your hope is gone
    move along, move along, just to make it through
    (2015 self)
    All bodies will be perfect for us in the milennium.  

    I have wondered about people who would prefer being handicapped in some way, but I think that the important bit is "perfect for us", so if that is what they truly wish and if that is what would be for them perfect, it is how they will be.  Not a lot has been revealed on this point, though, so that last sentence is just my speculation.
  • image Wee yea erra chs hymmnos mea.
    All Books Must Be Eaten
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