The Trash Heap of the Heapers' Hangout

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  • spoiler alert the entire body of marxist thought is an elaborate scheme to troll specifically me
  • meow meow meowtherfuckers
    naney said:

    nah man like

    there's this emphasis on PEOPLE NEED TO FEEL LIKE THEY ARE MAKING USEFUL THINGS OR ELSE THEIR LIVES WILL HAVE NO PURPOSE

    like, people aren't their jobs dude

    and like, job satisfaction has a lot more to do with how your coworkers are than to do with what you're actually doing

    same

    i dislike the notion that people are only worth something if they are 'useful to society' aka useful at upholding a capitalist system (though i just realized i misinterpreted your post, seeing as you're criticizing communism) but fuck you if you're trying to make any social changes, you're just a useless hippie 

    that isn't to say i really support communism, and also i know literally nothing about politics so take anything i say with a grain of salt
  • naney said:

    spoiler alert the entire body of marxist thought is an elaborate scheme to troll specifically me

    Karl Marx was Lil B the whole time
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    naney said:

    nah man like

    there's this emphasis on PEOPLE NEED TO FEEL LIKE THEY ARE MAKING USEFUL THINGS OR ELSE THEIR LIVES WILL HAVE NO PURPOSE

    like, people aren't their jobs dude

    and like, job satisfaction has a lot more to do with how your coworkers are than to do with what you're actually doing

    This is what I mean by stereotyping human behaviour and being framed in dated terms. People need to feel fulfilled and have a sense that they're doing something good, preferably for themselves and others, and making them work primarily for the benefit of a small number of superiors with relatively little recompense sort of acts contrary to this desire unless there's some kind of abstract carrot/stick thing going on to obfuscate the issue.

    The problem is, as you said, people are not what they do, and how they seek fulfilment and purpose is more complicated than money. Now, part of this comes from the fact that the whole structure of society and industry is essentially geared to self-perpetuate, usually towards oppressive ends, but the fact of the matter is that unless we can do whatever we want then we will never entirely define ourselves by "what we do" in the labour/market sense if we have any real sense of internal value.

    So yeah, big holes in there.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Joyeux said:

    naney said:

    nah man like

    there's this emphasis on PEOPLE NEED TO FEEL LIKE THEY ARE MAKING USEFUL THINGS OR ELSE THEIR LIVES WILL HAVE NO PURPOSE

    like, people aren't their jobs dude

    and like, job satisfaction has a lot more to do with how your coworkers are than to do with what you're actually doing

    same

    i dislike the notion that people are only worth something if they are 'useful to society' aka useful at upholding a capitalist system (though i just realized i misinterpreted your post, seeing as you're criticizing communism) but fuck you if you're trying to make any social changes, you're just a useless hippie 

    that isn't to say i really support communism, and also i know literally nothing about politics so take anything i say with a grain of salt
    The beau is pretty left-leaning, but obviously not a Marxist.

    I am of a similar persuasion, but more so, and honestly I think that both orthodox Marxism and late-stage capitalism have a serious "you are job! work for system!" problem inherent in their rhetoric and functions.
  • and the thing is that this whole theory of alienation seems to be pretty key to "why capitalism is bad and how communism will make things better"

    so like while i was going into this liking the endgoal of the communist utopia now that's looking like it doesn't have much to stand on
  • Well an ideal dismantling of the capitalist system would remove most of the "you are your career" mentality as a side effect, but I am not someone you speak to when you want practical solutions in the short or long term.
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    I'm a magical girl after all!
  • honestly the world would be a much better place if everyone got off on being bossed around

    BDSM-based society make it happen
  • it'll be like Gor but with safewords and less misogyny and pulpy fiction stuff and so yeah not a lot like Gor
  • meow meow meowtherfuckers
    i wish society would put less emphasis on having leadership skills, because i have absolutely no charisma or intimidation skill and i'd really rather just follow someone's else's orders as long as they're sensible

     but that makes me a ~sheep~


  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    naney said:

    and the thing is that this whole theory of alienation seems to be pretty key to "why capitalism is bad and how communism will make things better"

    so like while i was going into this liking the endgoal of the communist utopia now that's looking like it doesn't have much to stand on

    To be fair, Marx was trying to explain why he thought that the borderline slave labour (and actual slave labour) of factories and plantations in the Gilded Age was evil in lofty philosophical terms so as to justify it to the kind of people who would actually read his papers. The basic animus is, if you are made to do something that you don't want to do because someone with power over you says so, that's wrong. All the rest is either elaboration or Marx trying to shoehorn social justice ideas into his pet fields of macroeconomics and historiography.
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    In the name of The Light, I'll set you free!
  • edited 2014-09-20 06:16:53

    punk is a racist, misogynistic and homophobic art form, a bland, manufactured form of suburban white boy "rebellion" and it was never anything else
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    naney said:

    punk is a racist, misogynistic and homophobic art form, a bland, manufactured form of suburban white boy rebellion and it was never anything else

    Ehhhh... not really, no? But it has been whitewashed in retrospect, and the uglier parts of it have stayed around surprisingly long where people forget the positive parts of it.
  • meow meow meowtherfuckers
    it did eventually come to inspire the grunge and riot grrl movement, so it did have its uses i suppose
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    My favorite punk band is The KLF
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Although The Sex Pistols were a manufactured group. But they also posed for Peter Christopherson in some alarmingly homoerotic situations and Lydon was a rabid reggae and art-prog fanboy, so...
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Joyeux said:

    it did eventually come to inspire the grunge and riot grrl movement, so it did have its uses i suppose

    And lest we forget post-punk at large, and weirdos like Dog-Faced Hermans and God Is My Co-Pilot.
  • edited 2014-09-20 06:22:43
    ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    John Lydon's best work was when he did "World Destruction" with Timezone and Afrika Bambaataa. This is simple fact.

    also I can count on one hand punk bands that don't either sound like every other punk band or are actively harmful, many are both. I think punk is better for the genres it spawned (which I think are almost uniformly better) than anything it did itself.

    Apparently Jocelyn is the one I use to talk about rock music now, idk.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    "Actively harmful"?
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
  • edited 2014-09-20 06:25:05
    ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE

    "Actively harmful"?

    like actually write lyrics that are racist, homophobic, whatever. Either co- or overtly.

    I'm exaggerating with the "on one hand" thing, but not by much. Especially not in my personal experience.
  • meow meow meowtherfuckers
    speaking of

    why don't i ever see anything that talks about what a wife-beating, homophobic, woman hating asshole eminem is 
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”

    "Actively harmful"?

    like actually write lyrics that are racist, homophobic, whatever. Either co- or overtly.

    I'm exaggerating with the "on one hand" thing, but not by much. Especially not in my personal experience.
    Ehhhhh...

    Really now? And do we mean pervasively offensive or casually insulting or questionable on rare occasions?
  • we're all too busy not talking about eminem
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Joyeux said:

    speaking of


    why don't i ever see anything that talks about what a wife-beating, homophobic, woman hating asshole eminem is 
    You're not looking hard enough. I am serious. A lot of people hate his guts.
  • edited 2014-09-20 06:32:49
    ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    There is some indication that the man has changed, but also plenty that he hasn't.

    IDK, Eminem still gets held up as "the only good white rapper" (for whatever reason) and that affords him a much larger amount of media protection than someone in his position might otherwise get.

    Notable white rappers tend to be assholes in general for whatever reason. Action Bronson is a dick too and Mac Miller used to be.

    I think Yelawolf is a decent dude tho.

    "Actively harmful"?

    like actually write lyrics that are racist, homophobic, whatever. Either co- or overtly.

    I'm exaggerating with the "on one hand" thing, but not by much. Especially not in my personal experience.
    Ehhhhh...

    Really now? And do we mean pervasively offensive or casually insulting or questionable on rare occasions?
    Either or.

    I'm well aware I'm biased against punk music and guitar music in general in the first place, but there's a lot of stuff out there that is either straight up something-ist or just boringly nihilistic. And I do consider "boringly nihilistic" to be actively harmful, yeah, not in the same way racist or sexist lyrics are, but it is.
  • meow meow meowtherfuckers

    Joyeux said:

    speaking of


    why don't i ever see anything that talks about what a wife-beating, homophobic, woman hating asshole eminem is 
    You're not looking hard enough. I am serious. A lot of people hate his guts.
    i know a lot of people that like him or that used to be like 'eminem is the only good rapper' and i'm just like. hmmmm. HMMMM. i wonder why that might be.

    granted, i heard this in middle school and high school, but i also just got out of high school
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”

    Either or.


    I'm well aware I'm biased against punk music and guitar music in general in the first place, but there's a lot of stuff out there that is either straight up something-ist or just boringly nihilistic. 
    "Boringly nihilistic," yes, but the accusations of blanket "-ism"s is on the unfair side. It's sort of like pointing at rap and screaming about how misogynistic and materialistic it is, for comparison.

    And mind you, I don't care for a lot of punk. I'm just sayin'.
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    This is even ignoring the fact that Eminem's rap style is hugely derivative of a couple other people (less popular, black, Redman in particular) and that a lot of his music is just not very good.

    Dude can rap well, like, sometimes, but technical proficiency should logically only take you so far. 

    If we lived in a world free of racial and economic factors, I think Eminem and Immortal Technique would be about as famous.
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    also I think it's fucking crazy that of the two white acts featured on Soundbombing II, it was Eminem and not Company Flow that got famous.

    Eminem isn't an awful MC, he's even a good one at times, but even laying aside the fact that he's a terrible person, El-P is leagues beyond him.
  • im immortal technique im obnoxious
    hella people telling me to stop it
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    oh Kool Keith, Kool Keith was the other black rapper I was thinking of that Eminem bites super hard.

    At least he namechecks Keith on "Monster" though.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    El-P is fantastic. He also generally seems like an OK guy, although I know little about his personal life.
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    Immortal Technique's music is not quite my thing but I have to respect a man that can rap extremely well in two different languages and also just builds shelters for the homeless as a side project.
  • immortal technique is a pretty good pseudonym
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    Sometimes I get creeped out at how the Walt Disney Company wants to be your friend but they are not very nice and neither was their namesake
  • edited 2014-09-20 06:42:56
    ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE

    El-P is fantastic. He also generally seems like an OK guy, although I know little about his personal life.

    He's a Libertarian, our political views don't quite line up.

    But El-P is, strictly technique wise, probably among the best rappers ever.

    case in point, since naney brought up "The Last Huzzah"

    Straight shots of the sterno plus, wick stuck in the bottle empty
    Three blocks to the target we lit it and lob it hard at Sentry
    Four pigs of the oinking variety guard the market entry
    Five minutes of flames and then aim the whistle my father lent me
    Six o'clock we meet up and divvy the shells among the youngins
    Seven continents in the shit and smoke like it's fuckin London
    Just before they ate up the funds our harmony love was bumping
    Now government issued nines are aimed at where your blood is pumped in
    Tend to mop up these muttering zombies talkapieces
    El'll vent on you harder than Fukushima breezes
    In the end when a dozen or so ajourn to reason
    You'll find the verdict return corrupted in murderous seasons
    With inverted 31's and other unlucky omens
    Thats why I chug 7 and 7's til I'm fucking homeless
    And every time you think my fifteen minutes of fame are up
    I'll spit another sixteen to prove to the world I fucking own it
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    I love that number gag.
  • Anonus said:

    Sometimes I get creeped out at how the Walt Disney Company wants to be your friend but they are not very nice and neither was their namesake

    they don't want you to be their friend they want you to buy shit

    it's a corporation
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    actually "The Last Huzzah" is notable for having two good white rappers on it, the ever-elusive Despot has the kickoff verse.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    I saw a radio session with El-P, Despot and Mr. Mothafuckin' Exquire on YouTube. 'Twas cool.
  • ULTRA-RAD HACKER REFUGEE FROM THE FUTURE
    Despot raps like he's trying to get Meek Mill's attention.
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    naney said:

    Anonus said:

    Sometimes I get creeped out at how the Walt Disney Company wants to be your friend but they are not very nice and neither was their namesake

    they don't want you to be their friend they want you to buy shit

    it's a corporation

    They still feel like they want to suck you into this sort of Disney bubble


  • i think about this track a lot
  • meow meow meowtherfuckers
    naney said:

    Anonus said:

    Sometimes I get creeped out at how the Walt Disney Company wants to be your friend but they are not very nice and neither was their namesake

    they don't want you to be their friend they want you to buy shit

    it's a corporation
    a corporation whose image is completely based around being your friend and being ~the happiest place on earth~

    i hate everything disney stands for and how people will defend anything it does because they grew up on it, but also

    i totally would 100% go to disney world if i had the money. i would go over and over. 
  • edited 2014-09-20 06:50:19
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    But yeah, because I think it kind of got passed over: As asinine as punk could be as a genre and culture, I find the assertion that it was solely created by and for privileged cishet white boys disturbing for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that it lets the bigots who did and do exist within the culture win out in their conception of what punk was and is.
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