The Trash Heap of the Heapers' Hangout

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  • Route 666 said:

    It's been a while since I made any gay jokes about Naney


    I should do that again sometime

    Also nobody ever makes queer jokes at my expense besides myself, for some reason
    I mean, even as someone who is also on the LGBT spectrum I feel pretty uncomfortable making fun of anyone but myself on those grounds even in lightheartedness.
  • Cutxerk said:

    That just seems weird, not titillating.

    2sexy4u

    my understanding is that it's supposed to be a parody of a hentai protagonist's outfit or something. It's sort of treated as a joke in-show, but some people will find it tasteless regardless.

    Also, it's like, alive, which is admittedly kinda weird.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    That's understandable.

    For me, though, humor has always been a big part of how I cope with bad feelings...and of course, feeling like you're trapped in a body that doesn't suit you is a bad feeling.

    I dunno.
  • Ludmila said:

    i am entirely indifferent to anime fanservice unless it starts getting in the way of other things, in which case i dislike it immensely.

    well I mean

    for most of the episode our protagonist dresses rather normally but then suddenly.

    A lot of people have had a problem with the show on those grounds (which is a topic I'm sort of sick of talking about, so I'll just leave you to draw your own conclusions).
    she looks like carly carmine's kid sister or something
  • Sredni Vashtar said: Jabberwock said:i'd be interested to read your thoughts on YA fiction if you're willing to post them, Sredni.


    I used to rant about this a lot over on TVT—nrjxll and I made for an interesting tag-team—but by this point I'm a little out of practice at explaining myself, so this might take awhile...
    It is only fairly recently that "young adult" and "middle-grade" fiction have been set aside as separate marketing categories from children's and adult literature. From a pure marketing perspective, this makes sense: Certain age brackets gravitate towards certain kinds of stories, organising books that way simplifies some things, and so forth. But I do not think that this is good for either writers or readers.
    In particular, the treatment of "Young Adult fiction" as if it were a genre is highly problematic for me. By treating all fiction for teenagers, regardless of genre, as if it were one single genre because it is simpler to market it that way, you elide differences and insult your readers. The trend chasing in the wake of successes like Twilight and The Hunger Games have only agitated this, I think: Ultra-specific trend genres like "teen dystopian romance" are singled out while the rest is treated as a homogenous mass.
    What is even more insidious is how this is drilled into the heads of young writers. Certain types of plots are favoured above others because they are genre conventions of an artificial genre. A protagonist in a novel written for a teenage readership must not be too young or too old, for example, for fear of "alienating readers;" one must be very careful about how one writes about sexuality, but a total dearth of romance is prudish and unrealistic; and so on. It is not unlike the instruction sheet they give you to write a Harlequin romance.
    I fucking loathe marketing culture.

    Lindsay Ellis made a rather funny comment a while back, proposing a dystopian YA novel where on every girl's sixteenth birthday- or, in keeping with the trends of YA, her Selection Day- she must choose three men, to screw, marry...
    and kill.

    And when you think about it that's the basic plot of a distressing number of them, of course, with many more proper nouns made of common words. I liked The Hunger Games overall but it's hard to ignore the negative impact it's had.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    @ Sredni: thanks for that.

    i am probably not as informed about publishers' criteria as i should be, but that does sound troubling.

    i kind of want to write for a younger audience (not sure whether i should go YA or children's fiction, or whether i can do both) so this is the kind of thing i need to be aware of.
  • Route 666 said:

    That's understandable.


    For me, though, humor has always been a big part of how I cope with bad feelings...and of course, feeling like you're trapped in a body that doesn't suit you is a bad feeling.

    I dunno.
    You're sort of like a pearl in an oyster. All you have to do is hide in an ocean and wait for a tourist to break you open or something.

    That was a really lame joke I'm sorry I'm tired.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Ludmila said:

    I mean, even as someone who is also on the LGBT spectrum I feel pretty uncomfortable making fun of anyone but myself on those grounds even in lightheartedness.


    same
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Ugh, I'm too spoiled, aren't I? I feel bad for buying this smartphone... >_>
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    Cutxerk said:

    Route 666 said:

    That's understandable.


    For me, though, humor has always been a big part of how I cope with bad feelings...and of course, feeling like you're trapped in a body that doesn't suit you is a bad feeling.

    I dunno.
    You're sort of like a pearl in an oyster. All you have to do is hide in an ocean and wait for a tourist to break you open or something.

    That was a really lame joke I'm sorry I'm tired.
    Well, you get points for effort, at least.

    *hands you $10 CA Marketplace gift card*
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    My first attempt at a Touhou game ends with Patchouli tearing me a new one

    I guess I should've seen that coming
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Route 666 said:

    Ugh, I'm too spoiled, aren't I? I feel bad for buying this smartphone... >_>

    this is my fault isn't it?

    it's ok to have a smartphone.  Really.

    i spend money on other things (like i recently spent a ton of money on clothing), it's really a question of weighing up your priorities
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    But Imi, how do you tear yourself a new one?
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    self harm
  • i need to get a phone once i get a job
  • Ludmila said:

    i am entirely indifferent to anime fanservice unless it starts getting in the way of other things, in which case i dislike it immensely.

    well I mean

    for most of the episode our protagonist dresses rather normally but then suddenly.

    A lot of people have had a problem with the show on those grounds (which is a topic I'm sort of sick of talking about, so I'll just leave you to draw your own conclusions).
    she looks like carly carmine's kid sister or something
    I don't know who that is.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022

    Route 666 said:

    Ugh, I'm too spoiled, aren't I? I feel bad for buying this smartphone... >_>

    this is my fault isn't it?

    it's ok to have a smartphone.  Really.

    i spend money on other things (like i recently spent a ton of money on clothing), it's really a question of weighing up your priorities
    It's not your fault

    I just feel weird for having something that so many other people don't, somehow

    Granted, with the sales that were going on I only ended up paying for the case and screen protector, so it's not like I blew a bunch of cash on it

    And my old phone was getting to the point of being literally unusable anyway >_>
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Ludmila said:

    Cutxerk said:

    That just seems weird, not titillating.

    2sexy4u

    my understanding is that it's supposed to be a parody of a hentai protagonist's outfit or something. It's sort of treated as a joke in-show, but some people will find it tasteless regardless.

    Also, it's like, alive, which is admittedly kinda weird.
    This show sounds amazingly ridiculous and ridiculously amazing.


    Cutxerk said:


    Lindsay Ellis made a rather funny comment a while back, proposing a dystopian YA novel where on every girl's sixteenth birthday- or, in keeping with the trends of YA, her Selection Day- she must choose three men, to screw, marry... and kill.


    And when you think about it that's the basic plot of a distressing number of them, of course, with many more proper nouns made of common words. I liked The Hunger Games overall but it's hard to ignore the negative impact it's had.
    As indifferent as I am to much of her comedic schtick, Ellis did put her money where her mouth was with that whole "Fifty Shades Of Green" thing, and her commentary on YA in general tends to be spot on, so I'll give her props.

    She also managed to assemble most of the interesting people on Blip under the Chez Apocalypse banner, meaning that I never actually have to come within shouting distance of TGWTG ever again. Thank you, Based Goddess.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    I mean

    I knew it was Patchy who would do me in

    It was revenge for all those hundreds of avatars
  • Ludmila said:

    Cutxerk said:

    That just seems weird, not titillating.

    2sexy4u

    my understanding is that it's supposed to be a parody of a hentai protagonist's outfit or something. It's sort of treated as a joke in-show, but some people will find it tasteless regardless.

    Also, it's like, alive, which is admittedly kinda weird.
    This show sounds amazingly ridiculous and ridiculously amazing.
    I like it a lot, and while the fanservice is a minor factor for me (I am a sucker, what can I say) I would still like it a lot even if it was absent, so, take that as you will.

    Speaking of which the second episode came out today, I should watch it.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Route 666 said:

    It's not your fault


    I just feel weird for having something that so many other people don't, somehow

    Granted, with the sales that were going on I only ended up paying for the case and screen protector, so it's not like I blew a bunch of cash on it

    And my old phone was getting to the point of being literally unusable anyway >_>

    sounds fair to me

    i'm worried my phone is getting too old; the alarm didn't go off yesterday morning which meant i was late for class (luckily a fire drill woke me)
  • Ludmila said:

    Ludmila said:

    i am entirely indifferent to anime fanservice unless it starts getting in the way of other things, in which case i dislike it immensely.

    well I mean

    for most of the episode our protagonist dresses rather normally but then suddenly.

    A lot of people have had a problem with the show on those grounds (which is a topic I'm sort of sick of talking about, so I'll just leave you to draw your own conclusions).
    she looks like carly carmine's kid sister or something
    I don't know who that is.
    yu-gi-oh 5DS character, a ditzy reporter who succumbs to evil and wears a similar outfit. she also has twippy hair but it's longer
  • *googles*

    don't see the resemblance really. In either normal or Dark Signer mode.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”

    @ Sredni: thanks for that.

    i am probably not as informed about publishers' criteria as i should be, but that does sound troubling.

    i kind of want to write for a younger audience (not sure whether i should go YA or children's fiction, or whether i can do both) so this is the kind of thing i need to be aware of.

    Honestly, just write what you want and don't compromise. Most of these constraints and demands are just as much bad advice and internalised notions as they are actual expectations.
  • yeeeaaaah you're right

    idk why my mind made that mental association
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022


    sounds fair to me

    i'm worried my phone is getting too old; the alarm didn't go off yesterday morning which meant i was late for class (luckily a fire drill woke me)

    My old phone had started doing this thing where, upon dropping its signal, it wouldn't connect again until I turned it off and back on.

    Which wouldn't be that big a deal, except I didn't know it happened until after the fact and I kept missing phone calls. :\
  • when i was a wee lad i could not stand sad/dystopian stories and i had a strong dislike of most human protagonists, which kept me away from lots of the truly obnoxious books hackcoughthegiverhackcough
  •  the truly obnoxious books hackcoughthegiverhackcough


    take that back or I'll ensure you never cough again

  • The Giver iiiiiiiiiiiis....

    well, I've never read it, but I know by its reputation that it's divisive to say the least.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch

    Honestly, just write what you want and don't compromise. Most of these constraints and demands are just as much bad advice and internalised notions as they are actual expectations.


    i see.

    honestly my main motivation for writing children's/YA fiction is that i want to write the kind of books i'd have liked to read as a kid
    Route 666 said:


    My old phone had started doing this thing where, upon dropping its signal, it wouldn't connect again until I turned it off and back on.

    Which wouldn't be that big a deal, except I didn't know it happened until after the fact and I kept missing phone calls. :\


    yeah, when it stops being fit for purpose it's definitely time to replace it
  • also you know what book I thought about earlier today that I hadn't previously thought about since like third grade?

    Marco's Millions, that weird sci-fi book with the dimension travel and the hairs being keys to other worlds and the swinging boat thing and the mantis people.
  • edited 2013-10-11 02:03:05

    90% of books featuring dystopias are pretentious, dull and full of hamfisted pointless allegory #theindesputabletruth
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i haven't read The Giver

    i mostly preferred books with animal protagonists, but that was less the case as i got older
  • animal protagonists were a must for me until i read all of the books in the st. paul library system that had them


    basically i've always been a huge furfag
  • edited 2013-10-11 02:07:13
    I dunno if it's responsible for the unfortunate trends in children's literature as it was written long before dystopia was the norm, but even if it is in some way responsible I'd prefer to think it avoids many of the pratfalls of the YA Dystopia genre. For one thing, even if it is somewhat heavy handed it is tackling a rather more subtle moral dilemma than the average "oh no it forces teenagers to kill each other or something." Especially considering its target audience, it tackles some pretty heavy stuff that doesn't have an easy answer and could conceivably happen, and that's why even if it is pretty simple and even if there are better explorations of the same general concepts out there, The Giver is one of my favorite books.
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    I liked anything weird

    Still do
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    funny thing, a bunch of people in class yesterday suggested i should write a dystopian short story for my big Writing Project

    i don't know tho, i feel like for a dystopia you kind of need a political point, and that point should come first, otherwise you're just wasting people's time with it
  • funny thing, a bunch of people in class yesterday suggested i should write a dystopian short story for my big Writing Project

    i don't know tho, i feel like for a dystopia you kind of need a political point, and that point should come first, otherwise you're just wasting people's time with it

    Never stopped anyone before!
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    I had to read The Giver in sixth grade

    I hated it
  • Animal protagonist books I've read, hm..

    some Redwall books (particularly, I remember The Legend of Luke offhand), and of course the Warrior Cats series.
  • edited 2013-10-11 02:06:18
    I used to read a lot of the Redwall series. They were pretty silly and obviously formulaic but they were altogether pretty fun reads.

    ^ninja'd, surprisingly.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    my favourite children's author was Dick King Smith, who mostly wrote about animals

    having said which, i really loved The Stray, which was about an elderly woman

    also Harriet's Hare where the hare in question came from outer space (shut up, it was awesome)
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”

    Honestly, just write what you want and don't compromise. Most of these constraints and demands are just as much bad advice and internalised notions as they are actual expectations.


    i see.

    honestly my main motivation for writing children's/YA fiction is that i want to write the kind of books i'd have liked to read as a kid
    That is the best motivation. Maybe I say that because that is why I create things, but I really do find it noble.

    I wish you the best of luck.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Thanks.
  • Cutxerk said:

    I dunno if it's responsible for the unfortunate trends in children's literature as it was written long before dystopia was the norm, but even if it is in some way responsible I'd prefer to think it avoids many of the pratfalls of the YA Dystopia genre. For one thing, even if it is somewhat heavy handed it is tackling a rather more subtle moral dilemma than the average "oh no it forces teenagers to kill each other or something." Especially considering its target audience, it tackles some pretty heavy stuff that doesn't have an easy answer and could conceivably happen, and that's why even if it is pretty simple and even if there are better explorations of the same general concepts out there, The Giver is one of my favorite books.

    But what I'm getting at here is that The Giver is quite a few cuts above the average Hunger Games knockoff, and this is not at all unrelated to the fact that it's pretty ambiguous if The Giver's world counts as a dystopia. Most YA dystopia books nowadays don't allow for any discussion or interpretation, and I appreciate that The Giver avoided patronizing its target audience.
  • I'm not even in a defensive mood right now I just kind of want to talk about stuff I like and why I like it.
  •  i feel like for a dystopia you kind of need a political point, and that point should come first, otherwise you're just wasting people's time with it

    ick ick ick ick ick don't do that, it's been done to death and it's crazy inflexible

    you know that dystopian books were good? the mortal engines series. They were set in a dystopia, but it was used as a backdrop for a story that explored a wide range of fascinating ideas and was hella entertaining to boot.
  • The sadness will last forever.
    Jerky and gum is now my new diet.
  • The sadness will last forever.
    Violent dystopias
  • edited 2013-10-11 02:12:30
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    I do not remember reading many books with animal or non-human protagonists when I was young, although I have always been more interested in non-human characters on principle.
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