3D Zelda games had an absolute mastery of atmosphere and "game feel;" I think people would be remiss to dismiss that.
ALTTP was fun but incredibly thin. Its dramatic moments only work the first time through and only if you're young or inexperienced enough with the series to spend a lot of time running around making no progress. The more guided, linear structure of 3D Zelda creates moments that still have emotional impact on replay.
I think people really over-glamourize a time when people did not know how to make games and did not have the space to explain how the game is played within the confines of the game.
I honestly agree that it is better design practice to let players figure things out on their own but by the same token Zelda is- and maybe this is just fanboyism- one of the more benign examples of overexplaining.
i dunno, i think the 2D games were harder, and that was part of why they never hooked me to the same degree
i consider myself a big fan of the series, but the stuff i like the most about it is aesthetic, or pertains to the story or the worldbuilding, rather than gameplay-related
I think people really over-glamourize a time when people did not know how to make games and did not have the space to explain how the game is played within the confines of the game.
Partially, but I also think it's a good design habit to "hide" tutorials where possible. Like, the player just thinks they're playing the game, but the scenario is designed to teach players how to work through the problems the game is about to put forth.
Monster Hunter does both tutorial types, but the way it does the hidden tutorial thing is in monster sequences. Monster Hunter 3 was really good in this respect, because the Great Jaggi has a narrow moveset that represents the essential kinds of attacks other monsters are most likely to have. Its tail whip comes in sets of two (like the majority of monster tail attacks), it has a lateral body slam attack (and you definitely need to know how to deal with those), a couple of basic frontal attacks, and an attack that clears one of its own flanks (again, very common).
By the time hunting a Great Jaggi is a familiar and comfortable encounter, the player knows the majority of attacks that are shared between monsters, so they can focus on learning about unique creature behaviours when they encounter new threats. This hidden tutorial approach also allows tutorials to be dispersed throughout a game, and for them to build upon one-another naturally.
incidentally i played Anodyne because people said it was a good Zelda, and expected to love it
it was ok, i didn't hate it, although i don't think i was in the right place emotionally for it, stuff like killing the fisherman upset me more than it should have, at another time i might have laughed that off
but yeah, the gameplay and artstyle obviously recall ALTTP, but the scenario and overall mood are very different. It lacked the aspects of ALTTP that most appealed to me.
i didn't finish the game, although i plan on doing so when i have some time to spare.
I found a lot to appreciate in Skyward Sword, just not that execution of directional sword combat. The way several pre-dungeon areas acted like their own dungeons was pretty good and I enjoyed most of the flying-related stuff. Plus the aesthetic is a pleasing compromise between the Wind Waker and Ocarina camps.
This is pretty much my entire opinion on the game in one paragraph.
i honestly have never understood why people get so annoyed with Navi
Fi rambles a bit, it's true, but it doesn't take up *that* much time, and you can skip through it
Navi wasn't that bad. Fi is absolutely obnoxious though, because you can't skip through it. Even while holding A button it crawls along at a torturous pace, and there's no way to autocomplete.
Personally, I really like the "just go out and explore things on your own" that the 2D Zeldas have.
I mean, OoT is fun and all but the forced story progression kinda doesn't appeal to me, honestly. No, I don't care about Events Having Emotional Impact or whatever
ALttP actually strikes a nice balance between the two extremes, I think. It gives you some guidance on where to go (by showing you where the dungeons are on the map, for instance) but nevertheless still lets you wander around and explore a lot.
It's a good game and all and I'm totally with most reasons for liking it it's just that it feels really shallow on replay. No other Zelda does that for me.
That reminds me of a bit in Minish Cap where you can fuse kinstones with someone who seems like he is from some faraway land and then warp to his home to help an old man who is cursed by a ghost.
The game does not let you exit the house and at first I figured the reason for that was that the warp sent you to a land far off from Hyrule that was not on the world map. I found the idea of warping to somewhere beyond the map really fascinating for some reason, probably because of all of the possibilities it raised.
Later on, you find out that the place you warp to was actually just part of the Cloud Tops and is really not that far off from Hyrule at all, which honestly kind of disappointed me.
^^ Do quests. Just keep doing quests until you get pointed to a higher-level area, then go there immediately. Quests turnins give more XP than monster kills.
From what I remember, fastest classes to level will be mage or hunter. Mage is probably quicker if you've played the game before and are comfortable playing a tricky class with high reward, but hunters could faceroll pretty much everything up to and including overworld elites and half the endgame even before it got the shit nerfed out of it. I expect it won't take more than a couple days anymore -- they sped up the XP scaling so much after raising the level cap so many times.
Do not under any circumstances pick warrior. Blizzard never quite forgave warriors for the Arcanite Reaper days, and they've been kind of crap at everything but tanking ever since.
Also, I'm probably near the end of Skyward Sword. I'm pretty much waiting for Ghirahim to waltz through that Gate of Time we fucking left open for no goddamn reason and abduct Zelda.
Like, that entire sequence I was going shut up Groose, stop talking Groose, STFU GROOSE LET ME WALK IN THIS PORTAL BEFORE BAD GUY SHOWS UP and the fucker just kept going. We wound up not getting ambushed (yet), but the stupid gate was hanging open the whole fucking time and is still open because Impa's lazy.
^^ Do quests. Just keep doing quests until you get pointed to a higher-level area, then go there immediately. Quests turnins give more XP than monster kills.
From what I remember, fastest classes to level will be mage or hunter. Mage is probably quicker if you've played the game before and are comfortable playing a tricky class with high reward, but hunters could faceroll pretty much everything up to and including overworld elites and half the endgame even before it got the shit nerfed out of it. I expect it won't take more than a couple days anymore -- they sped up the XP scaling so much after raising the level cap so many times.
Do not under any circumstances pick warrior. Blizzard never quite forgave warriors for the Arcanite Reaper days, and they've been kind of crap at everything but tanking ever since.
Not at all, no. "Anime" and "ovaries" are about the only things she has in common with Elena. Marin isn't even nearly as prone to pointless mortal peril!
Also, I'm probably near the end of Skyward Sword. I'm pretty much waiting for Ghirahim to waltz through that Gate of Time we fucking left open for no goddamn reason and abduct Zelda.
Like, that entire sequence I was going shut up Groose, stop talking Groose, STFU GROOSE LET ME WALK IN THIS PORTAL BEFORE BAD GUY SHOWS UP and the fucker just kept going. We wound up not getting ambushed (yet), but the stupid gate was hanging open the whole fucking time and is still open because Impa's lazy.
Also, I'm probably near the end of Skyward Sword. I'm pretty much waiting for Ghirahim to waltz through that Gate of Time we fucking left open for no goddamn reason and abduct Zelda.
Like, that entire sequence I was going shut up Groose, stop talking Groose, STFU GROOSE LET ME WALK IN THIS PORTAL BEFORE BAD GUY SHOWS UP and the fucker just kept going. We wound up not getting ambushed (yet), but the stupid gate was hanging open the whole fucking time and is still open because Impa's lazy.
Also, I'm probably near the end of Skyward Sword. I'm pretty much waiting for Ghirahim to waltz through that Gate of Time we fucking left open for no goddamn reason and abduct Zelda.
Like, that entire sequence I was going shut up Groose, stop talking Groose, STFU GROOSE LET ME WALK IN THIS PORTAL BEFORE BAD GUY SHOWS UP and the fucker just kept going. We wound up not getting ambushed (yet), but the stupid gate was hanging open the whole fucking time and is still open because Impa's lazy.
this is why you only play the early Zelda games
no
anyway Groose was great
seriously what's wrong with a little dialogue?
Fuck Groose.
And normally I don't mind a little dialogue (as long as it's not the biggest douche in the series spewing his passive-aggressive bullcrap while he muses on the impossibility of his creepy stalker crush bearing fruit). But while we're standing in front of an open gate to an unguarded Zelda, which the villain specifically told me he wanted and is probably following me to find, is not the fucking time. Like, if you want me to smile and nod while you vent your failed ego, do it before we drop the firewall you dumbass.
Comments
ALTTP was fun but incredibly thin. Its dramatic moments only work the first time through and only if you're young or inexperienced enough with the series to spend a lot of time running around making no progress. The more guided, linear structure of 3D Zelda creates moments that still have emotional impact on replay.
Fi rambles a bit, it's true, but it doesn't take up *that* much time, and you can skip through it
Do people just hate, like, ANY interruption in gameplay?
Like, Navi maybe interrupts you once or twice during the whole game if you're spending a lot of time running around aimlessly.
i consider myself a big fan of the series, but the stuff i like the most about it is aesthetic, or pertains to the story or the worldbuilding, rather than gameplay-related
it was ok, i didn't hate it, although i don't think i was in the right place emotionally for it, stuff like killing the fisherman upset me more than it should have, at another time i might have laughed that off
but yeah, the gameplay and artstyle obviously recall ALTTP, but the scenario and overall mood are very different. It lacked the aspects of ALTTP that most appealed to me.
i didn't finish the game, although i plan on doing so when i have some time to spare.
well, she was fun to play in Hyrule Warriors, that ought to have earned her some good will, at least?
I mean, OoT is fun and all but the forced story progression kinda doesn't appeal to me, honestly. No, I don't care about Events Having Emotional Impact or whatever
I thought the first game or even Wind Waker were better for it
The game does not let you exit the house and at first I figured the reason for that was that the warp sent you to a land far off from Hyrule that was not on the world map. I found the idea of warping to somewhere beyond the map really fascinating for some reason, probably because of all of the possibilities it raised.
Later on, you find out that the place you warp to was actually just part of the Cloud Tops and is really not that far off from Hyrule at all, which honestly kind of disappointed me.
like how i sunk hours on end into Skyrim but unless i was doing a major quest, i never felt like i'd actually *done* anything in that time
no
anyway Groose was great
seriously what's wrong with a little dialogue?
we've seen Zoras fight, Ruto wasn't completely out of nowhere
i was sceptical of Agitha but then i got to fight an army using giant glowing rhinoceros beetles