Discussion of TV Tropes

millercross · 2012-02-02 00:14:02

I'm not too fond of whining about it and talking about it all the time unless I'm talking to someone who I feel comfortable with.

Beholder · 2012-02-02 02:13:53

I won't mind possibly having a romance at some point in the future, but won't be unhappy if it won't happen. Besides, friendship is much better.

Tachyon · 2012-02-02 02:51:21

I stayed out of that thread because I'm not in a relationship and I figured posting about that would come off as whiny.

Viani · 2012-02-02 05:14:57

I thought about giving a couple people in the romance thread some dating advice...until I realized...I would never recommend any of those people to any girl (or guy) with how they go about in that thread.

lee4hmz · 2012-02-02 10:54:50

Yeah, they'd either whine about how everyone is out to get them like Chris-chan does, or they'd end up stalking people.

Anonus · 2012-02-02 18:47:08

Sometimes I feel kind of good that I never really went looking for love until Centie came along. I guess I'm lucky that she had been right in front of me for a while!

Tachyon · 2012-02-03 05:32:04

>I don't want to insult you, I just think that the person/people you are voluntarily working for and with is/are a joke.

I keep seeing variations on this. Surely it's apparent why I and the other mods might find this kind of remark kind of condescending and, well, insulting?

Anonus · 2012-02-03 05:59:07

...well, if it helps, I try not to talk badly about Eddie and co. in front of you.

Tachyon · 2012-02-03 06:14:38

Well, thanks.

Irene · 2012-02-03 09:50:46

> Saying it's not an insult.

> Putting it in an obviously(or subtle) insulting way.

Yeah, that. An insult is an insult is an insult. Wording it differently only sugarcoats the insult. Calling them a joke doesn't make it any better than saying you're working for horrible people. It'll get the same response as is. Look, I don't like all the decisions made, but insulting people ain't going to make 'em better. There's always a way to fix the problem without an insulting or condescending attitude. Unfortunately... not everyone does this. :|

millercross · 2012-02-03 10:22:05

To be honest, while I agree that that statement is incredibly condescending, I prefer a degree of honesty than someone jumping through hoops to appease people. If anything, the "I don't want to insult you" part sounds more annoying to me than the second clausule, if only because it comes as crippingly lacking in self awareness.

Obā-san · 2012-02-03 13:22:12

It is indeed a condescending and insulting statement.

I have also come, through my own observation, to believe it fervently.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-03 13:37:45

Naney, are you trying to imply that Glorious Edward is a joke?

Obā-san · 2012-02-03 13:38:31

Glorious Edward?

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-03 13:40:20

Yes, the leader of TVT

Obā-san · 2012-02-03 13:42:13

Oh, Snarky Dick Eddie and the Mod Squad?

And a joke would imply that it's funny, as opposed to just sad.

Viani · 2012-02-03 14:14:31

"Sincerity.exe has performed an illegal operation and must be shut down."

I don't dislike the mods or any of the decisions they made, I just wish the decisions made were...better.

Tachyon · 2012-02-03 15:46:57

Kind of what Juan said, but also kind of what Irene said. I mean, if you think the TVT staff are a joke, then OK, say that, and don't try to sugarcoat it with "but you're all OK as individuals" (or the equally pernicious "but some of you [sometimes named] are OK", which I've also seen). Collectively, we are the moderation, and we're all working for the administration, supporting the administration and enforcing administrative policies. If you think we're a joke, you think we're a joke. OK then. Well, it's not OK, but if it's what you really believe to be true then I'd rather skip the meaningless insincerity.

Granted, calling the TVT staff a joke to their faces isn't exactly a smart move if you want to stay on the wiki, and actively insulting them for the sake of being offensive is even less smart. Maybe this speaks poorly of us, but all the same, this is where I agree with Irene: you don't motivate people to be better by turning them against you, and like it or not, calling the staff a joke will predictably turn some of them against you.

I kinda do wonder how I'm actually expected to respond to something like Naney's statement up there. Are you expecting me to go "I'm very sorry you feel that way and that we haven't met with your expectations, and we'll do our best to improve", or "[passive-aggressive hangout-safe statement to the effect of] get fucked"?

I guess since it's me, the former, every time, and you'd be right in those expectations. You can expect similar from Morven, probably in a less timid and self-effacing manner. Fighteer and Eddie can be trusted to opt for the latter, and sometimes I wonder if that isn't why everyone picks up on their faults more.

But while I do want to improve and I am sorry for when we've let people down, I don't like being insulted, or hearing the people I work with insulted, and sticking a "but I don't want to insult any of you as individuals" on the end doesn't change it. So I guess I'm saying that if you're going to do that, just do what Naney did there and skip the no offence. It doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make what you have to say any pleasanter to hear, it's just pointless verbiage and an insult to our intelligence.

Obā-san · 2012-02-03 16:01:18

Granted, calling the TVT staff a joke to their faces isn't exactly a smart move if you want to stay on the wiki, and actively insulting them for the sake of being offensive is even less smart. Maybe this speaks poorly of us

Definitely not, insulting the mods is always a perfectly legit ban reason.

And for the longest time I was of the "I like the mods as individuals" persuasion, but then I lurked around a bit on Wiki Talk.

Urgh, I hate being so caustic.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-03 18:10:17

I like some of the mods as people.

I do not like Fighteer, Camacan, or blackcat very much. The former two moreso than the latter.

oh, Shimaspawn annoys me too, for reasons I have never been able to pin down.

millercross · 2012-02-03 18:27:55

I never liked the mods (With the exceptions that I've referred to before, such as Bobby and Morven) as people simply because I feel that often times, they can't separate their acting as a moderator and their acting as a person in a discussion and force things to go their way, rather than presenting a point, they present a mod hat.

I can't judge them as people. For all I know, Madrugada, Eddie et al might be very chill people when they're not moderating the site, but as far as I'm concerned, they're utterly incompetent at the job they hold and they can't seem to accept the fact that they make mistakes and run with whatever course of action they choose first rather than reconsidering till everything is going to hell and they've got everyone protesting at their doors. That is the exact problem that plagates TvT as a whole, which is the fact that they do not try to have any degree of foresight and understand the consequences of the actions they engage on, not to mention that they treat people who are not agreeing with them in the most condescending, holier than thou way they can muster.

I don't know. Maybe if I approach them in a nice way, they would listen to what I have to say rather than just olympically missing the point and applying half assed solutions to the problem, or maybe it's too late to change the minds of people who are so set in their ways that they only allow for small divergences. All I know is that I'm drained and tired of trying. Whatever they wanna do with their site, let 'em. If anything, I'll just go to the latest shitstorm to bring my POV because I like doing it for some reason I can't pinpoint.

Obā-san · 2012-02-03 18:52:49

JUAN, Y U SAY WHAT I WANNA SAY BUT ALL SMART-LIKE? TEACH ME YOUR COLOMBIAN WAY WITH WORDS.

Justice4243 · 2012-02-03 19:02:53

^_^;; Let's keep the individual targeting of TVTropes mods discussion to a minimum, please.

millercross · 2012-02-03 19:03:41

Get into discussions often and you're bound to learn how to express your thoughts in an understandable way most of the time.

millercross · 2012-02-03 19:08:26

let's keep the individual targeting of TVTropes mods discussion to a minimum, please.

I don't mean to disrepect these people or insult them, insofar as I don't mean to say these things because they're the people behind it. I'm just saying these things because they're flaws and there're people behind such flaws, that's all.

Irene · 2012-02-03 19:26:04

Being nice will get more respective responses than being mean. Likewise, if there's a particular part of what they do that you don't like, specifiy the parts.

Do not make some statement lumping them as bad. Be clear and respective and not insulting. I don't agree with every decision, of course. But that doesn't give us a right to be a dick about it.

millercross · 2012-02-03 20:09:33

The imperative here, though, is to learn to separate the point from the person who's saying it. Or in other words, accept that the assholes may have a point, to put in the most layman terms I can use. Whether they do or they don't, it's entirely unrelated to how much of an asshat they are.

I'm not saying that everyone should be as assholestastic as they can be in order to convey a point. All I'm saying is that if someone's right, they're right and regardless of how much of a dick they are, that won't stop them from being right.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-03 20:12:22

Ideally, yes.

But if your intent is to get people to listen to you, it does pay to be at least somewhat polite.

If your intent is not that, the point is moot.

Unknown · 2012-02-03 22:33:51

The user and all related content has been deleted.

millercross · 2012-02-03 23:52:38

Ideally, yes.
But if your intent is to get people to listen to you, it does pay to be at least somewhat polite.
If your intent is not that, the point is moot.

And that's how it works from the perspective of the guy who's trying to propose something. But when you're an authority taking care of a site and administrating it, you have to be fair, above all. If someone makes a fair point, regardless of how much of an asshat they're being, you can't just ignore them. Ban them? Maybe. Depends entirely on how much of an idiot they were being, but censoring what they said and pretty much turn them into an unperson not only is very impractical for various reasons that we have gone through before (Everybody will gossip about what's behind the veil/censored post, the thump won't before the reply in most cases, etc) but is also intellectually dishonest and it's basically the equivalent of putting your fingers on your ears and going "lalalala, can't hear ya"

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-03 23:55:20

Well that is true.

But, that's also evident to anyone who's not that person.

Convincing that person is, of course, the problem. Not one I am any longer interested in tackling, mind you, but it is the problem.

Beholder · 2012-02-04 12:38:24

I don't think that talking about particular mods behind their back is a good thing to do.

Anonus · 2012-02-04 15:59:52

It's alright to discuss their actions in a way that doesn't come off as airing grievances. Juan's post wasn't trying to, but it still appeared that way to some.

millercross · 2012-02-04 16:23:33

I just think it'd be dishonest to talk about the moderation in that place as a collective because there's a disconnect and there're definetly differences between each moderator, their flaws and how they contribute to the site, in a good or in a bad way.

PlutoniumFist · 2012-02-04 17:26:02

Viani · 2012-02-04 17:26:52

The D.R.L.E furries ruined the SwatCats trope page.

PlutoniumFist · 2012-02-04 17:29:37

D.R.L.E?

PlutoniumFist · 2012-02-04 17:31:46

...Wait this went in the wrong thread.

Viani · 2012-02-04 17:32:14

"Deviantart Realistic Limited Embodiment" or something. It's where they treat animated anthro heroes as role models to base their behaviors and beliefs on and enforce that "furry is a worldwide culture" thing.

PlutoniumFist · 2012-02-04 17:32:59

Oh, one of those. Sounds lame.

Tre · 2012-02-04 18:35:37

-eye roll-

Overzealous furries are most irritating.

Obā-san · 2012-02-04 18:39:44

Indeed. They're the reason I'd never go to a fur con.

Unknown · 2012-02-04 18:44:09

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Obā-san · 2012-02-04 18:47:18

I'm a furry and have no clue how anyone could find fursuits attractive.

millercross · 2012-02-04 18:53:16

well, this is a derail alright

Obā-san · 2012-02-04 18:56:38

Indeed.

Anonus · 2012-02-04 19:02:13

I find it amusing that a post that went in the wrong thread started it.

Justice4243 · 2012-02-04 19:26:05

You know, as long as no fur suits are involved, I have no problem treating the SWAT cats as role models.

PlutoniumFist · 2012-02-04 19:29:34

*hara-kiri*

Viani · 2012-02-04 19:32:31

SWAT Cats are fun characters, although I wouldn't use them as role models considering...they are cats, and cats have a habit of licking their balls.

Discussion of TV Tropes

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories