I'm sorry everyone, but Code Geass is the best High-Quality Anime Drama.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-25 21:36:35

The more recursions of the cycle occur, the dumber the result ultimately is. Getting angry about the popularity of Dexter because you don't like it is silly; getting angry about the anger that those people express rather than ignoring it is even sillier. Granted, we're just joking about it now, but look at the Tumblr thread. I don't want to go down that dark and dangerous road.

Odradek · 2013-09-25 21:37:05

hokay,

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-25 21:39:18

Cool.

Sorry to get weird about this. It probably makes me the silliest of all. I'm just wary is all.

Previous Calica · 2013-09-25 23:41:01

Honestly, I'm more interested in continuing the joke in a less vindictive way.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-25 23:48:27

I think that's fair, but how would one do so?

Previous Calica · 2013-09-26 00:37:13

Use more reasonable and balanced statements. I dunno.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 00:43:32

Hmmm.

*...*

Am I seriously the only person here that has seen The Tatami Galaxy?

glennmagusharvey · 2013-09-26 02:09:43

I thought it was spinor who rec'd it to me.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 03:04:18

I was not aware that he had seen it. I thought that I was basically the lone Masaaki Yuasa fanboy around these parts, with the possible exception of TNS, whose conversion I oversaw. And Pangur Bán loves Cat Soup, and that may be my favourite thing that he has done, maybe even my favourite film, so there is that.

Speaking of which: Everyone should watch Cat Soup.

Previous Calica · 2013-09-26 03:58:54

I haven't seen it. I wanna say I've heard it's good from people who aren't Sredni though. Maybe Solstace.

SF_Sorrow · 2013-09-26 04:31:33

I had seen Cat Soup before and I can confirm Sredni's claims of it being good

Viani · 2013-09-26 05:43:52

Neon Genesis Evangelion's ending was a major letdown, not a mind-screw.

I forgot to finish my Liveblog of it bccause i was Tnu'd , then I watched the entire thing, and felt horrendously disappointed.

It was getting amazingly good, then like a guy who comes too soon, the finale made me wish I never started.

Justice4243 · 2013-09-26 13:38:21

Sredni Vashtar said:
This is getting dangerously close to making a big deal about other people making a big deal out of something dumb, which is in and of itself making a big deal about something dumb.

Welcome to the Heap, enjoy your stay.

/is red flagged for fragrant douchbaggery

Viani said:

It was getting amazingly good, then like a guy who comes too soon, the finale made me wish I never started.

How many unconscious half German redheads where involved in this?

Viani · 2013-09-26 14:46:22

How many unconscious half German redheads where involved in this?

Just the best one, but even she couldn't carry the show by herself, no matter how badly she said she could. If Shinji is good at one thing, it's making an extremely aberrant ending hit as weak as the meaning of a picasso picture. Should have had Germasuka win the party.

Aside from that, Code Geass is amazing, but it could use more Strawberry Panic references.

Justice4243 · 2013-09-26 15:02:22

I thought occurs that with all the Pizza Hut references Lelouche might have settled on finally making that worlds largest Pizza thing happen to unite all the nations.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 16:12:33

Justice4243 said:

Sredni Vashtar said:
This is getting dangerously close to making a big deal about other people making a big deal out of something dumb, which is in and of itself making a big deal about something dumb.
Welcome to the Heap, enjoy your stay.

/is red flagged for fragrant douchbaggery

But isn't our whole telos to make big deals out of dumb things in a tongue-in-cheek, generally positive way? I mean, there is a big difference between ranting about the way Gs are constructed in certain fonts and flipping out about someone not liking something that you like. We're not Tumblr.

Actually, I think that last part says it all. Let's not be Tumblr.

</grumpy_mode>

OK, in keeping with the line of conversation here, what anime series would you guys generally hold up as your nominees, for, if not "best," then closest to your Platonic ideal of what such a series should be?

Salix Babylonika · 2013-09-26 16:48:45

Serial Experiments Lain is my favorite heady anime (and a strong contender for my favorite television show of all time, but that's another subject entirely).

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 16:55:11

Lain is an amazing, weird, hypnotic show. A bit opaque for some people, but I don't think that most of those are the kind of people that I want to talk about anime with. Mononoke has a similarly chilly vibe, but it comes from a pretty different place as far as symbolism and attitude is concerned. Both are very, very Japanese, but the approaches are new school and old school, and I appreciate that.

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 16:58:16

i found Serial Experiments Lain difficult, i have to admit

difficult to follow at times, and at times a bit uncomfortable

it's still one of the best shows i've watched, but i'd be hesitant to put it at number one for that reason

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 16:59:21

(also i didn't think we were flipping out or being tumblrish, whatever that might be, but that's prolly by-the-by)

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 17:05:35

^^ It is definitely difficult and uncomfortable. Setting aside how close to the vest the show keeps its proverbial cards, the scene in the club in the third episode legitimately shocked me, and I found the climax of the eighth utterly heartbreaking. But I think that it is worth it.

^ I already admitted that I was overreacting a little; I've just seen it happen before and I don't want to see it happen again...

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 17:09:33

ok, i'm sorry. i didn't mean to come off as naggy.

if i were making a top ten list Lain would be on it, as would FMA, Madoka Magica, Fairy Tail, Haruhi Suzumiya and Baccano. For each of those, there are reasons why i'd be hesitant to put it at number one

Madoka and Baccano are maybe the strongest contenders

Salix Babylonika · 2013-09-26 17:10:10

I like Lain at least partly because it's so vague.

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 17:11:12

wait, i didn't consider more gag based shows like Azumanga Daioh

i don't know if i've seen enough anime to make a decision

Salix Babylonika · 2013-09-26 17:13:28

I haven't seen Haruhi in a long time. A lot of people really don't like it but I found it very engaging when I last saw it.

I'd like them to adapt the later novels some day but I dunno how likely that is.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 17:17:52

Puella Magi Madoka Magica is indeed an extremely striking and well-written show. Baccano! and Fullmetal Alchemist are also exceptional.

Comedies are harder to judge for me, partly because I watch fewer of them. I suppose that The Tatami Galaxy and Welcome to the NHK count, but I'm not sure. In terms of construction, Ouran High School Host Club is just really brilliantly put together and very, very funny, but I dunno.

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 17:18:55

^^ i was worried the Endless Eight (which i honestly liked, tho i saw it on DVD long after it aired so i didn't have the painstaking wait and knew what to expect) killed any chances of that

the movie was really good, tho it doesn't really work independently of the TV show

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 17:21:12

What i saw of Ouran was certainly funny, but i found parts of it quite problematic, enough to put me off ranking it among my favourites

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 17:27:30

The problem with playing with the various tropes and clichés of shoujo comics and shows is that some of them have pretty warped or dubious implications. It is difficult to balance internal criticism and affectionate homage without tripping up on one of those down the line, and generally I can forgive the show for that, but I agree that it can be uncomfortable at points. I simply meant to say that it was very well-constructed as a comedy and a piece of animation.

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 17:29:28

oh, i don't mean to criticize you

for that matter there's plenty that's problematic about both Haruhi and Fairy Tail, but i guess i'm more accustomed to the genre conventions of shonen series so i'm capable of turning a blind eye there

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 17:46:00

No offence taken whatsoever.

Hm.

I have come to dislike how the word "problematic" is used in these contexts, but less when it is applied to ideas than when it is applied to works or, worst of all, people. As a word, it means "liable to cause or become a problem," not "containing ethical quandaries due to implied acceptance of hegemonic or prejudiced values." While hegemonic and prejudiced ideas and the acceptance of those ideas are potentially problematic in a very literal sense—in that they pose or cause problems for both the work and for the audience—the work itself is not "problematic," and the creator themselves is certainly not "problematic."

Justice4243 · 2013-09-26 17:49:34

Futakoi Alternative is my favorite anime.

Though, I think personal taste has way more to do with this than anything else.

I'd still say it's pretty good on almost all counts, however.

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 17:52:55

^^ well, a work of fiction is essentially an idea, isn't it? If that idea contains elements that appear to accept or endorse attitudes that are prejudiced or otherwise harmful, i'd say it's fair to call it problematic.

wait, no, scratch that, a work of fiction is a product that is interpreted by its consumers, not an idea in itself

i was paying attention in theory class, i swear

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 18:07:23

I still would not call it "problematic." To my mind, "problematic" is not a particularly useful word in the analysis of media not only because it lacks precision, but because it is far to easy to turn it into a thought-terminating cliché. It is not that an idea cannot cause problems, but that just saying that it causes problems does not actually specify what those problems are or offer a solution to them. The assumption of stereotypes is problematic, but so is erratic plotting, inconsistent characterisation and inconsistent tone. All contribute to the destruction of the suspension of disbelief, which is a problem, yet none are remotely the same.

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 18:14:44

i suppose it is a bit of a thought-stopper, you're right.

but in any case, i'm aware i fucked up there

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 18:16:46

I wasn't trying to say that you were wrong, and it was unfair of me to make that filibuster here. I am sorry. I simply did not know where else to say it, and it felt relevant here.

Tachyon · 2013-09-26 18:19:38

no, it's fine. i'm glad you pointed that out.

it's one of those words i overuse in any case, i should really use it less

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 18:24:01

It is easy to overuse it in that way because there are not a lot of words that fill that niche well, although I think that simply stating outright that something is unintentionally offensive or accepts dubious values is probably the best option.

Viani · 2013-09-26 18:37:37

A lot of people really don't like it but I found it very engaging when I last saw it.

I think it's more of the "Love the show, hate the fans" kind of thing since people use "Haruhi is God" as a way to ignite religious arguments and what not.

Good show though.

Viani · 2013-09-26 18:38:46

For Example:

The suffering of the jews during the Holocaust was never addressed because God is only interested in aliens, espers and time-travelers, and not tortured jews.

Justice4243 · 2013-09-26 18:39:26

I probably found that funnier than I should have...

Viani · 2013-09-26 18:41:01

The first time I heard it I pissed myself laughing.

The first time my jewish friend heard that she almost punched a hole in her screen.

Hexartes · 2013-09-26 19:34:57

Sredni Vashtar said:
I was not aware that he had seen it. I thought that I was basically the lone Masaaki Yuasa fanboy around these parts, with the possible exception of TNS, whose conversion I oversaw. And Pangur Bán loves Cat Soup, and that may be my favourite thing that he has done, maybe even my favourite film, so there is that.

Speaking of which: Everyone should watch Cat Soup.

I watched it; I think you were there when I did, actually.

It made me sad, although watching it when I was tired probably didn't help. It certainly made it harder to understand.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 19:45:28

Yes, you were.

Cat Soup is a very sad film, albeit one where the nature of the tragedy is up to interpretation.

Justice4243 · 2013-09-26 19:46:33

And then there's the series which is just strange and goofy.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 19:50:18

I don't care for the shorts. They are a little closer to the original comics in content, but they are missing the eerie vibe, drugged-out tone and psychological complexity. Plus, the animation is lacklustre, particularly when set against the lushness and elegance of Satou and Yuasa's portrayal.

Sredni Vashtar · 2013-09-26 19:57:09

Also, while Nekojiru's comics are pretty nihilistic, the place that this comes from is far better represented by the last minutes of the film. It is the outlook of a severely depressed person, which colours the narrative in a very particular way. It is not gross-out humour for its own sake, or even social commentary wrapped in absurd violence, but a look through a very specially warped and tinted glass.

Odradek · 2015-03-01 14:08:59

The Golden Age of Anime ended when people could think that shows like Parasyte or Log Horizon were part of it.

Bold exaggeration: the only show on the air with the ambition of a true Golden Age anime is Death Parade.

glennmagusharvey · 2015-03-01 16:16:13

The "Golden Age" of anything should not be declared until at least half a century after said anything has happened and finished happening.

Hexartes · 2015-03-01 16:52:15

There is no way in hell I made that post a year and a half ago.

I'm with Imi on that whole fear of time thing...

I'm sorry everyone, but Code Geass is the best High-Quality Anime Drama.

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