the general reception to The Beginner's Guide (the new game from The Stanley Parable guy, which I'm sure he's sick of being referred to as by now) is that it's not as good as the latter.
I haven't played it, and indeed, I won't, but the reasons being given kind of bother me? It's apparently not as "clever". What does that mean?
I am tempted to read in narratives here about a guy making something deeply meta and sarcastic and occasionally cruel gets praised for it and then gets slammed when he tries to make something genuine and honest, but, well, I'm not sure that that's the case.
I dunno why this is such a common thing to come up, at least if we're talking, like, WOW-style MMOs. Environmental exploration, quests, and social stuff beyond tournaments and such has never been Pokemon's strong suit and I'm not sure how it would adapt to an MMO.
Say we focus in on any one of those things I mentioned, though, and added that to the Pokemon formula, I think you could get Good Stuff out of that. Like, exploration + Pokemon = Pokemon open world game. Neat! Social stuff + Pokemon = Pokemon GO, which looks like it could be really good.
Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
I also honestly do not want to play a Pokemon MMO.
The best thing about Pokemon is honestly the low-involvement and the ability to do things at your own speed. An augmented reality where you just grab a few Pokemon during your commute seems like the next logical step.
i think Pokémon and exploration go together very well, in that there could stand to be a lot more exploration in the games, and when it is diminished (as in Colosseum) its absence is extremely conspicuous
so basically seconding the neatness of Pokémon open world game idea
+ social stuff could be even better if implemented right
kinda apprehensive about GO tho cuz iirc Game Freak aren't actually involved?
I remember seeing this way back in the day and not knowing how to feel about it. For me, alongside what Mach said, part of the draw is that I don't have to interact with anyone whatsoever. Very appreciated. Not that that's mutually exclusive with MMO(RPG) stuff - used to play them also back in the day - since I could just do what I did for some time, which is turning off every chat thing and putting on music, but I don't know. Just strikes me, personally, as inherently off.
i think Pokémon and exploration go together very well, in that there could stand to be a lot more exploration in the games, and when it is diminished (as in Colosseum) its absence is extremely conspicuous
so basically seconding the neatness of Pokémon open world game idea
+ social stuff could be even better if implemented right
kinda apprehensive about GO tho cuz iirc Game Freak aren't actually involved?
I appreciated the focus of Colosseum. It's essentially a canon challenge run.
Honestly I'd like to see a Pokémon game be more conducive to that kind of thing. Having involved stories makes for nice marketing (get to have extra news coverage when you unveil the new villain team, new villain leader, their goals, etc.) and less cynically there are probably other benefits (given the usual quality of Pokémon stories though I'm at a loss) but I think it takes away from a lot of the stuff that makes Pokémon games fun in the long term, like competitive play and Nuzlocke runs and stuff.
i think Pokémon and exploration go together very well, in that there could stand to be a lot more exploration in the games, and when it is diminished (as in Colosseum) its absence is extremely conspicuous
so basically seconding the neatness of Pokémon open world game idea
+ social stuff could be even better if implemented right
kinda apprehensive about GO tho cuz iirc Game Freak aren't actually involved?
I appreciated the focus of Colosseum. It's essentially a canon challenge run.
Honestly I'd like to see a Pokémon game be more conducive to that kind of thing. Having involved stories makes for nice marketing (get to have extra news coverage when you unveil the new villain team, new villain leader, their goals, etc.) and less cynically there are probably other benefits (given the usual quality of Pokémon stories though I'm at a loss) but I think it takes away from a lot of the stuff that makes Pokémon games fun in the long term, like competitive play and Nuzlocke runs and stuff.
see I think all of this just proves my point, because I find all of that horrifically boring.
I feel like someone with enough money and enterprise could probably buy the copyright for those on the cheap and launch a Kickstarter to revive the series.
i think Pokémon and exploration go together very well, in that there could stand to be a lot more exploration in the games, and when it is diminished (as in Colosseum) its absence is extremely conspicuous
so basically seconding the neatness of Pokémon open world game idea
+ social stuff could be even better if implemented right
kinda apprehensive about GO tho cuz iirc Game Freak aren't actually involved?
I appreciated the focus of Colosseum. It's essentially a canon challenge run.
Honestly I'd like to see a Pokémon game be more conducive to that kind of thing. Having involved stories makes for nice marketing (get to have extra news coverage when you unveil the new villain team, new villain leader, their goals, etc.) and less cynically there are probably other benefits (given the usual quality of Pokémon stories though I'm at a loss) but I think it takes away from a lot of the stuff that makes Pokémon games fun in the long term, like competitive play and Nuzlocke runs and stuff.
i'm kinda the same as Jane on this, albeit much less vehemently
Colosseum was interesting to me, but what was most interesting about it was that we got to explore the Pokémon world from a different perspective - from the criminal/underworld kinda POV rather than the some-kid-with-a-hat-who-takes-down-entire-gangs POV we usually get
same basic elements, but different kind of story, you know?
Pokémon could fit well in a lot of genres because its basic gameplay is really. fucking. good. but it's sorta stuck in quite possibly the least interesting possible incarnation of itself. It's bizarre.
I am fairly confident that consoles are not going anywhere any time soon.
Nor PC gaming.
If I had a nickel for every time someone doomsayed about the death of PC gaming because cheap computers / mobile phones / consoles / bad games / the Call of Duty series / Gabe Newell was going to personally put a stake in its heart, I'd be a rich woman.
they weren't predicting the death of PC gaming as such
or even really the death of consoles, though iirc they said after maybe 2 gens consoles are going to probably drop outside the mainstream or else change significantly
hang on, i'll find the video, that'd be better than my half-remembered, garbled commentary on it
one thing that always bothered me when i was younger was, whenever friends came around and wanted to play video games, they almost always wanted to play Pokémon Stadium (or Stadium 2)
and i never got why, because to me it was the least interesting multiplayer game we owned, and lacked everything that made Pokémon interesting
you're just sat there in a menu screen, choosing options until one of you wins
none of the exploration and discovery that made the handheld games fun to me, nor any of the frantic multiplayer action of Mario Kart or Smash
they're not even 'your' Pokémon, unless you transfer your party from one of the handheld games, in which case you win pretty much by default providing they're leveled enough
which takes away the other aspect that made it fun, having a team of Pokémon that you chose and customized yourself
Battling in the Pokémon universe is something given proper context and any unfortunate implications are things you'd have to be REEEEALLY reaching for. Everyone jokes about the cockfighting parallels but with even the slightest examination of the series those fall apart.
Stuff like squirreling away rares, "collecting" Pokemon, shiny breeding, and Pokémon rental, though? Yeah, those are Problematic.
like i'm not even really sure how some of those things are supposed to be Problematic
They aren't properly contextualized the way battling is.
Within the context of the series battling is essentially a ritual, and a synthesis of performance, sport, self expression, expression of trust, and when necessary a form of self defense. Use of Pokémon in a strictly offensive manner is thoroughly condemned by the literal text and the gameplay is abstract enough to where the player can assume that even if they are fighting for the sake of fighting, their player character isn't.
The notion of collecting Pokémon and never interacting with them is obviously, ah, odd, and the games never address this and yet still encourage it through the focus on, as it were, catching them all. Similar stuff with selective breeding and trading.
It's a major focus of the game and it's never addressed in dialogue. It's bizarre. And all the games would have to do is, like, say that captured Pokémon return to their natural habitat when placed in the PC but can be summoned by the player. Or something. Otherwise it just feels kind of disconcerting.
If I have a problem with the Pokemon series today, it is Game Freak's "two steps forward, one step back" approach to the games. Back in the day that took the form of flipflopping between animated and non-animated sprites. Today I think you mostly see it in how stuff like gym leader rematches are available in the deluxe third version of a generation and then nonexistent or much more restricted in the first games of the next generation for seemingly no reason.
I feel like taking away features can be even more frustrating when it means having a very limited postgame in the first games of a generation because the cool postgame stuff added in the last game was taken out and will not be replaced until the third version gets released.
My personal pet peeve was the decision to go from the Pokemon World Tournament's system of unlocking stuff through cumulative wins back to the streak system in the Battle Maison. I just do not find having a winning streak ended and then having to go back and start over from square one very fun. It sort of makes me feel like I am just wasting my time and makes it much harder to have success with your favorite Pokemon, I think.
i think Pokémon and exploration go together very well, in that there could stand to be a lot more exploration in the games, and when it is diminished (as in Colosseum) its absence is extremely conspicuous
so basically seconding the neatness of Pokémon open world game idea
+ social stuff could be even better if implemented right
kinda apprehensive about GO tho cuz iirc Game Freak aren't actually involved?
I appreciated the focus of Colosseum. It's essentially a canon challenge run.
Honestly I'd like to see a Pokémon game be more conducive to that kind of thing. Having involved stories makes for nice marketing (get to have extra news coverage when you unveil the new villain team, new villain leader, their goals, etc.) and less cynically there are probably other benefits (given the usual quality of Pokémon stories though I'm at a loss) but I think it takes away from a lot of the stuff that makes Pokémon games fun in the long term, like competitive play and Nuzlocke runs and stuff.
I liked Colosseum and XD, partly for the reasons that you mentioned. Mostly, I just would like Game Freak to take more risks with stuff. Over time I am starting to appreciate the Generation V games more and more because they did just that with the story. It was not incredibly groundbreaking, sure, but it seems to me like even small departures like that can help spice up the Pokemon series and make it much less formulaic.
Thank yoooooou that two steps forward, one step back thing is something I've totally noticed I'm glad you put it into words.
No problem, as you could probably tell from that last post, it is something that has been bugging me for a while too.
Given that trainer customization did not come back for ORAS, I am starting to worry a bit that Game Freak might consider it a Kalos exclusive feature because Kalos is the land of fashion or something (that possibility would not have crossed my mind if I had not heard it on Bulbagarden a while back). I really hope not, because it is something that many Pokemon fans have been clamoring for and that I personally enjoy a lot.
Comments
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Say we focus in on any one of those things I mentioned, though, and added that to the Pokemon formula, I think you could get Good Stuff out of that. Like, exploration + Pokemon = Pokemon open world game. Neat! Social stuff + Pokemon = Pokemon GO, which looks like it could be really good.
I'm tired, apologies for incoherence.
so basically seconding the neatness of Pokémon open world game idea
+ social stuff could be even better if implemented right
kinda apprehensive about GO tho cuz iirc Game Freak aren't actually involved?
like what i want out of it is evidently a lot different from what Mach wants out of it, as a case in point
Honestly I'd like to see a Pokémon game be more conducive to that kind of thing. Having involved stories makes for nice marketing (get to have extra news coverage when you unveil the new villain team, new villain leader, their goals, etc.) and less cynically there are probably other benefits (given the usual quality of Pokémon stories though I'm at a loss) but I think it takes away from a lot of the stuff that makes Pokémon games fun in the long term, like competitive play and Nuzlocke runs and stuff.
The world (or at least me, dammit) needs another thing like that, but done well. I hope Pokémon Go fills that void.
Colosseum was interesting to me, but what was most interesting about it was that we got to explore the Pokémon world from a different perspective - from the criminal/underworld kinda POV rather than the some-kid-with-a-hat-who-takes-down-entire-gangs POV we usually get
same basic elements, but different kind of story, you know?
it bugged me, although i know they're quite correct
games being mainly played on an ubiquitous portable device that everyone is already using, that has obvious appeal
except that i'm not using it, and in no hurry to replace my old flip phone which is after all a perfectly good phone
Pokémon could fit well in a lot of genres because its basic gameplay is really. fucking. good. but it's sorta stuck in quite possibly the least interesting possible incarnation of itself. It's bizarre.
or even really the death of consoles, though iirc they said after maybe 2 gens consoles are going to probably drop outside the mainstream or else change significantly
hang on, i'll find the video, that'd be better than my half-remembered, garbled commentary on it
but here it is, if anyone's interested
one thing that always bothered me when i was younger was, whenever friends came around and wanted to play video games, they almost always wanted to play Pokémon Stadium (or Stadium 2)
and i never got why, because to me it was the least interesting multiplayer game we owned, and lacked everything that made Pokémon interesting
you're just sat there in a menu screen, choosing options until one of you wins
none of the exploration and discovery that made the handheld games fun to me, nor any of the frantic multiplayer action of Mario Kart or Smash
which takes away the other aspect that made it fun, having a team of Pokémon that you chose and customized yourself
Battling in the Pokémon universe is something given proper context and any unfortunate implications are things you'd have to be REEEEALLY reaching for. Everyone jokes about the cockfighting parallels but with even the slightest examination of the series those fall apart.
Stuff like squirreling away rares, "collecting" Pokemon, shiny breeding, and Pokémon rental, though? Yeah, those are Problematic.
Within the context of the series battling is essentially a ritual, and a synthesis of performance, sport, self expression, expression of trust, and when necessary a form of self defense. Use of Pokémon in a strictly offensive manner is thoroughly condemned by the literal text and the gameplay is abstract enough to where the player can assume that even if they are fighting for the sake of fighting, their player character isn't.
The notion of collecting Pokémon and never interacting with them is obviously, ah, odd, and the games never address this and yet still encourage it through the focus on, as it were, catching them all. Similar stuff with selective breeding and trading.
it's so abstracted an experience that it doesn't feel that way, though
i found it kind of interesting how Twitch mourned released Pokémon as though they had died, even though this is explicitly contradicted by the text
I feel like taking away features can be even more frustrating when it means having a very limited postgame in the first games of a generation because the cool postgame stuff added in the last game was taken out and will not be replaced until the third version gets released.
My personal pet peeve was the decision to go from the Pokemon World Tournament's system of unlocking stuff through cumulative wins back to the streak system in the Battle Maison. I just do not find having a winning streak ended and then having to go back and start over from square one very fun. It sort of makes me feel like I am just wasting my time and makes it much harder to have success with your favorite Pokemon, I think. I liked Colosseum and XD, partly for the reasons that you mentioned. Mostly, I just would like Game Freak to take more risks with stuff. Over time I am starting to appreciate the Generation V games more and more because they did just that with the story. It was not incredibly groundbreaking, sure, but it seems to me like even small departures like that can help spice up the Pokemon series and make it much less formulaic.
Given that trainer customization did not come back for ORAS, I am starting to worry a bit that Game Freak might consider it a Kalos exclusive feature because Kalos is the land of fashion or something (that possibility would not have crossed my mind if I had not heard it on Bulbagarden a while back). I really hope not, because it is something that many Pokemon fans have been clamoring for and that I personally enjoy a lot.