General Religion, Mythology, and occult talk

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 03:44:39

I noticed this tends to come up a bit in the general threads, so I figured a place to collect the conversations wouldn't hurt.

Think I'll start things off with link to a crazy Hindu god dance contest then a wall-o-text response to some stuff in the main thread.

“Why the hell didn't I learn this stuff in my cru-church?”

It is a shame that Protestant church really only concentrates on what’s in the Bible and nothing else.

Catholicism is a little more interesting in that it has Saints and Angels. Also demons get more of a nod.

“"Could be either, but if it was the
atheists it is the devil's deception to try to pull you into something
that will put you in real bondage. I realize that many times Christians
don't come thru when you need them the most but there are times when
they do if they are sure the Lord is leading them."

Eh, Christians can be supportive and atheists can be dicks. I’ve seen a few atheists whose response would have boiled down to “she’s better off dead, life is pain anyhow”. I actually talked this subject with my Jehovah Whiteness buddy, and we agree the answers of “The Lord works in mysterious ways” or “God needed another angel” are pretty much bullshit.

Still, the answer here is definitely of the biased “God is in all things except for when it’s the devil” and I’d imagine whomever typed it up attends one of the heavily Calvinist influenced Churches.

“Also... demons are like pokemon. Fight them,, capture them, and give
them lots of love, and they will be loyal companions in your journey.“

Considering it’s something of standard practice to force a demon to swear that it won’t seek vengeance on you once you release it from your service. I kinda doubt this.

I’ve seen this belief in modern Satanism, though. Which tends to go hand in hand with the belief that the Bible and much the writing on demons is anti-demon propaganda.

“God cannot heal amputees painlessly because it would be too painful, apparently.”

Hasn’t always stopped him.

I find questions like this are answered better by addressing the Problem of evil, since it’s really what the question is about anyhow.

“The main reason that so many atheists are criminals is that they reject
the presence of a higher power that is a source of absolute morality.
They do not believe that there will be any final consequences for their
actions. After all, when they die, they die. End of story. So why not
shoplift, and use drugs, and go on a killing spree, and read Harry Potter books,
and rape as many people (of arbitrary gender and age) as possible?
After all, in the end, it isn't going to matter, is it? This sick
worldview is one of the biggest problems with society today.”

Arson Murder And Jaywalking, much?

Also, religious prison demographics skew about the same as they do in non-prison. A few of the religions are slightly higher than they are outside prison, but those are the religions that tend to have many converts INSIDE prison

Now here's a bunch of awesome Journey to the West pictures:

Tachyon · 2012-01-26 04:06:38

>Problem of evil

*suffers flashbacks to OTC and IJBM, falls to floor shaking*

...Yeah, OK, I was in no small part responsible for those threads and I know it.

Is general legends/folklore talk cool here too?

Viani · 2012-01-26 04:07:51

I know that feel Fourier. It was my fault too.

Why is Moloch a demon in Christian Mythology but not in it's origin?

He's a baby-eating devil in one, but a guardian of the unfortunate in another.

Manly McMacho · 2012-01-26 04:11:53

Jehovah Whiteness

lol

^Christianity is pretty good at recycling ideas.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 04:12:12

A great deal of the demons in the Bible where actually old local gods of the various tribes that where around the Jews.

Usually a great deal of idolatry and sometimes possibly human sacrifice was involved, so they get associated with evil.

Tachyon · 2012-01-26 04:15:21

I think the human sacrifice thing has been contested quite a lot, on the basis that it isn't recorded by their contemporaries.

I find it kind of strange that "Ba'al" only means "Lord", and that at least one deity by that title was functionally identical to some representations of the Judeo-Christian God.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 04:25:41

It's certainly contested a lot, but unfortunately the Bible is often the best or even ONLY source of information on some of these tribes.

Human sacrifice certainly is a thing though, and certainly went on for quite some time in many places.

Fun fact:Apparently, one of the reasons Thor became more popular than his pops, is Thor didn't require any human sacrifices.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-26 05:15:44

Weren't sacrifices for people who committed horrific crimes?

Idler · 2012-01-26 05:50:22

In Aztec society I believe it was an honour to be sacrificed. I suppose if you're going to kill people, you can at least do so in a "hey, we're killing you because you're awesome! :D" way.

Tachyon · 2012-01-26 05:55:45

Certainly, that was true of the Incas.

Manly McMacho · 2012-01-26 06:10:06

"You want to do what? Hell no, I don't want to die!

...Wait, you really think that? Well, when you put it that way, sure you can cut me open and pull my guts out! I'd be honored!"

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 13:44:55

Sacrifices to Odin certainly don't fit under "criminals".

Several kings where sacrificed, two because their where long lasting famines, another because he and his crew where out at sea and the weather sucked so they drew lots to see who would get hanged for Odin.

The king lost.

There where also apparently a summer festival that involved a sacrifice.

Also one king would sacrifice his own sons to extend his life (this did NOT stop the aging process, however).

Despite his willingness to sacrifice 9 out of 10 sons, he was apparently rather peaceful and didn't pursue war.

Idler · 2012-01-26 13:52:15

Okay Justice, tell me about some interesting mythology. Whatever you want.

Viani · 2012-01-26 13:54:34

Reminds of this time somebody actually tried to derail something I was talking about into a religious absence of evidence argument when I was talking about Native myths concerning bigfoot in Montana.

But yeah the Bigfoot myths are here too. Hairy giants that hide in forests and eat people.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 14:29:18

The Japanese goddess of food Uki Mochi would produce food be excreting it from her body.

...It's probably worse than you're imagining...so I'll go into greater detail.

She prepared a feast for the Japanese Moon God (brother to their Sun God, Amaterasu) Tsukuyomi. She prepared everything fresh, and in front hot of him.

Fish fresh from her spit, wild game fresh from her anus, rice fresh from the back of her throat. Tsukuyomi reacted to all this in a calm and rational manner by stabbing Uki Mochi....as calmly and rationally as he could be in this situation. Various parts of Uki Mochi's body turned into rice, beans, and finally silkworms from her eyebrows.

Amaterasu was pissed, and Tsukuyomi now spends all his time following her around in the sky, attempting to apologize .

How can you say you love a girl if you can't even eat her pooped deer?

Idler · 2012-01-26 14:32:03

Ewwww.

Viani · 2012-01-26 14:38:21

She slaved over a hot anus to make this food for him, and he killed her. What a bastard.

Idler · 2012-01-26 14:42:42

What are your favourite weird mythological monsters Uncle Justice?

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 14:58:03

Bonnacon is the weirdest and favouritist that easily comes to mind.

"The Bonnacon (also called the Bonacon or the Bonasus) is a mythical animal from Asia. It has curled horns and emits burning dung. The legend may be based on a type of bison in reality. A supposed representation of it appears on the Coat of Arms belonging to the Hollingshead Family, possibly alluding to a legendary confrontation between one of their ancestors and this beast.
The animal was described by Pliny in his Naturalis Historia: "There are reports of a wild animal in Paionia called the bonasus, which has the mane of a horse, but in all other respects resembles a bull; its horns are curved back in such a manner as to be of no use for fighting, and it is said that because of this it saves itself by running away, meanwhile emitting a trail of dung that sometimes covers a distance of as much as three furlongs [604 m], contact with which scorches pursuers like a sort of fire."

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 14:58:15

The Gulon, also wins points for it's incredible weirdness.

"The Gulon is a Scandinavian legend, also known as a "Jerff" in Sweden and "Vielfraß" in Germany. It is a hodgepodge of various creatures, usually described as being the size and shape of a dog, with some cat like features such as the head, ears, and claws. It also supposedly has a thick coat of shaggy brown fur and a tail resembling that of a fox.
The Gulon is notorious as a symbol of gluttony because of the strange eating habits it is supposed to have. It will make a kill and then gorge itself until it is swollen and unable to eat more, at which point it will find two trees and squeeze itself in between them, pushing the meat through its own body before returning to the kill and repeating the process."

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 15:02:46

Hoop Snakes are just crazy-cool.

"According to folklore, the distinguishing feature of a hoop snake is that it can grasp its tail in its jaws and roll after its prey like a wheel,^[2]^[1] thus looking somewhat like the ouroboros of Greek mythology, or Tsuchinoko (a legendary fat snake that can roll like a wheel) in Japan. In one version of the myth, the snake straightens out at the last second, skewering its victim with its venomous tail. The only escape is to hide behind a tree, which receives the deadly blow instead and promptly dies from the poison.^[3]"

Idler · 2012-01-26 15:24:37

I like that one Aztec monster that makes a sound like an axe chopping wood and that you can't escape from unless you reach into its stomach and remove its heart.

Rottweiler · 2012-01-26 17:56:05

I'd say "turning a general religion thread into a discussion of legendary beasts is sooo nerdy", but it never worked that way on TVTropes.

I like the hydra.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-26 17:58:38

Sacrifices to Odin certainly don't fit under "criminals".

Several kings where sacrificed, two because their where long lasting famines, another because he and his crew where out at sea and the weather sucked so they drew lots to see who would get hanged for Odin.

Teh first two sound like criminals to me

There where also apparently a summer festival that involved a sacrifice.

Also one king would sacrifice his own sons to extend his life (this did NOT stop the aging process, however).

Despite his willingness to sacrifice 9 out of 10 sons, he was apparently rather peaceful and didn't pursue war.

That sounds retarded

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 18:54:29

"Teh first two sound like criminals to me"

Poe's Law? The King's crimes where basically failing to nature...

"That sounds retarded"

Yeah, I got nothing, this would have made some degree of sense if it came with youth with that extended life (still pretty evil, though) but they guy was VERY decrepit by the last two sons.

Idler · 2012-01-26 18:57:18

Some people are just really, really afraid of death.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 19:03:04

Found a little bit more on the Aztec monster, or Night Axe.

"It was well into the night when the night axe rang out for a great distance. Much did it frighten people. This night axe was Tezcatlipoca (Trickster god) making sport and fun of people.
They said that he who looked upon it, one who was bold and wise, and not given to fright, of strong spirit, would call to it as a person. Then he hurled himself at it; he seized it and hung on to it. Or he followed at its back and forced himself on it so he could catch it and see what manner of omen his was.
And when he saw it, he beheld it like a man without a head, with a neck severed at the nape, and with a chest and belly broken open. Thus they said that which was heard was his chest when the halves met like a mouth opening and closing making a sucking sound.
And of this apparition he to whom it appeared, whether a priest or bold one, or reckless warrior, when he had succeeded in reaching and seeing it, then saw his heart. He seized it, clutched it, and took it tightly in his fist and tore it out. So he demanded what it would give, grant, or award him. Perhaps he demanded riches, captives, valor, poverty, or the hoe or tumpline. So it was said that all that was awarded him became his gift.
And if it spoke to him, it said, "O our friend, O humming bird, O warrior. What do you say to me? What will you have of me? Unhand me, and I will give you what you wish." At once did it address him, calling him by name.
And the vassal to whom it appeared said, "I shall not let thee go, for I have taken thee."
Then it said to him, "Behold one thorn. I give it to you. Leave me alone."
The brave-hearted one didn't like this. He would only leave it if it gave him three or four thorns. Thus he showed and made evident that he went skillfully to war, not going forth in vain. As many captives as he would take as it showed and gave him thorns. Thus he then received as a reward all earthly happiness and contentment: flowers, tobacco, capes, lip pendants, head bands.
Also it was the common opinion, that whoever could not make it talk, immediately tore and ripped out its heart. He who had cut out its heart ran away. He buried it somewhere, wrapped it up thoroughly and tightly. Later, when it had dawned, he looked at it, and then it showed him if his fortune were good. When he saw a soft, white feather, or thorns, then it appeared that his lot would be good. But if he saw a piece of charcoal or a rag, it would not be good. Thus his reward had become poverty or misery.
Whosoever was not of strong spirit, the coward could not seize the specter. He was terrified. He could not pursue it. His body was flattened on the ground, and he could walk no more. So he knew that the night axe only made fun of him. Perchance sickness or death, or misery, slavery, and sin the specter gave him when it came upon him."

Second pic on the left-hand side.

Fun stuff.

Got another great Aztech monster I found out about coming up...

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 19:13:21

Tzitzimitl

"In Aztec mythology, a Tzitzimitl (plural Tzitzimimeh) is a deity associated with stars. They were depicted as skeletal female figures wearing skirts often with skull and crossbone designs. In Postconquest descriptions they are often described as "demons" or "devils" - but this does not necessarily reflect their function in the prehispanic belief system of the Aztecs.

The Tzitzimimeh were female deities, and as such related to fertility, they were associated with the Cihuateteo and other female deities such as Tlaltecuhtli, Coatlicue, Citlalicue and Cihuacoatl and they were worshipped by midwives and parturient women. The leader of the tzitzimimeh was the Goddess Itzpapalotl who was the ruler of Tamoanchan - the paradise where the Tzitzimimeh resided.
The Tzitzimimeh were also associated with the stars and especially the stars that can be seen around the sun during a solar eclipse. This was interpreted as the Tzitzimimeh attacking the sun, this caused the belief that during a solar eclipse, the tzitzimime would descend to the earth and devour human beings. The Tzitzimimeh were also feared during other ominous periods of the Aztec world, such as during the five unlucky days called Nemontemi which marked an unstable period of the year count, and during the New Fire ceremony marking the beginning of a new calendar round - both were periods associated with the fear of change.
The Tzitzimimeh had a double role in Aztec religion: they were protectresses of the feminine and progenitresses of mankind. They were also powerful and dangerous, especially in periods of cosmic instability.^"
^{There's apparently some contention about the actual gender of this thing. Apparently, it dresses like a woman, but snake penis their supposedly represent masculine virility or something... Though not all pictures of it include the snakes. And some call it a "skirt".}

Rottweiler · 2012-01-26 20:14:59

"Got another great Aztech"

I work for Aztechnology. </Pumaman>

Obā-san · 2012-01-26 20:23:45

I didn't think the Aztecs were big on technology after the robots kept killing their mummies.

ProfessorGator · 2012-01-26 20:44:07

I found out about the makara recently, and I really like the concept of it. My favorites are the ones that are part-crocodile, like this one:

Idler · 2012-01-26 21:10:04

The most embarrassingly-named cryptid ever.

PlutoniumFist · 2012-01-26 21:12:28

Goatmen (I like that there's enough sightings that we can accept there are more than one) have always gotten to me. Like, some of them roam around with axes.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-26 21:32:33

There is certainly more than one mythological creature that is part goat, part man.

PlutoniumFist · 2012-01-26 21:35:10

Oh jeez not that again.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-27 02:12:42

Suddenly, D&D Satyr!

Also, doing a Google image search for "Satyr" nets you many pictures of naked people, often having sex.

I'm not terribly surprised buy this. Satyr (and Nymphs) are the magical sluts of ancient Greece.

Viani · 2012-01-27 02:15:01

I'm not sure why, but for some reason I don't know what a Nymph is supposed to be. Are they just magical women or something or are they a hybrid or elemental or something?

Idler · 2012-01-27 02:21:47

magical sluts

The best kind of sluts.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-27 02:39:21

^^ They're nature spirits, usually connected to a place or land-form.

Sounds kinda similar to a minor Kami, or many Chinese deities.

Viani · 2012-01-27 02:44:28

Okay, that makes more sense now.

Next....Charybdis.

Is it supposed to be just the force of nature personification of a whirlpool with human attributes applied to it similarly to how Pirates speak of the Sea as a lady....or was it an actual monster?

Ace Rimmer · 2012-01-27 02:47:50

Poe's Law? The King's crimes where basically failing to nature...

The Kings were bad at their job by failing to look for a new food source

Viani · 2012-01-27 02:51:17

Is there a compendium devoted solely to the research and information sharing of mythical beings?

wikipedia is nice but it doesn't specialize in it.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-27 02:57:49

"The Kings were bad at their job by failing to look for a new food source"

This could easily involve going to war with another nation. Feeding a nation back then would certainly be crazy hard if the weather is not cooperating.

"Is there a compendium devoted solely to the research and information sharing of mythical beings?"

Occultopedia

Sacred Texts will give you free access to many of the ancient books these things come out of.

The Element Encyclopedia of Magical Creatures is a really good starting book to have on hand. It's where I first learned of the Bonnacon.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-27 13:03:27

Finally found some info the makes Asmodeus a credible contender for the sin of lust.

"In the Testament of Solomon, Asmodeus also plays a significant role. Here, the demon is called up by King Solomon, who demands to know its names and functions. This version of Asmodeus claims to have been in charge of the destruction of fidelity, either by separating man and wife through calamities or by causing husbands to be led astray."

The Dictionary of Demons: Names of the Damned.

Viani · 2012-01-27 13:48:01

YES! YES!

I shall join this community.

PlutoniumFist · 2012-01-27 13:55:35

Are there any demons of affliction/plague?

Justice4243 · 2012-01-27 14:19:30

Merihem:

"In Francis Barrett's 1801 publication The Magus, Merihem is listed as one of eight demonic princes who holds sway over a variety of evil concepts and classes of beings. As a demonic prince ranked at the top of the infernal hierarchy, Merihem oversees pestilence and the spirits that cause pestilence."

The Dictionary of Demons: Names of the Damned.

Rottweiler · 2012-01-27 14:37:11

Eight demonic princesses? Awww.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-27 14:39:59

I'm had to type about half of that while holding baby that woke me up three hours early.

Also, shut up.

Viani · 2012-01-27 14:44:40

How do you push shift buttons with one hand?

Justice4243 · 2012-01-27 14:49:08

I use my free hand to conjure an imp and have him type for me.

I use either my pinky or thumb on whichever hand is free.

This usually gives me enough range to hit the key I want.

I'm often typing on a notebook, so the keyboards are a little smaller.

General Religion, Mythology, and occult talk

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