So, I think I accidentally developed a kind of Grand Theory Of Noise, if anyone cares. It's all very Freudian and is probably complete nonsense, but I like it because it actually makes a surprising amount of sense for something I came up with while walking around talking to myself.
I would be interested in hearing more about this Grand Theory of Noise, if you feel like elaborating on it at this time.
Maybe I'm projecting here, but I think of noise as having a dual functional dynamic: The identification of the listener with the music/performer and the willing objectification of the listener by the music/performer.
The first is a control dynamic: By identifying oneself with the source of a violent, overwhelming sound, one obtains a vicarious sensation of power. This is often reinforced by the lyrics of certain types of vocal noise, particularly power electronics, which often addresses a "you" in an intensely, maniacally abusive way.
Yet therein lies the second factor: Noise is often, by its very nature, about being dominated. It is a masochistic art, for the listener and often for the performer. The shear volume, violence and alienation of the sound turns the listener into a conduit, a living buffer, an object—a notion that is, again, often reinforced by the "you and I" dynamic.
But even then, it is not so much about suffering as it is about the elimination of the ego. By being overwhelmed and turned into a sounding board for such aggressive external forces, one escapes oneself into a kind of ecstasy, not degraded but removed from one's physicality. The body is used to free the mind.
One interesting corollary to this would be how Michael Gira has talked about the goal of early Swans being to destroy the body. In sympathy with this, you might notice that a lot of early Swans lyrics are built on a kind of inverted or subverted variation on that "you and I" dynamic, often creating a "you without I" dynamic wherein there is no greater force to identify with; a dynamic in which both parties delineated in the lyrics are in or out of control to some degree; or a highly submissive dynamic in which Gira, our point of identification, is just as crushed by the music and the reality of the song-world as the listener is. All of these serve to nullify points of conventional power fantasy, thus either creating a sympathetic identification or nullifying the listener's self altogether.
I've often received a weird feeling of nirvana from noisy music that would fit in with what you've described in this post. If I can receive this nirvana just from listening, I can only imagine what type of nirvana the person performing said noisy music must be going through at the point of recording.
It would certainly explain how noisy music that has almost nothing but noise going for it, such as many (not all, though) varieties of hardcore punk, manages to not just grab an audience, but maintain it and ultimately become a part of the culture.
But then, you should keep in mind that I also think too much.
The award for largest discrepancy between a musician's appearance and the music they make goes toooooooooooooooooooooo
dunno how old he is in that picture but according to last.fm he was born just about a year before i was
and as a drummer im used to childhood ridiculousness. dont worry bout it. thomas pridgen had a zildjian endorsement when he was 9. the drummer on the original recording of 'peaches en regalia' was like 15 or 16. and buddy rich was touring and performing before he was two
Their first three albums are all highly recommendable, in case you're curious. It's a shame Danny Elfman's soundtrack work doesn't have the same level of creativity that his Oingo Boingo work does.
On a related note, I listened to I Can Hear The Heart Beating As One by Yo La Tengo a few days ago, partially because of Srendi's recommendation. On the whole, it was a pretty swell art-pop album, with "Sugarcube" and "Autumn Sweater" in particular being highlights. Thanks for getting me to give them another chance, Srendi.
Yes he's on Pitchfork, and I don't always agree with him (honestly I disagree with him more, especially on specifics), but he makes really good points, and even when he doesn't, he argues what he believes well.
I found most of that hopelessly self-deafeatingly cynical and don't agree with the majority of it, but "The US is such a fucking rock'n'roll shithole." is a really good quote.
Partly it's my preference for a more stripped-down music in general, but also... hmm what's a good metaphor
Like if hip-hop beats were movies, that beat would be like The Pink Blob, a short film my best friend made when he was 12 and gave out at his birthday party, whereas a trap beat would be like a Michael Bay movie.
Neither of them are complex or well thought out, but The Pink Blob is entertaining due to the fact that it doesn't really stick to the rules and it's got a kinda earnestness to it. Whereas a Michael Bay movie is a pile of regurgitated cliches with some added explosions and top end FX.
Partly it's my preference for a more stripped-down music in general, but also... hmm what's a good metaphor
Like if hip-hop beats were movies, that beat would be like The Pink Blob, a short film my best friend made when he was 12 and gave out at his birthday party, whereas a trap beat would be like a Michael Bay movie.
Neither of them are complex or well thought out, but The Pink Blob is entertaining due to the fact that it doesn't really stick to the rules and it's got a kinda earnestness to it. Whereas a Michael Bay movie is a pile of regurgitated cliches with some added explosions and top end FX.
Not every trap beat is an overblown "classic banger" with cheap orchestra strings and synthesized horns though.
Take something like "Furnace Loop"
which, while the guy behind it is pretty well known (Hudson Mohawke is one half of TNGHT, one of the groups Pitchfork decided to spend last year fellating, not that they're not good, but yeah) the beat itself is pretty clearly something thrown together in...FL? Ableton? Probably a cracked copy at that, and probably pretty quickly, but listen to those "war-warwarwar" noises and tell me it's not worth listening to.
(Honestly there are better examples, but I'm not as into trap as I briefly was a few months ago, so that's the only one I'm remembering right now.)
also you should find a copy of The Pink Blob and upload it to Youtube.
I would argue that there's a difference between conscious sloppiness and laziness posing as artfulness.
I also find it somewhat hypocritical that you frequently say "I dislike X because X does Y and I hate Y on principle" (see: video reviewing, etc.) and then turn on someone for doing the same thing.
Suddenly things got a lot more civil... Hmm.
Getting off this subject (which would best be reserved to PMs), I love a good mix of hi-fi and lo-fi elements. My personal sonic aesthetic is really about texture: Stimulating the senses in different ways to evoke certain ideas and emotions in the listener, whether direct or indirect in nature, through different timbres and sonic approaches. Maybe it's some subconscious assimilation of my nonconformism pressing against my bourgeois heritage—to use Thaemlitz' logic—but I just love throwing grimy, weirdly recorded sounds against clear, lush ones to strange effects.
I also find it somewhat hypocritical that you frequently say "I dislike X because X does Y and I hate Y on principle" (see: video reviewing, etc.) and then turn on someone for doing the same thing.
This is pretty true, honestly, but I'm wildly inconsistent about that sort of thing anyway.
For what it's worth I do have my reasons for really, really not liking Youtube reviewers but going into them rarely changes anyone's mind, in my experience.
Getting off this subject (which would best be reserved to PMs), I love a good mix of hi-fi and lo-fi elements. My personal sonic aesthetic is really about texture: Stimulating the senses in different ways to evoke certain ideas and emotions in the listener, whether direct or indirect in nature, through different timbres and sonic approaches. Maybe it's some subconscious assimilation of my nonconformism pressing against my bourgeois heritage—to use Thaemlitz' logic—but I just love throwing grimy, weirdly recorded sounds against clear, lush ones to strange effects.
I prefer keeping shine and grime separate generally. Contrast is one thing, but I find that extreme differences in audio fidelity in the same song can be really jarring.
^^^ The roots of a bad trend tend to be far better than what succeeds them, particularly when it comes to dance music. Bad trends can also produce good material. So it goes.
in terms of trap i'm thinking more the bit that seems to be the latest fad in the "EDM" community.
I guess you could argue HudMo is part of that.
Trap is one of those things where it's really confusing because two different but related things are called Trap (there's Electronic Trap, which is TNGHT and such, and there's hip-hop trap which is like, Young Chop or Lex Luger or more obscure people who are better but whose names you would not recognize).
Another genre with a similar problem is World Music.
The roots of a bad trend tend to be far better than what succeeds them, particularly when it comes to dance music. Bad trends can also produce good material. So it goes.
or if you're really lucky, something so terrible it's hilarious.
this was produced by a man named "DHamBeatz", for the record. By produced I mean it's quite likely that Keef just sort of casually stole the beat from some dude's soundcloud.
if no one minds, I'd like to go on an irrelevant tangent about how self-sabotage has become an "in" thing to do, artistically, in the hip-hop scene, and how this annoys the shit out of me.
I also find it somewhat hypocritical that you frequently say "I dislike X because X does Y and I hate Y on principle" (see: video reviewing, etc.) and then turn on someone for doing the same thing.
This is pretty true, honestly, but I'm wildly inconsistent about that sort of thing anyway.
For what it's worth I do have my reasons for really, really not liking Youtube reviewers but going into them rarely changes anyone's mind, in my experience.
Getting off this subject (which would best be reserved to PMs), I love a good mix of hi-fi and lo-fi elements. My personal sonic aesthetic is really about texture: Stimulating the senses in different ways to evoke certain ideas and emotions in the listener, whether direct or indirect in nature, through different timbres and sonic approaches. Maybe it's some subconscious assimilation of my nonconformism pressing against my bourgeois heritage—to use Thaemlitz' logic—but I just love throwing grimy, weirdly recorded sounds against clear, lush ones to strange effects.
I prefer keeping shine and grime separate generally. Contrast is one thing, but I find that extreme differences in audio fidelity in the same song can be really jarring.
Yeah. I didn't mean to be nasty about it but... it pressed some kind of button in my brain.
I think that the essential component of any production is the intended emotion or idea. The music is the vehicle for that abstraction, and you do whatever it is that is necessary to further that idea or emotion. Mixing radically different sounds to create a new gestalt is often part of that for me because the emotions and ideas that I am trying to convey are frequently a little weird. I like conveying dream-emotions a lot, and situations where things like dread and ecstasy meet.
if no one minds, I'd like to go on an irrelevant tangent about how self-sabotage has become an "in" thing to do, artistically, in the hip-hop scene, and how this annoys the shit out of me.
if no one minds, I'd like to go on an irrelevant tangent about how self-sabotage has become an "in" thing to do, artistically, in the hip-hop scene, and how this annoys the shit out of me.
Go for it.
Right so
lately, I've read a lot of positive reviews of two albums.
One is 19 / 36 by Kool AD, formerly of Das Racist, and the other is No York! by Blu, formerly of Blu & Exile. Both of these guys are really, really good rappers. Kool AD murders his part on "Amazing" (he's the bearded one with glasses) and while I'm less familiar with Blu, he's a competent lyricist, if nothing else (he's not really the kind of rapper I listen to, he's sort of a Nas-ish dude).
In any case, both of the albums I just mentioned are fantastically shitty, for much the same reason. On 19 / 36 Kool puts on his best Lil B mask and for whatever reason, delivers maybe a dozen good lines across the entire double album. It's a fucking painful listen, and most of the tracks sound a lot like this
awesome beats, really lazy, really shitty rapping with stupid adlibs that we are, I guess, supposed to either find funny or think that his rapping way worse than he actually can makes him somehow clever or intelligent.
No York! is less overly pretentious but full of a lot of the same kind of derpery, and the beat selection on that album is this weird, 8-bit pit dug out by Brainfeeder at their most let-field. Generally, the "beats" just don't sound like they're supposed to be rapped over at all.
I just don't understand how any of this makes for a compelling, interesting, or pleasurable listening experience. Not that a given album has to be all three, but the albums are intentionally repulsive to the point where they're infuriating, and for some reason, this "they wanted to make you hate it, so you have to love it" mentality is now widespread. I realize I'm giving only two examples (one of which I am far more familiar with than the other) but it's just bothersome and I'd really rather it not become a "thing", and I feel it will.
Mojave Music said: Sredni Vashtar said: Mojave Music said:I guess that makes sense.I should note that I really don't get that sense from your music though. I often find myself thinking of specific locations when I listen to you.
What kind of places? I'm curious about this.
salt flats and like abandoned shacks and stuff.
Well, that kind of fits: I really like the Japanese dual concept of wabi-sabi, otherwise known as the aesthetic appreciation of abandoned and flawed things. The whole thing about visions of lonely places feels very in line with that. It also ties into how in dreams, you are basically alone in your own mind, regardless of apparent circumstances.
Also skimming through the stuff on No York!, some of these songs are really great, do you know if there's anywhere I could get an instrumental version of the album?
Comments
I don't know how much anyone cares, but a temporary supergroup called The H-Town Allstars went over a remix of a Beyonce song and it's rather awesome.
H-Town Allstars is Bun B, ZRo, Scarface, Willie D, Slim Thug, & Lil Keke
and as a drummer im used to childhood ridiculousness. dont worry bout it. thomas pridgen had a zildjian endorsement when he was 9. the drummer on the original recording of 'peaches en regalia' was like 15 or 16. and buddy rich was touring and performing before he was two
contribution: i absolutely cant get enough of this song (and the choice of video is fantastic)
RiFF RAFF has one of the best twitter feeds ever
appropriately, he raps like the twitter feed of someone who is fucking insane.
SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FUCK IS HE TALKING ABOUT
but if I turned into him I would get to ride a Superman Lamborghini.
I don't know what that is but it sounds cool.
I like this guy.
Yes he's on Pitchfork, and I don't always agree with him (honestly I disagree with him more, especially on specifics), but he makes really good points, and even when he doesn't, he argues what he believes well.
also he linked to this in the bottom
which is always a good thing.
I don't understand how you can dislike trap for being lazy and then like a song whose entire beat is an accidental stutter of the Impeach Break.
don't get me wrong I like it too, but...yeah.
im posting this, specifically this, because i think the bad youtube audio quality really adds something to this song
Not every trap beat is an overblown "classic banger" with cheap orchestra strings and synthesized horns though.
Take something like "Furnace Loop"
which, while the guy behind it is pretty well known (Hudson Mohawke is one half of TNGHT, one of the groups Pitchfork decided to spend last year fellating, not that they're not good, but yeah) the beat itself is pretty clearly something thrown together in...FL? Ableton? Probably a cracked copy at that, and probably pretty quickly, but listen to those "war-warwarwar" noises and tell me it's not worth listening to.
(Honestly there are better examples, but I'm not as into trap as I briefly was a few months ago, so that's the only one I'm remembering right now.)
also you should find a copy of The Pink Blob and upload it to Youtube.
This is pretty true, honestly, but I'm wildly inconsistent about that sort of thing anyway.
For what it's worth I do have my reasons for really, really not liking Youtube reviewers but going into them rarely changes anyone's mind, in my experience.
I prefer keeping shine and grime separate generally. Contrast is one thing, but I find that extreme differences in audio fidelity in the same song can be really jarring.I guess you could argue HudMo is part of that.
Trap is one of those things where it's really confusing because two different but related things are called Trap (there's Electronic Trap, which is TNGHT and such, and there's hip-hop trap which is like, Young Chop or Lex Luger or more obscure people who are better but whose names you would not recognize).
Another genre with a similar problem is World Music.
or if you're really lucky, something so terrible it's hilarious.
this was produced by a man named "DHamBeatz", for the record. By produced I mean it's quite likely that Keef just sort of casually stole the beat from some dude's soundcloud.
I guess that makes sense.
I should note that I really don't get that sense from your music though. I often find myself thinking of specific locations when I listen to you.
Right so
lately, I've read a lot of positive reviews of two albums.
One is 19 / 36 by Kool AD, formerly of Das Racist, and the other is No York! by Blu, formerly of Blu & Exile. Both of these guys are really, really good rappers. Kool AD murders his part on "Amazing" (he's the bearded one with glasses) and while I'm less familiar with Blu, he's a competent lyricist, if nothing else (he's not really the kind of rapper I listen to, he's sort of a Nas-ish dude).
In any case, both of the albums I just mentioned are fantastically shitty, for much the same reason. On 19 / 36 Kool puts on his best Lil B mask and for whatever reason, delivers maybe a dozen good lines across the entire double album. It's a fucking painful listen, and most of the tracks sound a lot like this
awesome beats, really lazy, really shitty rapping with stupid adlibs that we are, I guess, supposed to either find funny or think that his rapping way worse than he actually can makes him somehow clever or intelligent.
No York! is less overly pretentious but full of a lot of the same kind of derpery, and the beat selection on that album is this weird, 8-bit pit dug out by Brainfeeder at their most let-field. Generally, the "beats" just don't sound like they're supposed to be rapped over at all.
I just don't understand how any of this makes for a compelling, interesting, or pleasurable listening experience. Not that a given album has to be all three, but the albums are intentionally repulsive to the point where they're infuriating, and for some reason, this "they wanted to make you hate it, so you have to love it" mentality is now widespread. I realize I'm giving only two examples (one of which I am far more familiar with than the other) but it's just bothersome and I'd really rather it not become a "thing", and I feel it will.
What kind of places? I'm curious about this.
salt flats and like abandoned shacks and stuff.
Well, that kind of fits: I really like the Japanese dual concept of wabi-sabi, otherwise known as the aesthetic appreciation of abandoned and flawed things. The whole thing about visions of lonely places feels very in line with that. It also ties into how in dreams, you are basically alone in your own mind, regardless of apparent circumstances.