Good lord Darunia is terrible. They decided to make a slow hulking dude with a big hitbox and slow attacks, but forgot to make them do any damage. And then made him one of your only playable characters for almost the entire home stretch of the story. I spent a good minute just wailing on a high-priority Lizalfos attacking the home base and got him down to barely half. Eventually I just gave up and ran Lana across half the map to kill it in five seconds.
Like, the game even seems to recognize that he's unusually stupid even for AI characters. Linkle's second mission is to save him from taking a flying leap into a huge pack of elites because WAAUUUUGH, and the only reason it's possible is because it's tuned around his pathfinding being so terrible that you have time to do three escort missions before he reaches the dudes that are going to murder his dumb ass.
I think there are more characters than they could really develop properly. Some characters have really solid movesets and mechanics, and others just don't. The rule of thumb seems to be that the more central characters to Zelda lore get the mechanical limelight.
Instead of opening that wound, I'mma talk about Dark Souls 3, because it's equalling Bloodborne for me in terms of general enjoyment. Dot points for reader convenience:
The weapon skill system is really good. All weapons (and shields, and casting equipment) have a special function accessed by pressing L2 or equivalent. Most of these appear on multiple weapons, although boss equipment sometimes have unique functions. Some of these functions alter your attacks, some are buffs, some are individual special attacks, etc. In some cases, weapons have skills very atypical of their weapon type, such as a greatsword with a spear charge.
The Demon's Souls upgrade options return, but in a more refined form. Weapons can be infused with damage traits, including status traits and scaling modifiers. So you can find a weapon you like and bump up a type of scaling to be more convenient for your build, which is helpful for too many reasons to list here.
General level design is excellent. The world itself is relatively linear so far, but each area can be explored in a variety of ways. Enemy encounters are more challenging than in previous games, at least in my opinion, but bonfires are generally more numerous/easily accessible. This has the effect of making each area feel riskier to explore than is actually the case, plus smooths out the learning curve for less experienced players.
Rings less commonly provide static buffs and more commonly activate special rules. One ring generates focus points (your magic and weapon skill resource) whenever you land a critical attack, whereas another provides an attack bonus inversely proportional to the weight of your equipped gear. Between this approach to rings and the diversity of weapon options via weapon skills and infusion types, there are many builds that are both interesting and viable in power terms.
The boss battles are often the focal points of Souls games, and I feel Dark Souls 3 has the most interesting boss roster since Demon's Souls. Some bosses are head-to-head fights, but others pose interesting problems or have optional alternate victory conditions. As bosses lose HP, they'll change their behaviours and the music will fade additional tracks in, deepening the aural experience while the difficulty ramps up. The overall effect is to ensure that every boss fight is dramatic and nail-biting, whether you're struggling or dominating.
tl;dr: Dark Souls 3 is the most mechanically diverse, intricately designed, and possibly well executed FromSoftware game yet, with perhaps only Bloodborne competing with it. Everything good about the previous games is present and most of the chaff is gone, although I do wish the Dark Souls 1 poise system was back. Can't have everything, I guess. Merely most things. The vast, vast majority of things.
Hey Sredni you'd probably really like the overall aesthetic and tone of the Dark Souls/Bloodborne games.
Though I don't think you'd enjoy the level of skill it requires so probably just watch an LP if anything.
Souls games are honestly more strategy oriented than skill oriented. Some twitch skill is beneficial, but success doesn't hinge on mastering every option and system. Build a character around your strengths as a player and you're good to go, whether you're a twitchlord or a resource manager or anything in between.
Perhaps this is bitter, but I'm waiting for the backlash to roll in.
It's already sort of started and I'm sure it's just going to get worse.
The backlash is most likely to come from... I don't really know who. People who don't play Souls games don't play Souls games, and otherwise, it's so far combined the best of previous iterations. If I had to put my finger on a particular failing so far, it would be that the magic options seem to have gotten the least additional diversity and are therefore lasers in a game that doesn't have gameplay depth for lasers. Even bows got upgraded, though, to the point where arrows can be loosed directly from an evasion; you're no longer inherently fucked if you're caught with a bow in close quarters and can even exploit the benefits of lock-on range.
My comment is more that the Souls fanbase is perpetually unpleasable.
Dark Souls 2 got the worst of it (some complaints about it were valid but that was lost in the endless claptrap of "but the textures, bro! THE TEXTURES") but people bitched about Bloodborne too and will probably bitch about Demon Souls 2 or Bloodborne 2 or whatever we get next.
I actually quite like the magic system in the Souls series. I think that conceptually I preferred the Vancian magic in 1 and 2, but I haven't played 3 yet (and won't be able to for a year or so at least) so I can't really comment on how well it works in practice.
I just really still don't understand why some people actively tried to invalidate other people liking DS2.
Especially since that invalidation usually took one of two forms:
1. you being linked to a video where a guy pulls out a bow and zooms in on a rock texture, followed by the word LOL flashing across the screen in Arial font
I just really still don't understand why some people actively tried to invalidate other people liking DS2.
Especially since that invalidation usually took one of two forms:
1. you being linked to a video where a guy pulls out a bow and zooms in on a rock texture, followed by the word LOL flashing across the screen in Arial font
2. "YOU GO UP INTO THE LAVA IT MAKES NO SENSE"
B TEAM B TEAM B TEAM
These people always forget Dark Souls had some dodgy bits too.
I am so looking forward to eventually understanding what you all are talking about.
Also eventually buying the first for my laptop (and beyond should I enjoy it which I think I will). Much as I love a free code, the laptop is just much mite convenient for me than the 360.
I think the only thing I'm not looking forward to is potential PvP action when I'm not in the mood for it.
I probably have more fond memories of part 2 of Dark Souls than I should, because that's when I properly "got" the game and became confident I could beat it.
I found DkSII to be worse than the first, but mostly for mechanical reasons, like how light and heavy attacks couldn't be smoothly combined in one attack string. Or for balance reasons, like how magic was really powerful but not terribly interesting. It's like inverse Bloodborne, which is regrettable because Bloodborne is fantastic.
As I hear things, DkSII was pretty much a development mess that got rescued at the last minute, ergo some of its mechanical gaffes. Myr's right, though; much of the community doesn't talk about its fundamental flaws in favour of complaining about superficial ones.
I found DkSII to be worse than the first, but mostly for mechanical reasons, like how light and heavy attacks couldn't be smoothly combined in one attack string. Or for balance reasons, like how magic was really powerful but not terribly interesting. It's like inverse Bloodborne, which is regrettable because Bloodborne is fantastic.
As I hear things, DkSII was pretty much a development mess that got rescued at the last minute, ergo some of its mechanical gaffes. Myr's right, though; much of the community doesn't talk about its fundamental flaws in favour of complaining about superficial ones.
Most of this never really bothered me. I don't care as much about combat "flow" as many people seem to I guess, and I don't know much about actual swordplay at all, the motions looked very nice to me.
Magic I suppose I didn't mind being overpowered because I love magic in general, and I think the Souls series has (or had, now that DS3 is back to a mana bar) a novel way of dealing with it.
It was very annoying though to be my dex/pyro character, get someone down to a few pixels of health remaining, finish them with a fireball while they tried to estus, and then get bitched at for using "unbalanced" and "dishonorable" techniques. That specific scenario happened many times!
In general I like DS2 a bit more than the first game because all details of its development aside, it just seemed like a smoother ride to me and I found it infinitely more replayable. There were a handful of really high highs in DS1 (Ash Lake is one of the most beautiful places in any game, full stop. Anor Londo is great fun aside from the archers, The Duke's Archives save the second half of the game singlehandedly, etc.) but also some really low lows (said archers, the entirety of Lost Izalith and much of the endgame in general). Whereas I few that DS2 had fewer "wow" moments but was altogether more solid.
And I guess it comes down--taking reasnoable arguments only into account-to a difference of how one likes their games. I prefer something that's consistent and replayable over something that'll BLOW MY MIND, DAWG all of once before it becomes rote and while I do still like DS1 quite a lot, I feel like it was more the latter thing.
The combat thing is more to do with timing than anything else. Like, most Souls games can be light attack -> heavy attack -> light attack, whereas DkSII is light attack GAP. heavy attack GAP. light attack. Dark Souls II actually had the most references (that I've seen so far) to real swordplay techniques, but there was very limited flow between different attack types from a gameplay perspective. It makes finding safe, effective attack sequences much more difficult for no particular reason and punishes close combat builds arbitrarily, which is a shame because the Souls series is one of the few fantasy series where melee characters are typically just as powerful as their sorcerous counterparts.
Not sure what people were on about with your "imbalanced" and "dishonourable" approach, mind you. Pyro has never been the strongest magic option, and its spell options usually lack the range of other magic options, so it's inherently the riskiest type of magic (discounting the relative lack of required stat investment).
If you liked the general swing of Souls games but want more sorcery, I'd recommend Dragon's Dogma. I'd say it has more interesting spellcasting than the Souls games by a good margin, especially given the existence of the Mage Knight and Magic Archer classes.
I actually sort of liked the pauses even though I understand why many would not. Made combat feel slower to me, which is something I like.
(Mind you I am fairly confident "Dark Souls' combat would be even better if it was even more methodical" is not a popular opinion)
My witch character in DS2 got hit with far fewer "ooh, you're a little bitch" type comments actually. Maybe people just expect it when you're wearing the entire Black Witch Set and don't have a weapon that's not a catalyst.
and that comment about Dragon's Dogma has intrigued me, maybe I will check it out.
Anyone here familiar with Tales of Maj-Eyal (besides Tensei but also her if she wants to comment)? I was reading the TVT page because I wanted to see what they had to say about Summoners and Necromancers (curiosity sated), and it reminded me of how little progress I felt like I was with actually learning the game, which has not been an issue with me with any of the other roguelikes I've played. My stats for the record involved killing two or three early bosses total over a lot of deaths in the span of ~5 hours.
Anyway I feel like maybe playing it more in the future, is the point. I'd just like to know if that feeling of not getting anywhere is on me (possibly due to impatience?), the game, or both.
Mm, you are right, I did not remember that. I'm not sure how to feel about that personally. Like, having just a whole, whole bunch of stuff? That's neat, even if I'm not in it for the story. A lot of permutations look so fun, so like, hm...
I'm trying to cap a keep and/or farm kills because A-ranking adventures always requires 1200 (that's really dumb btw, because it's very, very easy to conquer the entire map and completely obliterate the enemy army without 1000 even spawning). I'm usually on a tight time limit because something else important is going to happen.
Then a spam of allied units rolls in and start milling about. They take up the onscreen unit cap so barely any enemies render. They don't actually do anything because even if enemies could render for them to fight, they'd lose immediately. I can't just leave them alone to cap it themselves because they always, always find a way to get their entire squad annihilated by like two 1HP bokoblins. In at least one case I lost the mission because that keep was attacking my allied base and I couldn't stop it.
And for some reason it's always FUCKING GORONS even if it doesn't make any sense for them to be there. Water Temple? Gorons. Twilight Palace? Gorons. Skyloft? Motherfucking Gorons. It's like the game is still going out of its way to make me hate Darunia even more by making everything that remotely resembles him an active hindrance (it's working).
Then a spam of allied units rolls in and start milling about. They take up the onscreen unit cap so barely any enemies render.
Oh this is super annoying, i hate when that happens
We had very different reactions to the Gorons, haha. i always felt like a monster for killing those guys, they're so lovable.
Some more variation in the armies would perhaps have been nice. Zoras, say, or Chilfos. Maybe a Gerudo army with Iron Knuckle officers. It'd be cool to go into battle with an allied army consisting of Hylian, Goron and Zora troops. Also it would have been nice to see some of the weirder monster types making an appearance, like Wallmasters and Majora's Mask.
So I'm thinking RetroArch is my best bet for emulating older stuff like Pokemon Crystal or Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, and so on? This list was handy and I remember downloading RA months ago but I never actually got around to making use of it, easily distracted person that I can be.
We had very different reactions to the Gorons, haha. i always felt like a monster for killing those guys, they're so lovable.
It's gotten to the point that I'm using my stash of Rocks for most of the apothecary brews out of spite. For all I know they're fucking Gorons in disguise waiting for their chance to eat all my rare items.
Also, how is King Daphnes a known legendary figure? I'm willing to accept Wind Waker characters showing up due to time screwery, but if everyone knew about Twilight Princess as history then that's mutually exclusive to Wind Waker also being known as history.
I was kind of bummed at the lack of Zora army too. I know most of the places you go are categorically inappropriate environments for them, but that doesn't stop the goddamned Gorons.
So I'm thinking RetroArch is my best bet for emulating older stuff like Pokemon Crystal or Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, and so on? This list was handy and I remember downloading RA months ago but I never actually got around to making use of it, easily distracted person that I can be.
I was emulating SotN using PCSXR, which works, but seemed a little wonky. Think I'm gonna try this RetroArch thing.
Also me. The timeline seems to be poorly retrofitted for the sake of a type of narrative consumption Zelda games weren't intended for and aren't good at.
Oh yeah, I remember what tactics I used in late-game BD. I used Utsusemi + Default spam on my physical attackers and that one Salve combo that revives you and heals you 5000 HP.
Comments
what has become of this beautiful thread
I present the worst Super Metroid hack ever.
i think i'm done here, this is just going to get circular otherwise i think
this is excellent
tbh i already suggested all the mechnical changes i'd care to make in my last post on the subject (the one that sparked that horrible derail)
i liked the game a lot, what i liked MOST about the game was that it had lots of Zelda stuff
so to improve the game, the most important thing you could do is to include more Zelda stuff
i haven't played Legends but i gather it delivers on that front
Also eventually buying the first for my laptop (and beyond should I enjoy it which I think I will). Much as I love a free code, the laptop is just much mite convenient for me than the 360.
I think the only thing I'm not looking forward to is potential PvP action when I'm not in the mood for it.
(Mind you I am fairly confident "Dark Souls' combat would be even better if it was even more methodical" is not a popular opinion)
We had very different reactions to the Gorons, haha. i always felt like a monster for killing those guys, they're so lovable.
Some more variation in the armies would perhaps have been nice. Zoras, say, or Chilfos. Maybe a Gerudo army with Iron Knuckle officers. It'd be cool to go into battle with an allied army consisting of Hylian, Goron and Zora troops. Also it would have been nice to see some of the weirder monster types making an appearance, like Wallmasters and Majora's Mask.
however i think the timeline is generally best ignored anyway because who even cares