You know, saying that an aspect of a series is sexist doesn't make the series overall sexist. What we're trying to say here is that this aspect of the series is a questionable one, not that the whole series is problematic.
That's not what I'm arguing with at all. I'm saying that the aspect of the series isn't sexist.
Kexruct said: Sredni Vashtar said:You know, saying that an aspect of a series is sexist doesn't make the series overall sexist. What we're trying to say here is that this aspect of the series is a questionable one, not that the whole series is problematic.
That's not what I'm arguing with at all. I'm saying that the aspect of the series isn't sexist.
a8 said:Also, no, in-universe justifications don't necessarily ameliorate sexist qualities, not even within specific series.
You keep saying that but you have yet to provide an explanation of why.
Because if what you say is true, than that means any time a female character is in any way disempowered, it is sexist. But sexism isn't about individuals, it's about things as a whole.
Also, no, in-universe justifications don't necessarily ameliorate sexist qualities, not even within specific series.
You keep saying that but you have yet to provide an explanation of why.
Because if what you say is true, than that means any time a female character is in any way disempowered, it is sexist. But sexism isn't about individuals, it's about things as a whole.
That's not true. What Bobby is saying is this: The fact that this character is consistently disempowered and treated as a human MacGuffin by the script makes this aspect of the series sexist. It's not about characters in general being disempowered, but about this particular character consistently being treated like a prop by the plot rather than like a character.
Granted, she does show proactivity now and then, but it is almost always when she is displayed in a less feminine light, tacitly equating femininity with a lack of agency. This is problematic, and saying it isn't is just silly.
You know, saying that an aspect of a series is sexist doesn't make the series overall sexist. What we're trying to say here is that this aspect of the series is a questionable one, not that the whole series is problematic.
That's not what I'm arguing with at all. I'm saying that the aspect of the series isn't sexist.
Also, no, in-universe justifications don't necessarily ameliorate sexist qualities, not even within specific series.
You keep saying that but you have yet to provide an explanation of why.
Because if what you say is true, than that means any time a female character is in any way disempowered, it is sexist. But sexism isn't about individuals, it's about things as a whole.
That's not true. What Bobby is saying is this: The fact that this character is consistently disempowered and treated as a human MacGuffin by the script makes this aspect of the series sexist. It's not about characters in general being disempowered, but about this particular character consistently being treated like a prop by the plot rather than like a character.
Granted, she does show proactivity now and then, but it is almost always when she is displayed in a less feminine light, tacitly equating femininity with a lack of agency. This is problematic, and saying it isn't is just silly.
Traditionally feminine roles are less prone to violence, and the Zelda series has, without exception, always featured combat as an integral aspect. And Zelda is the only female character who is disempowered other than the sages, with other female characters often proving vitally important to the story.
Once again: The aspect is problematic, not the series.
I KNOW THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT I'M ARGUING AGAINST.
You have yet to say, however, why having a female character being disempowered is problematic though! You have literally just said that it is without explaining why!
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I didn't want to have to play kindergarten teacher, but since Kex seems to have such an emotional investment in this topic I think I should make three certain things clear:
Nobody is saying the Zelda games are bad games for using a sexist plot element.
Nobody is saying you're a bad person for liking the Zelda series.
Nobody is saying you're sexist for liking the Zelda series.
I didn't want to have to play kindergarten teacher, but since Kex seems to have such an emotional investment in this topic I think I should make three certain things clear:
Nobody is saying the Zelda games are bad games for using a sexist plot element.
Nobody is saying you're a bad person for liking the Zelda series.
Nobody is saying you're sexist for liking the Zelda series.
Okay?
I understand this, and I have understood it for the entirety of the argument. I don't understand why that's so hard to get.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Okay, then why are you letting yourself get so worked up about this?
I'm not even going to touch on the 4-page argument about Zelda. Maybe. Nothing I can say will change anything. Probably.
That is all.
These are solid points, although given the hints made at the end of the video, I get the feeling that the second video will rectify these issues by proffering some solutions in addition to the overview. But the author of this article hopes that they are jumping the gun a bit themselves, so that's already sort of addressed...
I'm not even going to touch on the 4-page argument about Zelda. Maybe. Nothing I can say will change anything. Probably.
That is all.
i read it. It's a good post. The point about misrepresentation by omission was a good one, though i'd argue that the precise details are not necessarily relevant to the video's overall point. i thought the idea of a game where the hero has to rescue the heroine while she escapes was an interesting one (funnily enough, this actually happens in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, to an extent).
^^^ Not really. He points out some issues with the examples that Sarkeesian provided and the way in which she framed them, but he never says that X excuses Y because Z.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I keep waffling on whether or not I should watch the video that started all this.
I'm kinda curious, but at the same time it's 25 minutes and I think I pretty much already know what she'd say in it.
You're making the bold assumption that I have to have a logical reason to get worked up about things.
But if I had to guess, I'd say because when I'm faced with a brick wall argument like this, my first thought is to continue rather than stop.
You need to realize that flailing around and going "I KNOW I'M BEING STUPID AND OVERLY EMTIONAL!!!" does not excuse your being stupid and overly emotional. Knock it off, seriously. You're not that young, you know better than this.
You're making the bold assumption that I have to have a logical reason to get worked up about things.
But if I had to guess, I'd say because when I'm faced with a brick wall argument like this, my first thought is to continue rather than stop.
You need to realize that flailing around and going "I KNOW I'M BEING STUPID AND OVERLY EMTIONAL!!!" does not excuse your being stupid and overly emotional. Knock it off, seriously. You're not that young, you know better than this.
You're right! I'll just stop getting annoyed about trivial things! How did I not think about that before?
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Well that's good.
Though, I agree that if she was given that money with the promise of furthering her little vlogs, she should do SOMETHING to show she's putting it towards improving them.
Hell, with that kind of scratch, she could fly around the country interviewing females in the video game industry.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
Even if Anita never makes a single Tropes Against Women video, the money she raised was well spent. She did more than she set out to do in examining the role of women in video gaming, she unearthed and became a lighting rod for all of the horrible misogyny endemic to gaming culture. Seriously. Even if nothing ever comes out she's earned that cash 10 times over already.
This is why I don't call myself a "gamer."
Anyway I am not surprised that people would do this to her, because like the above quote says, it is clear now that she is this lightning rod for gamer nurd sexism.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
Also, she clearly doesn't need all the money, nor has she done anything with it, apparently (yet), but she was given a lot more than she asked for! She didn't ask for 150,000 dollars.
Also, she clearly doesn't need all the money, nor has she done anything with it, apparently (yet), but she was given a lot more than she asked for! She didn't ask for 150,000 dollars.
Most of those comments were written before she posted her first video a couple of days ago.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
They are maybe not wrong then, but it is still frightening that someone would intentionally lead the internet into believing that she spent 1,000 dollars on shoes in order to make them upset about this. Also, it is a good reminder that fact-checking is important. >_>
Comments
^ She was still the one who lost her body, and still consequently defenceless.
That's not what I'm arguing with at all. I'm saying that the aspect of the series isn't sexist.
Again: How is this aspect not sexist?
You keep saying that but you have yet to provide an explanation of why.
This itself takes place within an overall cultural trend of representing women as damsels in distress, mind.
That's not true. What Bobby is saying is this: The fact that this character is consistently disempowered and treated as a human MacGuffin by the script makes this aspect of the series sexist. It's not about characters in general being disempowered, but about this particular character consistently being treated like a prop by the plot rather than like a character.
That's not true. What Bobby is saying is this: The fact that this character is consistently disempowered and treated as a human MacGuffin by the script makes this aspect of the series sexist. It's not about characters in general being disempowered, but about this particular character consistently being treated like a prop by the plot rather than like a character.
Traditionally feminine roles are less prone to violence, and the Zelda series has, without exception, always featured combat as an integral aspect. And Zelda is the only female character who is disempowered other than the sages, with other female characters often proving vitally important to the story.
THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT I'M ARGUING AGAINST.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
This is a blog post that I found. I think it describes my opinions on the video's quality as analysis.
I'm not even going to touch on the 4-page argument about Zelda. Maybe. Nothing I can say will change anything. Probably.
That is all.
...
Yeah i'm done here.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Turns out that '$1000 shoes' pic was photoshopped by Redditors. As far as we know.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Well that's good.
Though, I agree that if she was given that money with the promise of furthering her little vlogs, she should do SOMETHING to show she's putting it towards improving them.
Hell, with that kind of scratch, she could fly around the country interviewing females in the video game industry.
Anyway I am not surprised that people would do this to her, because like the above quote says, it is clear now that she is this lightning rod for gamer nurd sexism.