Talkin about Tumblrs, man

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  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    Kexruct said:

    Justice42 said:

    I'm fine with using the idea that "someone close to the hero has been captured and needs rescuing" but the idea that "heterosexual males would have hang ups about playing a woman rescuing a man" is certainly a stereotype I would not like to propagated. 

    And I agree. But then it brings up the whole "all female protagonists are overly sexualized" thing.
    The concern over running into a negative sterotype because we're avoiding a different sterotype shouldn't be a deterrent from attempting to avoid negative sterotypes in the first place.
  • More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    Banjo and Kazooie come to mind. Kazooie is probably the only female classic platforming mascot. :) She shares the spotlight with Banjo, but Banjo is basically useless without her. ^_^
  • I just watched that bit again. All she said was "it can be sexist like this," or "it can be sexist like that"
  • Justice42 said:

    Kexruct said:

    Justice42 said:

    I'm fine with using the idea that "someone close to the hero has been captured and needs rescuing" but the idea that "heterosexual males would have hang ups about playing a woman rescuing a man" is certainly a stereotype I would not like to propagated. 

    And I agree. But then it brings up the whole "all female protagonists are overly sexualized" thing.
    The concern over running into a negative sterotype because we're avoiding a different sterotype shouldn't be a deterrent from attempting to avoid negative sterotypes in the first place.
    That wasn't what I was saying.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Kexruct said:

    I just watched that bit again. All she said was "it can be sexist like this," or "it can be sexist like that"

    ...no she didn't
  • a8 said:

    Kexruct said:

    There's a big difference between "the plot device" and "the way the plot device is used," and the fact that Sarkeesian couldn't tell the difference between the two is one of the big problems of the video.


    She specifically made that distinction from 12:45 - 13:28.

    Even if she hadn't i have no idea where you're getting this.  i would be astonished if she couldn't.
    Didn't she get, like, ten thousand dollars for this? That's a distinction she has to make. "Damsel in Distress is often a sexist trope" could've been explained in five minutes.
  • a8 said:

    Kexruct said:

    I just watched that bit again. All she said was "it can be sexist like this," or "it can be sexist like that"

    ...no she didn't
    Let's take a quick moment to clear up some common misconceptions about this trope.
    12:49
    As a plot device the Damsel in Distress is often grouped with other separate tropes,
    12:53
    including 'The Designated Victim', 'The Heroic Rescue' and 'The Smooch of Victory'.
    12:58
    However, it's important to remember that these associated conventions
    13:01
    are not necessarily a part of the Damsel in Distress trope itself.
    13:05
    So the woman in question may or may not play the victim role for the entire game or series
    13:09
    while our brave hero may or may not be successful in his rescue attempts.
    13:16
    All that is really required to fulfill the Damsel in Distress trope
    13:19
    is for a female character to be reduced to a state of helplessness
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    Kexruct said:

    Justice42 said:

    Kexruct said:

    Justice42 said:

    I'm fine with using the idea that "someone close to the hero has been captured and needs rescuing" but the idea that "heterosexual males would have hang ups about playing a woman rescuing a man" is certainly a stereotype I would not like to propagated. 

    And I agree. But then it brings up the whole "all female protagonists are overly sexualized" thing.
    The concern over running into a negative sterotype because we're avoiding a different sterotype shouldn't be a deterrent from attempting to avoid negative sterotypes in the first place.
    That wasn't what I was saying.
    What where you saying, then? I'm not even sure why you brought it up.

    Of course it's a problem in itself, but I'm not sure how it relates to what we're discussing. 
  • edited 2013-03-09 15:12:19
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    ^^ I.E. distinguishing between the device itself and how it's commonly used, yes.

  • Justice42 said:

    Kexruct said:

    Justice42 said:

    Kexruct said:

    Justice42 said:

    I'm fine with using the idea that "someone close to the hero has been captured and needs rescuing" but the idea that "heterosexual males would have hang ups about playing a woman rescuing a man" is certainly a stereotype I would not like to propagated. 

    And I agree. But then it brings up the whole "all female protagonists are overly sexualized" thing.
    The concern over running into a negative sterotype because we're avoiding a different sterotype shouldn't be a deterrent from attempting to avoid negative sterotypes in the first place.
    That wasn't what I was saying.
    What where you saying, then? I'm not even sure why you brought it up.

    Of course it's a problem in itself, but I'm not sure how it relates to what we're discussing. 
    I dunno, honestly.
  • edited 2013-03-09 15:15:09
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    To be fair for that money she could have gone into more depth.

    But it's only part one so i think we can cut her some slack until the second video materializes.
  • a8 said:

    ^^ I.E. distinguishing between the device itself and how it's commonly used, yes.

    But she basically said that the device was sexist no matter how it was used, and either way she failed to explain the device any further than "this is bad!"
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    She could have analyzed it, yeah.  But i guess that wasn't what she wanted to explore.

    It's not hard to see why it's sexist, anyway.  And no matter how it's used, it contributes to the overall trend.
  • a8 said:

    To be fair for that money she could have gone into more depth.

    Not could have, she has to, otherwise she basically just cheated a ton of people out of their money. And she doesn't seem to be considerably more intelligent than the average Tumblr feminist.
  • a8 said:


    It's not hard to see why it's sexist, anyway. 

    Exactly. Why did she devote so much time to it?

    a8 said:


    It's not hard to see why it's sexist, anyway.  And no matter how it's used, it contributes to the overall trend.

    True, but that doesn't mean every instance should be condemned, nor that every instance is inherently sexist.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Was it your money?

    Like i said, i kinda enjoyed the video, honestly.  i mean it wasn't that great but i liked it.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Kexruct said:

    Exactly. Why did she devote so much time to it?

    OK, now i'm confused. Did you want her to talk about it or didn't you?
    Kexruct said:

    True, but that doesn't mean every instance should be condemned, nor that every instance is inherently sexist.


    That didn't seem to be what she was saying though? She talked mainly about how prevalent it was, with specific, chiefly highly influential examples.
  • edited 2013-03-09 15:25:12
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    ignore this
  • image

    image

    image


    yes i like tumblr much
  • a8 said:

    Kexruct said:

    Exactly. Why did she devote so much time to it?

    OK, now i'm confused. Did you want her to talk about it or didn't you?
    What I was saying was that because it's easy to understand, i.e. doesn't take twenty-five minutes to explain.

    a8 said:

    Kexruct said:

    True, but that doesn't mean every instance should be condemned, nor that every instance is inherently sexist.


    That didn't seem to be what she was saying though? She talked mainly about how prevalent it was, with specific, chiefly highly influential examples.
    She only gave a token attempt at saying that it wasn't inherently sexist. The rest of the video was, as Yarrun noted earlier, the TvTropes page for Damsel in Distress with "and that's bad!" after every example.
  • edited 2013-03-09 15:31:17
    More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
    Didn't she get, like, ten thousand dollars for this?
    $150,000 +, which is about 26 times as much money as she asked for.
  • Even just asking for five thousand dollars seems like too much considering she did the exact same thing for free before.
  • And there's the bottom line, really. Regardless of your opinion on what she says, she's not really doing work anything worth that much money.
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    For $150,000 she could at least purchase a building and have it blown up behind her in the middle of one of her YouTube videos.
  • Justice42 said:

    For $150,000 she could at least purchase a building and have it blown up behind her in the middle of one of her YouTube videos.

    That's sexist. If it was a man you'd never have said that.
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    You're right. If it was a man, I'd expect he'd buy a building then punch it down with his bare hands while making his video and that is wrong.


    She should buy a building and punch it down with her bare hands while making her video.
  • image
    Three authors?

    THREE AUTHORS?
  • let's talk about

    image
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Kexruct said:


    a8 said:

    Kexruct said:

    Exactly. Why did she devote so much time to it?

    OK, now i'm confused. Did you want her to talk about it or didn't you?
    What I was saying was that because it's easy to understand, i.e. doesn't take twenty-five minutes to explain.

    a8 said:

    Kexruct said:

    True, but that doesn't mean every instance should be condemned, nor that every instance is inherently sexist.


    That didn't seem to be what she was saying though? She talked mainly about how prevalent it was, with specific, chiefly highly influential examples.
    She only gave a token attempt at saying that it wasn't inherently sexist. The rest of the video was, as Yarrun noted earlier, the TvTropes page for Damsel in Distress with "and that's bad!" after every example.
    Why are you so bitter about this? It's like you think that she's personally calling you a sexist or something.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Naney said:

    let's talk about


    image
    Oh wow.
  • more stuff by dubya:

    image

    image
  • THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    Bus-kin? I used to think I was a bus when I was about 10, but I imagine that doesn't count. :P
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    You thought you were a bus?  Like, actually?
  • THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    Well, it was more of a nervous tic where I'd pantomime a bus. I didn't have much belief in it beyond that, but it was enough to freak people out.
  • lee4hmz said:

    Well, it was more of a nervous tic where I'd pantomime a bus. I didn't have much belief in it beyond that, but it was enough to freak people out.

    you are repressing your true bus nature
  • edited 2013-03-09 16:32:15
    THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    I really liked school buses. :( I remember fantasizing about wanting to drive one, but as you probably know, school bus drivers don't make much money.
  • edited 2013-03-09 16:32:22
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    That's cool.  The interest, i mean, not the freaking people out.

    When i was 10 i wanted super powers and believed Kirlian photography could reveal mystical auras, i'm not judging.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i wonder how much bus drivers do make?

    You need a special licence for the job so that's got to be worth something.
  • Kexruct said:


    a8 said:

    Kexruct said:

    Exactly. Why did she devote so much time to it?

    OK, now i'm confused. Did you want her to talk about it or didn't you?
    What I was saying was that because it's easy to understand, i.e. doesn't take twenty-five minutes to explain.

    a8 said:

    Kexruct said:

    True, but that doesn't mean every instance should be condemned, nor that every instance is inherently sexist.


    That didn't seem to be what she was saying though? She talked mainly about how prevalent it was, with specific, chiefly highly influential examples.
    She only gave a token attempt at saying that it wasn't inherently sexist. The rest of the video was, as Yarrun noted earlier, the TvTropes page for Damsel in Distress with "and that's bad!" after every example.
    Why are you so bitter about this? It's like you think that she's personally calling you a sexist or something.
    I find it very hard to enjoy things if someone criticizes them.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Why?
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i kinda know the feeling, actually.

    That video was pretty mild, but harsh criticism tends to sour my feelings about stuff, so i can somewhat sympathize there.
  • Why?

    I guess I have kind of an obsessive personality.
  • Something I thought of after the fact:

    Sarkeesian seems to assume that all these examples are because of sexism rather than incompetence. Sexism is the result, not the cause.
  • image Wee yea erra chs hymmnos mea.
    Sexism through ignorance/incompetence really isn't much better.
  • edited 2013-03-09 17:00:14
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    They exist because of a sexist cultural meme and associated values.  Both Zelda and Peach directly reference the damsel-in-distress trope as it appears in mythology and courtly romance, which is what makes them such textbook examples, but all the examples she gave were part of an overall trend of female objectification in the media.

    Nobody said the developers were male chauvinists or anything of the kind.
  • Sexism through ignorance/incompetence really isn't much better.

    Functionally, yeah, you're right, but there's nothing malicious about it. That's what I was getting at.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    She never once said it was malicious.
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