Talkin about Tumblrs, man

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  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    or i guess probably not actually before the bigots got hold of the term, but before i wound up associating it with them primarily :/
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    That's understandable.

    I've taken to calling those people "shrill activist assholes" (SAAs) instead.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    that'll do i suppose

    i generally just prefer 'idiots' or 'douchebags' at this point tbh but i understand that won't do if you're trying to specifically complain about a particular group of people
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    Yeah, I got that term from my girlfriend.

    I think the idea was to use a term that was blunt enough that it couldn't be co-opted but was still descriptive of that group of people.
  • edited 2015-02-09 01:28:42
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    it can't be co-opted by social justice activists, but any pejorative for that group of people is susceptible to adoption and broader application by people who oppose social justice itself
  • edited 2015-02-09 01:41:22
    We can do anything if we do it together.
    That doesn't mean we should just stop trying to come up with terms that can adequately sum up our complaints with certain groups of people, though.

    Otherwise, you just have AU incomprehensibly ranting about "nerds" because they don't have a term to express what they really mean when they need to rant about specific people.
  • edited 2015-02-09 01:50:52
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Well i guess i'm not too keen on generalizations about groups of people, although i daresay i'm as guilty of them as anybody here.  Complaining about particular behaviours, rather than vaguely defined groups associated with those behaviours, is a viable alternative and one that i'm more comfortable with doing, myself.
  • edited 2015-02-09 02:06:21
    We can do anything if we do it together.
    Yeah, that is very understandable. I've been trying to get out of overt generalizations myself lately.

    I'm just still trying to find a compromise between still being able to complain about people like the folks who drove Gigi off of Tumblr, and letting them off the hook because of the unfortunately present risk of inadvertently throwing decent people into that line of fire.

    The "SAA" term is the best way to affect that compromise I have thought of so far, at least from my own personal point of view. You don't have to agree, obviously, but I don't think you ever thought that you did.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    i certainly won't dispute that shrill activist assholes drove Gigi off tumblr, for what it's worth.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    Using someone's blog to advertise seems highly illegal, or at least, very unethical.
  • edited 2015-02-09 02:19:42
    We can do anything if we do it together.
    ^^ Yeah, I never meant to imply that you did.

    I’m sorry if I sounded harsher there than I intended. I have a bad tendency to do that when I get into a debate.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I am also extremely tired of all the mud-slinging. I've friends who identify as SJWs, who also incidentally happen to use Tumblr a great deal, and they are all fine, upstanding, level-headed and balanced people.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Oh, no, i didn't think you were implying that.  (i didn't even think we were debating.)

    i feel that identifying as an SJW seems a peculiar thing to want to do and suggests having missed the original criticism, although i suppose at this point it's not surprising that some people are trying to reclaim it.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    What is the original criticism? Something you folks said?
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Ah... i don't actually know the origin of the term.

    But i always took it to mean immature, inexperienced attempts at activism, usually by people with a lot of anger and not a lot of sense, prone to conclusion-jumping and missing context and fine distinctions, as well as outright bullying and harrassment at times.
  • Tachyon said:

    But i always took it to mean immature, inexperienced attempts at activism, usually by people with a lot of anger and not a lot of sense, prone to conclusion-jumping and missing context and fine distinctions, as well as outright bullying and harassment at times.

    this was the defenition I saw most often before it came to mean "those zany liberal kids i hate"
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I don't actually see folks do that sort of thing.
  • I've seen lots of people do that thing
  • edited 2015-02-09 02:42:42
    We can do anything if we do it together.
    I repeatedly alluded to a pretty huge example of "that sort of thing" just a few posts above yours.
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    No, I mean, personally. I have a hard time believing something unless I can see it with my own eyes, instead of just people talking about it.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Fedoralords
  • Ehhh.... I think we're all a bit too quick to label anyone critical of religion a r/atheist. And I say this as someone who, uh, really isn't fond of antitheism.
  • that blog bugs me

    it's ugly
  • i agree with the core of what he's saying fwiw
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    I do feel that, if God actually existed (which I actually am willing to entertain the possibility of), he would be weirded out at us for writing a Holy Book that’s meant to represent everything of worth that he ever said.
  • I dunno, it just seems like he's throwing out a hell of a lot of theological nuance, and it's not like it's an even remotely new thought. If nothing else, Steven Fry's pretty intelligent and I would have hoped for a better answer even if it was one that I disagreed with.
  • Stephen Fry's gay, so I think I can see where the bitterness is coming from. I certainly wouldn't lump him in with the Angry Teenage Userbase (TM) of /r/atheism

    ...come to think of it, that principle also applies to "SJWs"
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    It's not a very good answer, but I'm not even a monotheist anymore, so what do I care?
  • i mean i don't really care what people believe but the variations on the whole judeo-christian model which are centered around the relationship between a loving god who created everything and the person doing the religioning seem

    off?

    Like the parts dont all add up in a satisfying or coherent way.
  • You and me both.

    #nonreligiousproblems
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    What I meant to say was that it wasn't a very good answer, but I only vaguely remember what it's like to ask the question.
  • naney said:

    i mean i don't really care what people believe but the variations on the whole judeo-christian model which are centered around the relationship between a loving god who created everything and the person doing the religioning seem

    off?

    Like the parts dont all add up in a satisfying or coherent way.

    How do you mean?
  • i dont feel like discussing this in depth right now really

    mainly because im kind of depressed and bitter atm and i strongly dislike offending people
  • How do I put this...

    it creates a framework for how the world works which I have no meaningful reason to engage in?
  • That doesn't really align with what Fry was saying, though. It's the outright condemnation that bugged me.
  • Well, he sees what he considers to be a strong moral inconsistency regarding how one should act towards this conception of god vs how he acts, and it seems like a very valid condemnation of that conception IMO.

    Like there are ways to work around it intellectually speaking, but there's no way I can see to get around his viewpoint that one should not worship an entity who creates a world in which such heinously immoral things occur.
  • Of course one could simply hold an opposing view, in which case you will

    disagree with mr. fry

    which is totally ok
  • naney said:

    Like there are ways to work around it intellectually speaking, but there's no way I can see to get around his viewpoint that one should not worship an entity who creates a world in which such heinously immoral things occur.

     If we allow that there is an omnipotent (or at least significantly more powerful than anything we can conceive of; I'm kinda iffy on omnipotence as a concept) being, why can't we allow that what is bad in our world may seem small with a change in perspective?

    Like, what if there are universes that a God could have created that are a million times worse and less fair than ours? Or what if the possibility of an eternal afterlife renders pretty much all the proceedings of one's mortal life not necessarily moot, but small enough so that any suffering they caused is too distant to matter?
  • Kexruct said:

    naney said:

    Like there are ways to work around it intellectually speaking, but there's no way I can see to get around his viewpoint that one should not worship an entity who creates a world in which such heinously immoral things occur.

     If we allow that there is an omnipotent (or at least significantly more powerful than anything we can conceive of; I'm kinda iffy on omnipotence as a concept) being, why can't we allow that what is bad in our world may seem small with a change in perspective?

    Like, what if there are universes that a God could have created that are a million times worse and less fair than ours? Or what if the possibility of an eternal afterlife renders pretty much all the proceedings of one's mortal life not necessarily moot, but small enough so that any suffering they caused is too distant to matter?
    we can allow it

    mr fry simply doesn't think that an entity who allows those things is one he is comfortable worshiping, and he does not understand why others would be
  • i.e. a god to whom such things seems small is either too cruel or too distant for mr fry to deem worthy of his time or respect
  • Well, because of those possibilities I brought up.
  • so either way any god who created this world, regardless of his traits, would fall short of his criteria for being worthy of worship.
  • edited 2015-02-09 04:56:11

    Kexruct said:

    Well, because of those possibilities I brought up.

    which are possibilities he simply doesn't find sufficient
  • Which is what bothers me. Because that theological perspective is intrinsically tied to a belief that the mortal life is transient. 
  • Or, well, not necessarily that, so much as that is a belief that is encompassed by the set of beliefs and is significant enough that it needs to be taken into account. It's certainly the argument I would use against what Fry said.

    And I don't particularly care for the tacit statement that Christianity is linked to a Panglossesque belief that everything is fair and just simply for existing.
  • When did anyone say that?
  • It was the implication I read into what Fry said, not anyone here.
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