You only have to deal with bugs in one protocol, for one thing,
no, you have to deal with bugs in the protocol as operates with only a keyboard connected and also in the protocol as operates with a mouse connected to the keyboard, because those are going to be pretty different operation modes. plus there's the keyboard/mouse protocol.
also it means you can't use a mouse without a keyboard, so there's a point of failure. and you can't have some other peripheral that looks like a keyboard to the computer (like i dunno, braille input or a chorded keyboard) without having to worry about the mouse too.
it's just not the engineering decision i would make. of course it's a fairly small one in the scheme of things, and apple have obviously been doing it this way for years quite successfully. i just wanted to say it is slightly weird
See, the flaw there is twofold. Firstly, why would you want a mouse without a keyboard? I get the braille/chordal keyboard issue, but couldn't you configure the protocol to accept the mouse as just another extension of a given model of keyboard? I'm not sure how to explain what I mean, or at least explain it in a way that doesn't sound like an implicit coding nightmare or whatever, but seriously, there has to be a way to have it set up to do that.
Secondly, it sort of ignores the advent of the USB, which covers that whole problem.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
You'd be surprised at how much of engineering involves ignoring the parts of reality that get in the way of accomplishing what you want.
from what i can tell from the wikipedia article the basic idea behind the daisy chaining was that it was cheaper and only required one port on the computer. which is reasonably sensible.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I swear they're doing this shit just to fuck with me now
You'd be surprised at how much of engineering involves ignoring the parts of reality that get in the way of accomplishing what you want.
That's fine.
It's when it involves ignoring reality in a way that makes things more complicated and stupid and frustrating than they should be or need to be that I get irritable.
Also, as an aside, I will freely admit that part of my disdain for Windows (which has softened considerably) is purely aesthetic. The window layouts and colour palettes and general arrangements are just ugly and cluttered so much of the time.
from what i can tell from the wikipedia article the basic idea behind the daisy chaining was that it was cheaper and only required one port on the computer. which is reasonably sensible.
Which, again, makes more sense to me. It's cheap and convenient.
See, the flaw there is twofold. Firstly, why would you want a mouse without a keyboard?
i have no idea, but somebody will inevitably want to do it and complain when they can't. such is design.
I get the braille/chordal keyboard issue, but couldn't you configure the protocol to accept the mouse as just another extension of a given model of keyboard? I'm not sure how to explain what I mean, or at least explain it in a way that doesn't sound like an implicit coding nightmare or whatever, but seriously, there has to be a way to have it set up to do that.
keyboards and mice are pretty different things so having a mouse as an extension to a keyboard would be kind of messy. like, you're tying the mouse and keyboard protocols together that way, so any change to either means you have to change the other.
apple's solution (this ADB business) was to have a protocol that let you multiplex different types of devices (including other things like joysticks) fairly easily and independently. so the keyboard doesn't need to know about mice, it just needs to know how to mux ADB signals from anything with its own ADB signals. basically exactly what the sensible thing to do over a serial connection is.
Secondly, it sort of ignores the advent of the USB, which covers that whole problem.
well, with the advent of USB I figure any computer is going to have several USB ports for lots of hardware and sticks and such, so I'd just stick with the parallel
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
hey i remember this thing. i think i drew stuff in kid pix with one.
Released with the iMac in 1998 and included with all successive desktop Macs for the next two years, the round "Hockey puck" USB mouse is widely considered one of Apple's worst mistakes.[15] Marking the switch from ADB, the colorful translucent mouse was a radical departure from its predecessors, down to a ball whose two-tone surface fluttered past the user's eyes as it spun under the mouse's translucent housing.
I think whoever wrote this wikipedia article needs an editor
For what it's worth, the "mouse plugs into keyboard" thing actually predates USB by several years; with Apple stuff, at least, it premiered with the Apple IIgs and ADB in 1986. I think some of Sun's gear could do it, too, though it wasn't electrically the same (Suns used a Z8530 dual serial port for the mouse and keyboard).
MY BOSS: Hey kid it's time to make a new computer or whatever. Figure out how the keyboard and mouse are gonna work.
ME, IN THE 80s, WORKING FOR APPLE AND SPORTING A TRAGIC HAIRCUT: ok
[time passes]
ME: ok here's the design
MY BOSS: How the fuck do you read your own handwriting?
ME: ok uh i'll just explain. the computer has a port on it for the keyboard and a port on it for the mouse. we establish a standard for mice and a standard for keyboards but it shouldn't be a big deal since this is apple and we're making all the peripherals ourselves.
MY BOSS: You're fucking stupid. What if someone wants to plug some other peripheral in? What about joysticks, we need to get with the demographic of crazy assholes playing Halo! What about braille you fucking ableist?
ME: ok gimme five minutes
ME: ok so we have a bunch of these "IceWire" ports on the computer. mice and keyboards and ableism all use these same ports electrically and all. we have some software (drivers) on the computer that figures out what's plugged in where and does the right shit.
MY BOSS: Don't curse. But okay, that's fine, I'll get a mockup for the higher-ups.
[time passes]
MY BOSS: The higher-ups say having all these ports is a waste if most people are only going to plug in two things. Also, the UX people want longer wires for the mouse so they can wiggle more, but also shorter wires so they don't tangle. I don't know what their deal is.
ME: uh
ME: well i guess i could rig it up so you connect all the shit to each other and then into one port on the machine
six months later, steve wozniak kicks me in the nuts for my haircut
The one-button mouse has always been a baffling feature of Macs for me—you really expect me to hit the Control key that much?—but I prefer to use a trackball anyway, and those always have two buttons, so I do not care.
discussion point: The Interpretation of Dreams is, in fact, a gothic novel
They did not have beetles in the part of Austria Wittgenstein grew up in, but every time he tried to ask what one was, people thought he was making a deep philosophical point and he was afraid to correct them.
there's a certain charm to seemingly arbitrary bosses appearing in a final dungeon.
especially when the boss DOESN'T fit the theme of the dungeon. if done right, it may signal that there's more meaning to the boss than is readily apparent.
what meaning there is is left to the player to decide/discern.
More TV stuff that gives me the willies even though it probably shouldn't: Shows with soft, downbeat ending credits themes, especially if they run stills of the show over the credits. It always, always, always meant a jump scare (usually in the form of the 1975 Universal logo, but I've heard that the 1978 Lorimar logo and a few others scared people too) was coming. :O
I blame The Incredible Hulk, which was scary enough for little me from the premise alone. Cheers was another one. Life Goes On should have been an example, but wasn't because Warner Bros wasn't using a logo sounder at the time.
Also, there was a short-lived drama in the 1980s, Flamingo Road, whose theme song pops into my head sometimes and won't leave. It was produced by Lorimar, but the theme song sounds so much like something from a 1950s Revue drama that sometimes I tack on the "filmstrips" logo in my head.
Comments
wow this collab is incredible 10/10
from what i can tell from the wikipedia article the basic idea behind the daisy chaining was that it was cheaper and only required one port on the computer. which is reasonably sensible.
So what I'm saying is that you're a BIG NERD
apple's solution (this ADB business) was to have a protocol that let you multiplex different types of devices (including other things like joysticks) fairly easily and independently. so the keyboard doesn't need to know about mice, it just needs to know how to mux ADB signals from anything with its own ADB signals. basically exactly what the sensible thing to do over a serial connection is.
well, with the advent of USB I figure any computer is going to have several USB ports for lots of hardware and sticks and such, so I'd just stick with the parallel
pinouts are great
hey i remember this thing. i think i drew stuff in kid pix with one. I think whoever wrote this wikipedia article needs an editor
look at this charming jacket!
MY BOSS: Hey kid it's time to make a new computer or whatever. Figure out how the keyboard and mouse are gonna work.
ME, IN THE 80s, WORKING FOR APPLE AND SPORTING A TRAGIC HAIRCUT: ok
[time passes]
ME: ok here's the design
MY BOSS: How the fuck do you read your own handwriting?
ME: ok uh i'll just explain. the computer has a port on it for the keyboard and a port on it for the mouse. we establish a standard for mice and a standard for keyboards but it shouldn't be a big deal since this is apple and we're making all the peripherals ourselves.
MY BOSS: You're fucking stupid. What if someone wants to plug some other peripheral in? What about joysticks, we need to get with the demographic of crazy assholes playing Halo! What about braille you fucking ableist?
ME: ok gimme five minutes
ME: ok so we have a bunch of these "IceWire" ports on the computer. mice and keyboards and ableism all use these same ports electrically and all. we have some software (drivers) on the computer that figures out what's plugged in where and does the right shit.
MY BOSS: Don't curse. But okay, that's fine, I'll get a mockup for the higher-ups.
[time passes]
MY BOSS: The higher-ups say having all these ports is a waste if most people are only going to plug in two things. Also, the UX people want longer wires for the mouse so they can wiggle more, but also shorter wires so they don't tangle. I don't know what their deal is.
ME: uh
ME: well i guess i could rig it up so you connect all the shit to each other and then into one port on the machine
six months later, steve wozniak kicks me in the nuts for my haircut
:(
The only thing they're lacking is a right mouse button. Other than that, I'd like to use them.
the guitar solo, in particular, in this, is sublime.
if anyone really needed an explanation of why i watch anime slowly
i watched madomagi last last friday, about ten days ago
it's still on my mind; i'm not done thinking about it
especially when the boss DOESN'T fit the theme of the dungeon. if done right, it may signal that there's more meaning to the boss than is readily apparent.
what meaning there is is left to the player to decide/discern.
i like it when that happens.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
archive.moe/tv/thread/48970137/
Essential Banecore