"Sorry, permission denied".

Astor

I've been getting this when I try to log in.

I am Hlrest, formerly known as Chagen. Something strange has been happening. Anytime I try to log into my account, it says "Sorry, permission denied". I've never seen this message before.

I couldn't have been banned, because that kind of thing should have shown up on my account. I'm utterly confused as to what is going on.

Also, when making this account, the forum actually said "You don't have permission to do that". But then I was signed in for some odd reason. I'm not signing out, in case I can't sign back in again.

So....what happened here?

Obā-san

I dunno.



Also, Long time no see.

Viani

Oh hi Ban evasion.

Salix Babylonika

Dude, you're still around? :|

In any case, your IP probably overlapped with a banned person. Or you got banned yourself, I dunno.

Obā-san

Hey, be nice.


And I don't think he's done anything ban-worthy here, but I haven't been around long....

Vriska

Check the Activity page, guys.

Ace Rimmer

He hasn't been banned

Obā-san

OIC.



Well, I'm not sure if preemptive banning is a good idea....



....Even if he has quite a track record, this just doesn't sit well with me.

Viani

Anonus did in fact ban him.

My opinion on his banned is reinforced.

Salix Babylonika

Hey, be nice.

Wasn't trying to be mean, just saying.

edit: Ah, I see.

Ace Rimmer

I have issues with banning people who haven't done anything wrong despite Chagens shitty rep and what he did in the past.

I'm also aware that Chagen won't change but still its not right

Obā-san

Nevermind. What Whale said.

Viani

If Anonus feels that Chagen may be a threat to the sanctity of this place then I support him and Central-sama's decisions. The ethics of pre-emptive bans matter not to me.

Salix Babylonika

I don't have much of an opinion one way or the other, honestly.

Ace Rimmer

They might not matter to you but it sets a worry precedent and the ethics matter to me.

Obā-san

This leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Viani

Anonus and Central are some of the light-hearted people I know in this region of the internet and I doubt the pre-emptive ban of somebody with a reputation to prove that they are a problem, would set a precedent or standard for them. They did let tnu in because this place didn't have any issues that would inspire him to instantly devolve, since the majority of this place was just placid lifetalk and wonderposting, and unfortunately it didn't work out. AnontralAve are avoiding any possible problems with Chagen.

Forzare

If you'd ever interacted with Chagen on TVT or IJBM2, you'd see that preemptive banning is for the best.

Bunny

I'm siding with Anonus on this issue. I think he has the right idea.

Ace Rimmer

You still don't ban anyone who hasn't done anything wrong here because what they have done elsewhere.

Forzare

It's been ongoing forever.  Chagen has never shown any willingness to change, and where he goes, shitstorms are utterly inevitable.

It's not like we're banning someone who started some shit once or twice a few months ago.  This is a constant thing.

Obā-san

Well, tnu could make anything into a politics thread, which pretty much makes him anathema to this forum.

Ace Rimmer

@Forzare: Has he created a shitstorm here?

Beholder

Pre-emptive banning. Disturbing.

Viani

I believe pre-emptive banning somebody based on other forum behavior (including the fact that TVT, IJBM2 and HH are in the same areas respectively, and while they be separate sites the interactions shared across site are pretty appliable to all three) is perfectly fine, and that Anonus is entitled to do protect this site from future drama. It's unknown what the chances are of Chagen possibly causing problems here if he remains unbanned, but if he is banned, the chances are pretty much 0% since he wouldn't be allowed to post.

Obā-san

Well, Anonus is entitled to do as he pleases...


...I'll come back when I can sort this out in my head.

Beholder

(shrugs) I suppose I'd better not start arguing about that. It's useless anyway

Ace Rimmer

I have no problem with banning Chagen when he does create a shitstorm btw. I'm not very happy that the mods here engage in pre-emptive banning and banning of people who haven't done anything wrong here.

Viani

I am happy the mods take extra steps to assure shitstorms don't happen at all. I had a horrible feeling when tnu1138 came on but I never addressed it because I was more interested in talking about Lady Gaga with vM, and then he began to do the "tnu thing".

PlutoniumFist

We've done one preemptive banning. Tnu had multiple warnings and had caused problems, as I'm sure everyone saw. The only other bans have been one troll and some spambots.

Whale and Naney, I fully understand why you're uncomfortable with this, but it was something of a special case.

Ace Rimmer

I'm not because its a sign of poor moderation in my opinion

Obā-san

tnu engaged in worse behaviours than Chaggen ever had, including stalking Forum members on Steam and threatening to kill himself on multiple occasions. Priority error much?



Clarification: He stalked them on Steam and threatened to kill himself on Steam and they had to talk him out of it.

Forzare

And he got banned too.

Viani

I mean, if they pre-emptively banned somebody who DIDN'T cause shitstorms and arguments and leave a unwarrantedly bad taste in many people's mouths, I would be kind of concerned.

Chagen, no. I will agree with this unless some sane agreeable argument or something I'm unaware of is brought up that would change my mind.

Imipolex G

-waits for this to blow over-

Ace Rimmer

But Tnu got banned after he commited something that was bannable.

Bunny

...I don't know. I think it's the right move.

I don't think that Chagen's slate should be wiped clean just because we're a different forum.

Ace Rimmer

I'm sorry but I feel it should have been.

Viani

He can always join Beyond The Lampshade.

Forzare

I think that in most cases, the slate should be wiped clean when you join a new forum. But some people have proven themselves time and time again that they are terrible people who contribute nothing but shitstorms to every community they frequent, and in those cases, that should be taken into account.

Ace Rimmer

Why should they be?

Salix Babylonika

It would be a different matter if Heapers' Hangout existed in a vacuum, distinct from both TVTropes itself and the other TVT spinoffs, but it doesn't, at least not to the extent that I think we can safely ignore that kind of thing. 

Viani

That's how it was when I introduced him to IJBM2 and made him aware of the site upon his possible permaban on TVT, and he said he was going to start over there and change his ways...but he didn't.

He said he changed, but actually didn't, and due to the budding moderators there unsure whether to ban him away for the problems he caused or giving him chances when he said he WOULD change, it was an extremely agonizing timeline for most of us on IJBM2, and for others, on TVT as well when the original IJBM still existed. He's been causing problems for quite a long time, and in the end, he's the same person except with a growing and expanding arsenal of different things to get angry, defensive or over-emotional about.

Give them an inch, take a mile, you know the drill.

Ace Rimmer

Yes yes I know the drill, I just have issues when someone is no longer innocent till proven guility

Forzare

Except he's been proven guilty over and over again.

Viani

That's what the mods at IJBM2 thought too, because we were in a state of "What the fuck is wrong with TVT mods, we shouldn't be like them" and gave Chagen a chance. Once they realized that was a horrible decision, it was very difficult to try to get rid of him without breaking their own standards and practices and just banning him solely for the fact that he made the environment very unfriendly and catastrophic depending on what mood he was in and who did/didn't agree with him. He was a black hole of drama that just seemed to leave no topic sane even when the mods asked him to stop. The moment he became an active poster was the moment that things began to go downhill and very few people enjoyed the site anymore.

Ace Rimmer

As I said before, ban him when he starts being Chagen. But I want to know what crimes he has done here and now.

Viani

As I said before, keep him banned so the problems never have to start. It's best not to fall into the "give him a chance, he won't cause any problems" trap a second time.

Ace Rimmer

As I said before, keep him banned so the problems never have to start.

 

Thats a poor reason to ban someone.

Obā-san

Ban everyone, then you'll never have any problems with drama.

Viani

Poor...not really. It's a very good reason to ban somebody. If you have a past reference of behavior to go by, and control over who is allowed to post on a site or not, then you can feel free to ban said person if you know they have a habit of being a problem. Anonus, Central, me and a few other dual-posters from IJBM and TVT are well aware what could possibly happen and unfold. Chagen has proved many times that he is a problem causer, enough to merit the justification behind Anonus' decision. There is no need to play the waiting game with him for a 3rd time.

Ban everyone, then you'll never have any problems with drama.

Send Anonus a pm and we will see how that goes.