Discussion of TV Tropes

millercross

@CA: You were once upon a time when you were just a shitposter, but then you started to become self aware and started respecting other people rather than doing your whole thing where they could be bothered. In fact, you even practically made an environment for it rather than just bothering other people, which I find kinda neat

Juan: Nah, sorry, I have a new boyfriend. Isn't that right [insert name here]?

no you don't. --drags vM by the tie--

Anonus

Sometimes I worry I have too many flaws that I don't fix and as such am not a good influence. Which is silly, as people like me.

Manly McMacho

Silly, eerbody knows you can't drag someone by a bow-tie.

Obā-san

...Jammies.

millercross

Silly, eerbody knows you can't drag someone by a bow-tie.

bitch

are you nuts

Manly McMacho

I ain't no female dog but I am nuts

Beholder

I am not a good influence because I'd rather "enable" the sort of "problems" TVT is trying to "fix"

Anonus

...can we try not to keep up the shitposting, please?

Manly McMacho

Sowwy. :<

Juan, cut that shit out.

Princess Alice

Reminder: Threads in "Talk" are meant to be somewhat serious and not shitposty.

Wow, double ninja'd there.

Obā-san

It's like you two have a hivemind or something.

millercross

Ah, gotcha. 

Anyway, all I'll say on the matter is that I prefer a place that remains neutral towards opinions as long as it's willing to allow people to attack said opinions rather than just coddling and protecting them because they have an special opinion and all that jazz.

Manly McMacho

^

Anonus

I've never been much of a debater, which makes me worry that I am not intelligent/well-informed.

I like places to just relax and blabber about my interests/whatever else is on my mind, and Yack Fest seems to be getting steadily more boring to me. Trash Heap aside, and even that I don't enjoy like I used to.

Princess Alice

@AU: Same here, on both counts.

I always feel awkward when I have something I want to talk about that's not related to my less common interests and I can't really find anywhere to talk about it.

Beholder

Too much coddling is exactly what I don't like, and right now it's supersensitive people who are being coddled. As long as one can say whatever they want to say without resorting to personal attack (or vulgarity, but that is just my preference a few people seem to share) , it should be fine - for all "sides" of the given argument.

millercross

Oh, I like a forum that just allows me to talk shit about stuff I'm interested in. It's just that TvT is also interested in discussing things. Which is why it bothers me that it enables and encourages such low quality of discussions.

Too much coddling is exactly what I don't like, and right now it's supersensitive people who are being coddled

It's always been that way and pretending otherwise is ridiculous. Also, your argument doesn't hold when just two/days ago, someone managed to make genocidal claims (Supposedly in jest, but we all know it's bullshit) and they pretty much got away with a slap in the wrist.

Beholder

From what I've seen, the quality of discussion is (or, rather, was) relatively high, at least compared to other sites. If you know of general discussion forums with a higher quality, please point me to them - I mean it.

Anonus

What I know is that TVT, or at least OTC, tends to harbor a lot of really rather appalling opinions (usually some variety of bigotry or extremism) that tend to rile people. Maybe they just get cherry-picked, or they really are that common.

Beholder

(sigh) See what I mean? For you, it is the problem. For me, it is the "solution" of this "problem" that is the problem.

And I find it highly ironic that the site that was known for dislike of Moral Guardians now decides to play one themselves.

Ace Rimmer

They are really that common since I don't want to sound like a xenophobe, I wont tell you which nationality all the problem posters are.

millercross

From what I've seen, the quality of discussion is (or, rather, was) relatively high, at least compared to other sites. If you know of general discussion forums with a higher quality, please point me to them - I mean it. 

Aside from pointing out that appeal to worse is a rather lousy argument, all I can say is that I can't exactly tell you where in the internet I've had great discussions. But I've definetly noticed that the only discussions I've enjoyed were via PM or on IJBM2

They are really that common since I don't want to sound like a xenophobe, I wont tell you which nationality all the problem posters are.

You still sound like a xenophobe as you're implying that their nationality is somehow the cause of they being a problem poster.

Beholder

Well, I've used to have great discussion in the old IJBM - things that really changed some of my opinions and lead to a lot of Character Development. The same in OTC, although rarer and rarer as time goes by. And I don't think it would be possible in the "new and improved" OTC

millercross

You do realize the "new and improved" OTC is as much of a real thing as Santa Claus is, right?

Misery

What Juan said.

Beholder

Hm? I'm not sure what you mean

Manly McMacho

What draco said.

Anonus

^^Imaginary.

Beholder

Imaginary in what sense?

Manly McMacho

Imaginary in the sense that it being "new and improved" is unrealistic and unattainable.

Ace Rimmer

The problem won't go away until people realise that there is such a thing as a shitty opinion.

Manly McMacho

Shitty is kind of an understatement. Like, if I didn't like an album because my enemy liked it, that would be shitty. Advocating genocide is much worse.

Beholder

The fact that it is unattainable does not mean that people do not think that it is ought to be attained. It's the newfound perception of "normative" that bothers me. That it's realisation might be a failure is of no consequence

Manly McMacho

No one said "improved" meant "normative", or at least that's not what I was trying to imply. I'm Switzerland, I was just stating what the others meant (or what I believe they meant, please correct me if I'm wrong guys).

millercross

The fact that it is unattainable does not mean that people do not think that it is ought to be attained. It's the newfound perception of "normative" that bothers me. That it's realisation might be a failure is of no consequence 

You assume that just because a vocal part of the userbase wants it, the whole userbase wants it. 

I mean, it's what I desire, but it won't happen, in my honest opinion.

Anonus

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if OTC were to be outright axed, though if that were to happen it would probably not be for a while. Eddie wasted no time axing IJBM (he was pretty much inherently not fond of it, because he doesn't like complaining) yet he wants to salvage OTC. If he did want to salvage IJBM, he wasn't very overt about it. He seemed more like a "get the hint" sort of guy, which wasn't the best course of action. Perhaps he's learned from this.

Ace Rimmer

Hes got to save it because if he doesn't, people will spam the YF with serious topics and their messages of hate and intolerance.

Princess Alice

I think part of the difference is that with IJBM he could--and did--shrug it off as "the premise is the problem", whereas OTC has no premise and is essentially just a general discussion subforum.

Beholder

You assume that just because a vocal part of the userbase wants it, the whole userbase wants it.

That's the impression I've got, yes. That this is what the userbase (and also FE) wants. Some of the mods tried to keep being fair and not give in to pandering to majority, but now they've finally gave in as per official policy. (sigh) But you've heard all I have to say about this already.

Heh, really, the continued homogenization and "normalisation" of this site makes me lose faith in humanity, and in some other things. It won't be long till I'll come to believe in... in what I'd really prefer not to.

Anonus

It does have a premise, "no derails".

I've heard that worry get brought up a lot, Whale, but I was never sure how much of a chance that stood of happening. But apparently OTC got worse right after IJBM was axed. And I think YF being affected by OTC's hypothetical shutdown would be a very dramatic change.

Princess Alice

"No derails" isn't really a premise, though. It's just a rule, albeit one specific to that particular subforum.

Justice4243

Just read/skimmed the thread and I must say this regarding the first couple pages.

I hope I have some sort of reputation for being even-tempered and laid back so you'll take me very seriously when I say:

Please keep your grievances with specific tropers or members of this forum to yourself or work them out in PMs.

AU specifically mentioned this thread was NOT a place to air those issues and we BARELY got onto the second page before it came up.

This thread is to discuss the recent issues with TVT, NOT so people can vent about other specific people. That kind of talk has no place here or this fora. 

If you can't bring yourself to talk to the person specifically, don't bring it up at all.

Manly McMacho

In case I'm guilty of that, I apologize but everything I've said, I wouldn't mind saying to [user]'s (virtual) face.

Anonus

I worry I may have run afoul of this, even though I tried to avoid naming names. In which case I'm sorry.

Princess Alice

And I'd like to apologize for my part in that.

Firebert

We can add Tendo to the list of departing tropers D=

Obā-san

But then who will take over my position as chief fag? D:

Manly McMacho

MEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Wait no that's not a thing that can happen.

...

Alex?

Obā-san

No.... (*Sigh*)


I think I've done a lot of good in the LGBT and have helped quite a few people in coming out.

millercross

That's the impression I've got, yes. That this is what the userbase (and also FE) wants. Some of the mods tried to keep being fair and not give in to pandering to majority, but now they've finally gave in as per official policy. (sigh) But you've heard all I have to say about this already. 

It's in the rules, but it's not enforced. And well, to be quite honest, I still maintain there's nothing wrong with going after a post that suggests that women deserved to be raped, and that maybe, we should kill all of those stinky black people, as we, the oppressed white man, does not deserve to share a world and be oppresed by both black people and women, or god forbid, black women.