i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Gurren Lagann took stereotypes and put them to some some absurd limit where everything was awesome to the point where one could change the outcome of battles through sheer force of will and screaming, Pacific Rim just gave us a lot of stereotypes and played it safe with those stereotypes.
I suppose I can understand not finding the pacing off if one actually enjoyed watching the characters presented with. But when the main dude has "a tragic past" that can only be over come by a a Rambo II helicopter gambit, one doesn't hold a lot of hope for what's to come.
The Mathematician was particularly bad. As Mr. Darcy mentioned, he was comically British, to the point where he more resembles someone out of an old Sherlock Holmes rendition than an actual person.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to live in a world where me taking umbrage with the fact that a movie insulting my intelligence multiple times is "just nitpicking".
The characters aren't stereotypes. Not the main ones, at least. Even if you argue that they are, they still have compelling arcs, and that's what's important. Side characters like the mathematician can get away with being more stereotypical because one, they're side characters, and two, Pacific Rim is playing tribute to this kind of thing, after all.
And this film decidedly isn't playing it safe. Playing it safe would be if it were a sequel or reboot or adaptation, or if it had a romantic subplot, or if the main team was two males, one of whom was a cynical old timer who learns to loosen up and the other is a loose cannon who ends up being right about everything, or if the biologist was an overambitious genetic engineer who ends up betraying the good guys because he loves the kaiju too much.
And Raleigh joining the Jaeger program again is hardly poorly handled. He doesn't have an extremely tragic backstory- he still succeeded in killing the kaiju but the kind of mental trauma caused by being mentally linked with your brother as he dies is both a good reason for him to retire but not so good that it makes it unrealistic for him to join again, and besides, they didn't spend the entire first act trying to convince him to join again, it was all done in about fifteen minutes.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to live in a world where me taking umbrage with the fact that a movie insulting my intelligence multiple times is "just nitpicking".
Alien biology not making sense and electricity not being scientifically accurate isn't insulting your intelligence. I mean, if you're going to criticize that, how were you even able to accept the basic premise? I'm not saying these aren't technically flaws, but they hardly negatively affect the movie in any meaningful way.
Watch The Dark Knight again sometime, and marvel at how little the plot makes sense. But you know what? It's still a great movie.
Think about it like this. The biggest problem with The Dark Knight Rises isn't that it doesn't make sense that simply fixing autopilot allowed Bruce Wayne to escape a nuke, it's that the movie's idealogy is confused. It doesn't effectively convey its message. A small plot hole doesn't change the ability to convey a message.
Oh! Oh! I have another great example. The Giver. The Giver is a book with plot holes you could drive a truck through, but it's still rightfully considered a classic.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
The characters aren't stereotypes. Not the main ones, at least.
Um yes, yes they are. I'm not sure if you just haven't seen enough movies to see that, but insisting they are not stereotypes doesn't somehow make them not.
Even if you argue that they are, they still have compelling arcs, and that's what's important.
I said they don't. I had zero interest in what happened to pretty much every one I was watching, except Ron Perlman's character.
Side characters like the mathematician can get away with being more stereotypical because one, they're side characters, and two, Pacific Rim is playing tribute to this kind of thing, after all.
Being side characters and paying tribute to things doesn't give one license to flaunt shitty writing
And this film decidedly isn't playing it safe. Playing it safe would be if it were a sequel or reboot or adaptation, or if it had a romantic subplot, or if the main team was two males, one of whom was a cynical old timer who learns to loosen up and the other is a loose cannon who ends up being right about everything, or if the biologist was an overambitious genetic engineer who ends up betraying the good guys because he loves the kaiju too much.
"It could have been worse" isn't really a counter-argument.
And Raleigh joining the Jaeger program again is hardly poorly handled. He doesn't have an extremely tragic backstory- he still succeeded in killing the kaiju but the kind of mental trauma caused by being mentally linked with your brother as he dies is both a good reason for him to retire but not so good that it makes it unrealistic for him to join again, and besides, they didn't spend the entire first act trying to convince him to join again, it was all done in about fifteen minutes.
I think you're missed key element here. It's not that it was or wasn't well explained, it's that they're rehashing over-used tropes from the 80s here and not really giving us anything new but the packaging.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to live in a world where me taking umbrage with the fact that a movie insulting my intelligence multiple times is "just nitpicking".
Alien biology not making sense and electricity not being scientifically accurate isn't insulting your intelligence. I mean, if you're going to criticize that, how were you even able to accept the basic premise? I'm not saying these aren't technically flaws, but they hardly negatively affect the movie in any meaningful way.
There's a pretty big difference in presenting new, science-fantasy elements and expecting the audience to buy into then mangling established science for the sake of plot convince (which sort of does fall under the "convoluted" heading).
Think about it like this. The biggest problem with The Dark Knight Rises isn't that it doesn't make sense that simply fixing autopilot allowed Bruce Wayne to escape a nuke, it's that the movie's idealogy is confused. It doesn't effectively convey its message. A small plot hole doesn't change the ability to convey a message.
Oh! Oh! I have another great example. The Giver. The Giver is a book with plot holes you could drive a truck through, but it's still rightfully considered a classic.
Same thing, you're picking much better, established works that have some minor flaws and and somehow expecting them to serve as examples of how this is still good despite it's glaring flaws.
I can appreciate that you think the movies is much better than I think it is, but are you seriously trying to sell me on the idea that it's comparable to anything you've listed above?
All the works I listed have much greater flaws than weird alien biology or scientifically inaccurate electricity.
And retired hero who decides to fight again isn't an overused trope so much as a very well established plot device.
And I stand by what I said about the characters not being cliche. Sure, a lot of them are superficially similar to anime archetypes, but they're only cliche on the surface level.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
All the works I listed have much greater flaws than weird alien biology or scientifically inaccurate electricity.
Perhaps, but you're singling those things out as if there the only things wrong with the movie.
And retired hero who decides to fight again isn't an overused trope so much as a very well established plot device.
That's just describing the same thing with more positive vocabulary.
And I stand by what I said about the characters not being cliche. Sure, a lot of them are superficially similar to anime archetypes, but they're only cliche on the surface level.
It's more movie stereotypes. It's the hero who is reluctantly dragged into fighting again after swearing he'd never go back into the field again, the plucky-sidekick that just wants to be given a chance, the jerk-ass "top dog", and there's more. I just don't think there's a lot the characters have to them besides the cliches.
IIRC, Raleigh wasn't so much a reluctant hero so much as he was severely traumatized by his brother's death. (Actually, that's another thing I liked about the movie. It addressed the problems with mind linking.) Mako isn't really a cliche plucky sidekick as she also exhibits traits of the overly logical sidekick who learns to loosen up, and the cocky rival actually learns from his mistakes, and does so in a way that seemed fairly unique to me.
Kexruct you need to consider being less offended by people not liking things you like.
I would add the corollary: Please stop telling people that disagree with you that they are objectively wrong, particularly when you are arguing extremely subjective points.
I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
You know what I think is a waste about Pacific Rim? The high-concept premise ("what if giant monsters were real?") is never fully explored. Like, what's it like living in that world?
That's not something you can really deal with if you want to make a movie about the people who fight them. For what it's worth, they do build the world pretty well. Also, they're making a sequel.
I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
That hasn't been confirmed. Also, it's kind of a longshot, given the poor box office performance it's had in the domestic market (as of yesterday, it's grossed $92 million domestically; this combined with a $37 million opening are considered pathetic for a movie with a budget of $190 million), even if it is doing well internationally (it's made $200 million outside the domestic market). Unless Legendary or its new partner Universal are hard up for things to make, don't get too excited.
Also, as Mr. Darcy pointed out, some of the things made no damn sense. The "two brain" thing is a retarded thing for a scientist, especially a biologist to say. And a blast that somehow wipes out digital but not analog equipment is pretty hard to swallow.
It's a machine that syncs the memories of two pilots to properly control via some sort of mental link, how "analog" can it be? And even if it was, EMP blasts don't target things based on analog or digital, they scramble electronics. For this to have worked, the monsters would have had to made some sort of virus blast the works like an EMP blast but not necessarily on all the things they've been "learning" and "preparing" for.
Ssssshhhhh
Science left the room the moment giant monsters started showing up in flagrant violation of the square-cube law.
Man, regular people in kaiju world would be awesome.
Maybe we shouldn't be making movies about the people who fight them. I mean, most people dont make movies about people who fight zombies. It's always the people who are running away in fear.
Yarrun XIX said:Man, regular people in kaiju world would be awesome.
Maybe we shouldn't be making movies about the people who fight them. I mean, most people dont make movies about people who fight zombies. It's always the people who are running away in fear.
I think it's wrong to say that Raleigh was defined by reluctance to fight again, since that entire character arc was wrapped up within the first act and never referenced again.
IIRC, Raleigh wasn't so much a reluctant hero so much as he was severely traumatized by his brother's death. (Actually, that's another thing I liked about the movie. It addressed the problems with mind linking.) Mako isn't really a cliche plucky sidekick as she also exhibits traits of the overly logical sidekick who learns to loosen up, and the cocky rival actually learns from his mistakes, and does so in a way that seemed fairly unique to me.
These are explanations for why they are cliches. Or quibbling over which cliche they are. Even if they're relatively well handled, it doesn't really change that the writers didn't try to think outside the box much here.
Kexruct you need to consider being less offended by people not liking things you like.
I would add the corollary: Please stop telling people that disagree with you that they are objectively wrong, particularly when you are arguing extremely subjective points.
This. I mean, I can certainly accept that your perspective and views are different especially on a movie I don't really feel that strongly on. But we've generated so many posts on this because I feel I'm being told that I'm wrong and I should somehow feel differently about this movie than I do.
Science left the room the moment giant monsters started showing up in flagrant violation of the square-cube law.
As I mentioned to Krexuct, introducing science-fantasy elements isn't quite the same as expecting the audience to also disregard science knowledge that doesn't relate to their sci-fi elements they've presumably already sold us on if we're watching the film.
I'm honestly not sure WHY they decided to keep the line about the second brain, it ended up not having any relevancy to the story.
"It is a matter of grave importance that Fairy tales should be respected.... Whosoever alters them to suit his own opinions, whatever they are, is guilty, to our thinking, of an act of presumption, and appropriates to himself what does not belong to him." -- Charles Dickens
Kexruct: I really don't believe any character in Pacific Rim had a well-written character arc. You might convince me on Mako, as I was distracted by how she was less interesting than Rei. But Raleigh? Stacker Pentecost? As has been pointed out, Raleigh's emotional arc is resolved by the end of the first act. The he has nothing to do but fight in a robot and not become Mako's boyfriend. And Stacker's an emotional nonentity until it's revealed in the third act that he was in the robot that saved Mako.
There's also the acting. Can you seriously argue that there were more than two good actors there? And either Idris Elba was phoning his performance in, or the role was terribly written. It was embarrassing to watch him deliver his St. Crispin's Day speech.
I think the "second brain" thing is because Kaiju are so big that one brain would probably be dedicated to all somatic functions and whatnot (that is, to say, the Kaiju is so big it needs a secondary brain to handle breathing and other biological shit), and the second brain is for actual thought-that is, the hivemind stuff.
Assuming the second brain thing is in reference to the Kaiju.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
It was, but it also served for a line that made you think the movie biologist maybe wasn't all that current on the going ons in his field, it also sort of wasn't important the way the movie panned out anyhow.
Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
Personally, I like all the cliches. I like the over-the-top Britishness, the Kaiju-fanboying, the mad science, Mako as an avenger, Raleigh as the lovesick puppy, the two Australians who can't express their love for each other, the Wei Triplets, the Kaidonovskys, Hannibal Chau, Stacker Pentecost (which is absolutely the best name ever) as the Commanding Presence.
Huge goddamn cliches and I love all of them.
(I don't even remember that line about dinosaurs except in the context of the enemy)
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I'm not sure all of those where cliche, Like the triplets and Hannibal Chau (who was awesome). They weren't enough to sell me on the rest of the movie, however.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
As mentioned, I'm not sure why action films shoot for two hours or more of film, it's kinda unnecessary and often just gives the film more rope to hang itself with.
Honestly... I didn't like it that much. For what was supposed to be Pixar's big Action/Adventure movie, it just ended up feeling very small. There are really only two locales (the castle and the forest), the mother/daughter arc which should've been most of the film is finished within minutes, and there's really only one big action scene, and it's thoroughly underwhelming.
I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
Saw Brave recently.
Honestly... I didn't like it that much. For what was supposed to be Pixar's big Action/Adventure movie, it just ended up feeling very small. There are really only two locales (the castle and the forest), the mother/daughter arc which should've been most of the film is finished within minutes, and there's really only one big action scene, and it's thoroughly underwhelming.
Are you mentally linked with me or something? I was just gonna bring this movie up!
I enjoyed it...I dunno what that says about me, but I did. I appreciated that it felt small...maybe I benefited from avoiding any marketing for it, but what promotional material I have seen feels very misleading (e.g. how the poster and home video cover focuses on Merida to the exclusion of other characters).
Also: Let it be said that I do not get the non-"Jack Frost is hot" appeal of Rise of the Guardians.
I saw Elysium with Buttercup on the day that is now yesterday here. God damn, that was an incredibly pretty movie; I love the way they contrasted the slick world of Elysium with the run-down Los Angeles. As for the story, there were a couple of elements where my brain immediately started making arguments for/against them making sense, and one that was definitely poorly explained; I'm being vague here partially because I don't want to be detailed at 2am, and partially because I don't want to spoil things. Also, the trailer I saw (I think before Pacific Rim) was mostly cut versions of a few of the early scenes, which honestly makes things kinda awkward because you know exactly how the first act is going to play out, but I guess that's a necessary evil of having a trailer.
Comments
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
The characters aren't stereotypes. Not the main ones, at least. Even if you argue that they are, they still have compelling arcs, and that's what's important. Side characters like the mathematician can get away with being more stereotypical because one, they're side characters, and two, Pacific Rim is playing tribute to this kind of thing, after all.
And this film decidedly isn't playing it safe. Playing it safe would be if it were a sequel or reboot or adaptation, or if it had a romantic subplot, or if the main team was two males, one of whom was a cynical old timer who learns to loosen up and the other is a loose cannon who ends up being right about everything, or if the biologist was an overambitious genetic engineer who ends up betraying the good guys because he loves the kaiju too much.
And Raleigh joining the Jaeger program again is hardly poorly handled. He doesn't have an extremely tragic backstory- he still succeeded in killing the kaiju but the kind of mental trauma caused by being mentally linked with your brother as he dies is both a good reason for him to retire but not so good that it makes it unrealistic for him to join again, and besides, they didn't spend the entire first act trying to convince him to join again, it was all done in about fifteen minutes.
Alien biology not making sense and electricity not being scientifically accurate isn't insulting your intelligence. I mean, if you're going to criticize that, how were you even able to accept the basic premise? I'm not saying these aren't technically flaws, but they hardly negatively affect the movie in any meaningful way.
Watch The Dark Knight again sometime, and marvel at how little the plot makes sense. But you know what? It's still a great movie.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I said they don't. I had zero interest in what happened to pretty much every one I was watching, except Ron Perlman's character.
Being side characters and paying tribute to things doesn't give one license to flaunt shitty writing
"It could have been worse" isn't really a counter-argument.
I think you're missed key element here. It's not that it was or wasn't well explained, it's that they're rehashing over-used tropes from the 80s here and not really giving us anything new but the packaging.
All the works I listed have much greater flaws than weird alien biology or scientifically inaccurate electricity.
And retired hero who decides to fight again isn't an overused trope so much as a very well established plot device.
And I stand by what I said about the characters not being cliche. Sure, a lot of them are superficially similar to anime archetypes, but they're only cliche on the surface level.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
That's just describing the same thing with more positive vocabulary.
It's more movie stereotypes. It's the hero who is reluctantly dragged into fighting again after swearing he'd never go back into the field again, the plucky-sidekick that just wants to be given a chance, the jerk-ass "top dog", and there's more. I just don't think there's a lot the characters have to them besides the cliches.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Maybe we shouldn't be making movies about the people who fight them. I mean, most people dont make movies about people who fight zombies. It's always the people who are running away in fear.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Miyazaki films, for example. Lots of crazy logic in tgose films. But it works because you're focusing more on the characters than the plot.
Pacific Rim.did this for you, but not Justice, and you have to accept this.
Maybe we shouldn't be making movies about the people who fight them. I mean, most people dont make movies about people who fight zombies. It's always the people who are running away in fear.
Isn't that again Cloverfield?
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
These are explanations for why they are cliches. Or quibbling over which cliche they are. Even if they're relatively well handled, it doesn't really change that the writers didn't try to think outside the box much here. This. I mean, I can certainly accept that your perspective and views are different especially on a movie I don't really feel that strongly on. But we've generated so many posts on this because I feel I'm being told that I'm wrong and I should somehow feel differently about this movie than I do.
As I mentioned to Krexuct, introducing science-fantasy elements isn't quite the same as expecting the audience to also disregard science knowledge that doesn't relate to their sci-fi elements they've presumably already sold us on if we're watching the film.
Kexruct: I really don't believe any character in Pacific Rim had a well-written character arc. You might convince me on Mako, as I was distracted by how she was less interesting than Rei. But Raleigh? Stacker Pentecost? As has been pointed out, Raleigh's emotional arc is resolved by the end of the first act. The he has nothing to do but fight in a robot and not become Mako's boyfriend. And Stacker's an emotional nonentity until it's revealed in the third act that he was in the robot that saved Mako.
There's also the acting. Can you seriously argue that there were more than two good actors there? And either Idris Elba was phoning his performance in, or the role was terribly written. It was embarrassing to watch him deliver his St. Crispin's Day speech.
Assuming the second brain thing is in reference to the Kaiju.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
This is a good article.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead