So just because the prosecution did a shitty job, it's okay to let a guy who killed a kid armed with nothing but Skittles go free?
When the alternative is witch trials? Hell, yes. Prosecution must prove guilt if punishment is to be rendered. Otherwise, the entire criminal system is a joke, and we might as well just have angry mobs decide the fate of the accused.
Keep in mind that laws about self defense also exist for a reason. If you are actually attacked, you shouldn't be trying to decide between defending yourself or not based on whether or not you'll end up going to jail for defending yourself. No matter how much you believe that this wasn't a legitimate self-defense case, legitimate self defense cases are aplenty. And very frequently, the person who had to defend self with lethal force has very little to prove that they acted in self defense.
When you are attacked, you should know that the law is going to be on your side if you have to defend yourself. And so results like this are a good thing for society overall regardless of how you feel about particular case. If there was strong evidence showing man slaughter or homicide, it'd be another matter. But prosecution failed to show such evidence, and so the verdict had to be "not guilty" if you want to live in a safe, lawful society.
Yes, you read that right. There are people on the EC forums not only defending Zimmerman, but upholding this case as a victory for the US justice system.
But I desperately want to be able to convince someone of something. I'm just floored by the ignorance on display here. I want it to change. And I hate that I can't do anything about it.
From what I've read, the guy's actually right in that what happened was legal.
The problem with the Zimmerman case is kind of like what went wrong with the NSA spying on us. In both cases, something was done that almost everybody agrees was wrong. However, because Zimmerman was acting on the incredibly flawed Stand Your Ground law and the federal government didn't write a law that prevents the NSA from spying on us (and good luck getting a law passed with this congress), there's no legal way to punish those involved. And that is terrible, and it will continue to be terrible.
In short, the ones who are to blame are the Florida legislators who wrote the Stand Your Ground law (and recommended not changing it post-Trayvon), the police officers who initially responded to the crime and decided it was not a crime (which resulted in half-assed evidence collection), and whoever was responsible for stacking the jury with people who would be statistically more likely to side with Zimmerman than Trayvon.
And really, it doesn't matter whether Zimmerman's right and Trayvon did attack him. The fact remains that he intentionally put himself in a situation where his life may be threatened, against the recommendations of a police officer, because of racial profiling. Legal or not, the killing is in no way morally justifiable.
Would I be correct in saying that it's highly unlikely Trayvon actually did attack him? I mean, I saw Zimmerman's account of events, and it seemed pretty obvious he was playing an "Oh no a scary black man attacked me I'm the real victim guys" angle.
From what I've read, the guy's actually right in that what happened was legal.
The problem with the Zimmerman case is kind of like what went wrong with the NSA spying on us. In both cases, something was done that almost everybody agrees was wrong. However, because Zimmerman was acting on the incredibly flawed Stand Your Ground law and the federal government didn't write a law that prevents the NSA from spying on us (and good luck getting a law passed with this congress), there's no legal way to punish those involved. And that is terrible, and it will continue to be terrible.
In short, the ones who are to blame are the Florida legislators who wrote the Stand Your Ground law (and recommended not changing it post-Trayvon), the police officers who initially responded to the crime and decided it was not a crime (which resulted in half-assed evidence collection), and whoever was responsible for stacking the jury with people who would be statistically more likely to side with Zimmerman than Trayvon.
I'm going to use the latter paragraph, paraphrased, in the thread I linked.
Well, the case had a witness claim that Zimmerman was too out-of-shape to hold his own against Trayvon; the ballistics guy claimed that the bullet that killed Trayvon was shot from below, and there's this thing about Zimmerman apparently having injuries from the fight.
Personally, having read up on Martin and Zimmerman, I think the latter's the more likely instigator of the conflict. But you can't convict someone solely because they're terrible people.
The defense didn't really need to rally the jury around the Confederate flag. The way the law works is that all the defense had to do was provide reasonable doubt that Zimmerman initiated the conflict that led to Martin's death. And because of the faulty evidence-gathering, along with a number of other things that went wrong, the prosecution couldn't erase enough doubt.
So, again, what I'm saying is that the Stand Your Ground law is just terrible.
You know that the number of gun purchases in Florida have increased since the law was made? It's encouraging people to solve stressful situations with lethal violence
And lawyers claim that it's a malleable law that's going to be used more and more. Malleable is not a word that should be used on a law that allows murderers to walk free.
And the task force that investigated the law? Two of the members voted in favor of it, and two of them helped draft it.
Honestly, if no one starts a petition demanding that Florida repeals the law by the end of the week, I'm making one.
And for that matter, I wish that more Americans knew how the legal system actually worked, including me. The media depictions of legal matters are sometimes accurate, but the ones that aren't are a bit too popular.
i didnt realise it was recently that the anonymous avenue meeting finally happened!! i hope it went very well
im leaving for The Bigass Europe Train Trip tomorrow so i wont be about for a while after today because ill be busy staring at a waterfall in slovenia. in case anyone needs me for some reason. thx
that someone saw that and just went "correlation does not imply causation." is pretty much just them saying "yup. i love racism. racism is good. i do a racism every day"
Okay, but the sheer volume of cases where a white person was considered justified for killing a black person compared to the other way around is kind of hard to ignore.
In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent.
so the moral of the story is: america bad, florida worst
Okay, but the sheer volume of cases where a white person was considered justified for killing a black person compared to the other way around is kind of hard to ignore.
oh yeah of course its hard to ignore. its pretty fucking awful really
speaking of killing i am watching the Danish TV show The Killing (Fordelbrysen), and it owns, theres two likeable characters in the whole series and one of them almost got beaten to death with an iron bar, and the other one crashed his car into a rail and his dumb stupid wife who is the main detective character keeps ignoring his good advice which will help her catch the killer. instead she keeps arresting this politician because she is dumb. everyone else in the series is also dumb/annoying/bad/corrupt. very realistic.
also SPOILERS olav the civil servant is the killer im only 11 episodes in but I KNOW THIS SHIT
It's interesting to see that the likelihood of a killing being justified go up for all the categories. The part that's racially biased is how much they go up.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
The Zimmerman/Martin thing sure is a mess. :o I read up on it some. u_u Zimmerman is half-hispanic apparently... it seems like no one knows what actually happened because no one testified in court who was actually there, but I think it is beyond question that Zimmerman instigated a confrontation against an innocent, unarmed teenager that led to his death from a gun.
"Stand Your Ground" is worrying; it says that it is okay to kill an attacker even if a) you have the option to retreat, and/or b) the attacker is retreating. Doesn't this law actively encourage solving your problem with violence?
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
The first thing the player does here is suicide because this is one of those demented Raizing-style shmups where the game gets really angry at you the longer you survive and the better you do, so players literally strategically ram into things and die to make the game easier. Technically this game is by Cave but the director is from Raizing after it shut down.
Comments
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
I just used myopia instead of 'self-centered' because of the Moral Myopia trope.
I still have trouble with the word 'codify'.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
The problem with the Zimmerman case is kind of like what went wrong with the NSA spying on us. In both cases, something was done that almost everybody agrees was wrong. However, because Zimmerman was acting on the incredibly flawed Stand Your Ground law and the federal government didn't write a law that prevents the NSA from spying on us (and good luck getting a law passed with this congress), there's no legal way to punish those involved. And that is terrible, and it will continue to be terrible.
In short, the ones who are to blame are the Florida legislators who wrote the Stand Your Ground law (and recommended not changing it post-Trayvon), the police officers who initially responded to the crime and decided it was not a crime (which resulted in half-assed evidence collection), and whoever was responsible for stacking the jury with people who would be statistically more likely to side with Zimmerman than Trayvon.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Personally, having read up on Martin and Zimmerman, I think the latter's the more likely instigator of the conflict. But you can't convict someone solely because they're terrible people.
The defense didn't really need to rally the jury around the Confederate flag. The way the law works is that all the defense had to do was provide reasonable doubt that Zimmerman initiated the conflict that led to Martin's death. And because of the faulty evidence-gathering, along with a number of other things that went wrong, the prosecution couldn't erase enough doubt.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
You know that the number of gun purchases in Florida have increased since the law was made? It's encouraging people to solve stressful situations with lethal violence
And lawyers claim that it's a malleable law that's going to be used more and more. Malleable is not a word that should be used on a law that allows murderers to walk free.
And the task force that investigated the law? Two of the members voted in favor of it, and two of them helped draft it.
It really is the worst law.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
And for that matter, I wish that more Americans knew how the legal system actually worked, including me. The media depictions of legal matters are sometimes accurate, but the ones that aren't are a bit too popular.
The first response was "correlation does not imply causation."
i didnt realise it was recently that the anonymous avenue meeting finally happened!! i hope it went very well
im leaving for The Bigass Europe Train Trip tomorrow so i wont be about for a while after today because ill be busy staring at a waterfall in slovenia. in case anyone needs me for some reason. thx
not sure i understand this graph, the percentage likelihood? how can something be 350% likely? or -100% likely?
im not arguing that florida isnt terrible and bad and so is america and kill all the white people, but still, i dont get your graph
so the moral of the story is: america bad, florida worstah, i get it now
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Man, step up your game, Times.
speaking of killing i am watching the Danish TV show The Killing (Fordelbrysen), and it owns, theres two likeable characters in the whole series and one of them almost got beaten to death with an iron bar, and the other one crashed his car into a rail and his dumb stupid wife who is the main detective character keeps ignoring his good advice which will help her catch the killer. instead she keeps arresting this politician because she is dumb. everyone else in the series is also dumb/annoying/bad/corrupt. very realistic.
also SPOILERS olav the civil servant is the killer im only 11 episodes in but I KNOW THIS SHIT
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
He goes home today
I'm gonna miss him :<
I love you
A lot
A lot
"Stand Your Ground" is worrying; it says that it is okay to kill an attacker even if a) you have the option to retreat, and/or b) the attacker is retreating. Doesn't this law actively encourage solving your problem with violence?