Gathering some Magics

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 19:53:36

Idler: oh, derp.

Juan: marry me. 8)

Justice4243 · 2012-01-20 19:54:34

Underground Sea is the BEST card, but is old enough that it might not be legal whatever format people are playing.

Polluted Delta is very good because it helps reduce the chance you will draw land and you can get your Underground Seas with it.

Idler · 2012-01-20 19:54:41

Watery Grave is good, too.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 19:55:58

SO MANY CARDS

*drowns in cards*

Haven · 2012-01-20 19:56:48

Which is also good at winning a game that gets stalemated if it goes on for too long.

Obā-san · 2012-01-20 19:58:43

Like.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 19:58:48

ooh I like that one.

millercross · 2012-01-20 20:02:33

Creeping Tar Pit is the center of my Ninja deck.

Idler · 2012-01-20 20:03:32

You know, Zendikar block would've been so awesome if they didn't print so many stupidly overpowered cards in it.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-20 20:04:05

You'll want one or two Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth:

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:05:00

Ooh, that's actually quite awesome. Does that mean if I had an Island I could tap it for one black in addition to one blue, or one black INSTEAD of one blue?

Also does that effect apply to Urborg itself, too? Because that would make it a Swamp by default.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-20 20:05:29

^Instead, but it's still VERY useful.

Swapping out one swamp with just Urborg works pretty well, too:

Obā-san · 2012-01-20 20:07:23

I have a quick question: Nonbasic lands are subject to the same per-deck limits as nonland cards, right?

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:07:43

what's the little arrow for? is that the Tap symbol?

/still clueless about some stuff

edit: are there any Blue creatures similar to Skinrender in effect? I imagine not, but i figure it can't hurt to ask.

(I'm sorry I'm being "the clueless noob" here, by the way >_>)

Gelzo · 2012-01-20 20:08:49

Yes.

Justice4243 · 2012-01-20 20:08:57

^^^,^^ Yes

Gelzo · 2012-01-20 20:10:54

Of note, summoning sickness prevents a creature from tapping to pay a cost that has that symbol in it, but you can still tap it to pay costs that don't have the symbol in it.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:13:31

Am I right in assuming that the Urborg Stalker (this ugly fucker)

is a good creature for me to have?

Idler · 2012-01-20 20:18:55

It's pretty outclassed by modern creatures.

Bunny · 2012-01-20 20:19:29

For 4 mana, I'm sure you could do better.

It also means you're taking damage if you have any artifacts or the like.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:19:50

Is there one that's "the same but better"?

Or am I severely overestimating its effect's potency?

Idler · 2012-01-20 20:21:56

Overestimating. It's pretty slow at draining, and if you're against a mono-black deck it might not even work.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:23:29

well I know for a fact that my first opponent (fellow noob daltar) is making a green deck.

Still, I've cut their numbers in my deck down to just one.

Bunny · 2012-01-20 20:28:02

This will help.

Gelzo · 2012-01-20 20:29:38

One damage per turn that the opponent can't block on one card is a very good effect. Just look at Storm Crow.

For just a blue mana and another mana of ANY color, you get to put your opponent on a 21-turn clock with just one card. Not only that, but it has a toughness of two, so your opponent has to waste two cards and four life on Gut Shots if he even wants a chance of killing it, and that only works if you don't have counter-spell support. It doesn't cost anything to untap, and it untaps EVERY turn. It's just a very efficient card and a 4-of staple in any deck with blue.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:29:41

Oh.

Thanks Bunny. :D

By the way, that Underground Sea card Justice posted? I looked it up, still legal in every game format.

Fuckyeah.jpg

^I am not quite that much of a noob.

Obā-san · 2012-01-20 20:32:39

I have a general question: About what can I expect per Mana from a good card? I.E. What's a reasonable amount of Mana to destroy an opponent's creature? What's a good Mana to cast / toughness ratio? Or Mana to cast / deal direct damage to a player ratio?

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:33:48

Naney's question is a good question and I would also like an answer.

Idler · 2012-01-20 20:35:05

The Titan cycle (Frost/Grave/Sun/Inferno/Primeval) are generally regarded as being way over the curve; in other words; better than they have any right to be. Same goes for Wurmcoil Engine.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:37:15

*looks up Grave Titan*

*adds to deck furiously*

Bunny · 2012-01-20 20:37:35

Those are good questions!

I really don't have answers! I just kind of eyeball it!

But, uh, as for direct damage, I'm not sure there's much better than this fellow.

Obā-san · 2012-01-20 20:37:57

(*Looks Up Wurmcoil Engine*)

Ok, that is really cute. :3

And Niiiice.

^That is absurd.

Idler · 2012-01-20 20:38:39

For smaller creatures, Stromkirk Noble is a decent enough standard to judge by. Good but not too good.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:39:16

That seems quite similar to the effect of the Pierce Walker, actually. Other than being able to target a creature, whereas the Pierce Walker can target only players.

Bunny · 2012-01-20 20:39:58

Red has good direct damage. (Duh.)

Although, depending on the deck, Galvanic Blast can be fun too.

Idler · 2012-01-20 20:40:10

Being able to target a creature is really important; you shouldn't usually use a direct damage spell on your opponent unless it'll kill them.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:41:51

Ever?

Granted Pierce Strider is the only of my cards that's good for that, really. But still.

Also you *can* kill a creature by reducing its toughness to zero via counter, right? I assumed such, and if my deck works the way I want it to, I'll be able to do that pretty often, I think.

If not, well, I have a lot of restructuring to do.

Bunny · 2012-01-20 20:42:09

Yeah. It is very, very handy to keep a lightning bolt around for eliminating pesky critters.

I used to not care for Red too much, but I fell in love with it once I tried my G/R Metalcraft deck.

<3

^Absolutely. In fact, it's one of the only ways to kill indestructible creatures.

Idler · 2012-01-20 20:42:49

Yes, you can, and in fact that can even kill indestructible creatures.

In contrast to Stromkirk Noble, Goblin Guide is too good for its cost.

Gelzo · 2012-01-20 20:46:49

Two mana is the standard for instant-speed spot removal. You can do better, though. Plenty cards kill creatures for one mana if you pay an extra cost or allow certain limitations.

It's also important to remember that besides mana, cards themselves are a resource that you spend. A card that does 2 damage per mana isn't great if it's a one mana card, but if it does 6 damage for 3 mana, that's fantastic. There's also diminishing returns, since certain mana costs aren't feasible to pay for unless you're using enough mana acceleration. 20 damage for 10 mana on one card isn't quite as good as 6 damage for 3 mana.

Whether a creature's stats are good is similarly difficult to figure out. Towards the upper end of things, a 2/2 creature for one mana is fantastic, as is a 3/3 for two, and a 5/5 for three. But five mana for just an 8/8 is generally bad. You need to factor in how good its abilities are.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:48:51

^^Excellent.

Okay, tell me if this is, at the very least, a viable deck (I'm not looking for perfection on the first hit, I just need to know if I *can* win with this).

Artifacts

Contagion Clasp x4
Contagion Engine x4

Creatures

Grave Titan x4
Gwylion Hedge-Mage x2 (no, I totally don't have that in my deck just cuz Justice posted a picture of it and I thought to look it up, and it seemed okay, why do you ask?)
Pierce Strider x4
Skinrender x4

Instant

Contagion x2
Doom Blade x4

Land

Creeping Tar Pit x4
Drowned Catacomb x4
Swamp x9
Underground Sea x4
Urborg x1
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth x3

Sorcery

Tezzeret's Gambit x3
Unburial Rites x4

This is probably terrible.

Also you'll note that most of the blue from my black/blue is gone. That wasn't really intentional, just kind of happened.

Obā-san · 2012-01-20 20:49:10

^^Ok, thanks. :3

Bunny · 2012-01-20 20:51:30

....Eh. I'm not too big a fan of Pierce Strider or Gwylion Hedge-Mage.

Also, with those mana costs, you'll be without creatures for a bit. Not the best idea, if you ask me.

And 4 Contagion Engines? A bit excessive...

Idler · 2012-01-20 20:52:08

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is legendary - if you have more than one of it out at once, all of them will die, so you probably don't want to be running it in multiples.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:52:49

Hm.

I'll have to substitute something else, then.

Though after this, because I am about to enter my first....game, I guess. man, that's not as fun as saying "duel".

^wait what

no one told me this D:

Bunny · 2012-01-20 20:55:06

Honestly, you could always pop some infect creatures in there, what with the Proliferate effects.

Like this fellow. He alone has won me a game or two.

And these guys! Aren't they cute?

Gelzo · 2012-01-20 20:55:14

Go for the Throat over Doom Blade could work, depending on what you face. You're better off with at least a mix of the two, I think.

And I don't think proliferate effects are going to be as helpful as you think. You don't have any infect creatures or planeswalkers, even.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-01-20 20:56:58

I don't have all the effects memorized. I didn't know there *was* an infect.

That's a bit more useful than the Gwylion I think.

*edit edit edit*

Idler · 2012-01-20 20:57:11

Globe: That's the legendary rule for you. If two legendary permanents with the same name are out at once, they both go to the graveyard as a state-based effect.

Mixing Infect with non-infect is generally not a good idea.

Bunny · 2012-01-20 20:59:41

But with the amount of proliferate Globey has, he could really benefit from infect creatures!

I may or may not be saying this just because I have a massive hard-on for infect

Gathering some Magics

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