This is just mind-boggling right here. You and just about everyone else here keeps insisting that the comparison between women being sexually objectified in comic books (a male-targed medium) is a completely different beast than the sexual objectification of men in romance novels (a female-targed medium.) You say that women are cast as objects for male gratification in comics and I'm left to suppose that you think this is completely impossible for the same thing to happen to men as objects of gratification for female readers in romance novels. I've posted several images of completely typical examples of the genre and you still shake your head and are all, "nope, don't see it."
No, i'm not saying i don't see it. i'm saying it's not equivalent, and i'm doing my best to explain why. If we're going to talk about mind-boggling, i'm a little surprised myself; obviously you didn't miss the part where i said that sexy people were not in themselves the problem, but perhaps you overlooked the point where i was considering the stories themselves, and not merely the cover images used to sell them?
Yes it is equal. All of it. Objectification is objectification, and this is where the rationalization is kicking into high gear.
All characters are objectified in the sense that they exist to be read about, but it's plainly not true to say that all characters are identical, and by the same token, it's not true to say that they are all equally fetishized, idealized or objectified. Not all fiction exists merely for the gratification of its readers, and not all entertainment derives its value from imparting a sense of ownership or dominance over fictional characters.
Just because most males don't give two shits about the entire subject doesn't make it any less hypocritical for women to scream about female objectification in a male-targeted facet of the entertainment industry whenever a related part of this same industry, which happens to be 10 times more ubiquitous and profitable and targeted to an entirely female demographic, is guilty of the exact same thing.
But no, it's different, you insist.
Well, first off, i never said that all women were entirely happy with romance novels, either. Both romance novels and comic books are mass-marketed commercial products and their contents are heavily dictated by what their publishers believe will sell the most copies.
But secondly, comic books and romance novels are not exactly the same, and the bulk of my last post consisted of detailing specific ways in which they differ. This is apparently 'rationalization'; so i guess you're assuming i just have some groundless desire to attack comic books and have no interest in their actual contents?
I'm having a really hard time trying to understand what you're saying right here. You state that She-Hulk is objectified, this is true. That's all I can tell here. One thing that is missing, unsurprisingly, is mention of the fact that the male in a romance novel fulfills the exact same purpose as She-Hulk here, but for the female audience. Another example of that wonderful double standard at work.
Well, let's start with the obvious, shall we - she's She-Hulk. Rather than a character in her own right, her primary identifying characteristic, the one being used to define her, is that she's like the Incredible Hulk, but female. It's in her name, and it informs much of her character design. So right off the bat, she's already secondary to another character - one who in many respects really isn't all that much like her, actually, but that's how she's being presented and marketed to readers. Furthermore, she's not just the Hulk but female, she's a sexy female, according to the conventions of the genre, which entails not only body shape and skimpy clothing, but also the kinds of poses she's drawn in, which would often be ridiculous on a male character.
It's not really fair to single out She-Hulk here, because she's hardly the worst, and she's arguably a step up from the usual legions of girlfriends-in-distress and bland heroines, but she's certainly typical of the way in which women are portrayed in comic books.
And I'm not trying to be rude, but I find the rest of your argument -- about the culture and history of all this -- to be completely irrelevant and I'll explain why.
Comics are a storytelling medium. Romance novels are a storytelling medium.
One's demographic is predominantly male, the other is almost exclusively female.
In order to cater to their respective demographics, producers of each go so far as to objectify the opposite sex to drive sales. Hence: Power Girl and every romance novel cover, ever.
To argue that one -- especially the smaller one -- is sexist for its objectification of one gender of people while ignoring the other one, which is over 10 times larger and profitable does the exact same thing, is complete hypocrisy.
Now, do I care that men are sexually objectified in such a manner? No, I couldn't give two shits about it if I tried. Do I find shit like Power Girl's physique and that ridiculous costume she's in defensible? Not in the least. Do I have a problem with people raising a stink over a problem and then in the same breath justify and rationalize the exact same problem elsewhere? Yeah, I do.
i am not convinced that you have understood my argument. i'm not arguing that comics are sexist and romance novels aren't - both are pretty sexist, frankly - i'm arguing that they are different, and i've given numerous reasons why the arguments used to condemn the one do not necessarily apply to the other.
Context is important. If you don't look at the context in which a work is produced and consumed, you aren't taking the work on its own terms or the terms of its readers. It is impossible to read a work 'as it is', so if you aren't prepared to consider context, you are reduced to interpreting it through the filter of your own values and preconceptions. This is not conducive to understanding the perspectives of other people.
You've stated repeatedly that you don't mean to be rude. You've also repeatedly accused me of hypocrisy and dismissed my arguments (which again, made specific comparisons and explained how they differed) as empty rationalization, without attempting to understand my perspective here. I'm grateful that you read my post and took the time to respond to it; you needn't mince your words. Tell me what you really think.
I thought the audience was taking them seriously, not the guys who make the money off of the audience?
Well, kind of.
But the audience is encouraged to take them seriously by the way in which the comics style themselves. They present epic storylines with action sequences, moral dilemmas and good vs. evil conflicts. They present themselves as myths for a modern age.
Sometimes fans probably take them more seriously than their creators, but a lot of the time, comic books are going out of their way to be taken seriously. The fans are only responding to the comics the ways the writers intended them to.
I thought the audience was taking them seriously, not the guys who make the money off of the audience?
Well, kind of.
But the audience is encouraged to take them seriously by the way in which the comics style themselves. They present epic storylines with action sequences, moral dilemmas and good vs. evil conflicts. They present themselves as myths for a modern age.
Sometimes fans probably take them more seriously than their creators, but a lot of the time, comic books are going out of their way to be taken seriously. The fans are only responding to the comics the ways the writers intended them to.
So it's kind of like how the author of Kodomo no Jikan wrote it to just be funny and tasteless, but the fandom itself is what causes such a riot and crosses some ridiculously uncomfortable topics?
Good, because if I ever caught you reading that shit I would fucking kill you. I will not tolerate anyone under my righteous rule to partake in reading such disgusting material.
Pffff, pedophilia being immoral and bad? What's wrong with people these days...
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I'm not sure if this is the thread for this, but Friday just got back from the local gaming store. She purchased many magic cards and saw a group of teens (three guys, one woman) playing magic.
She's humoring the idea of going back to play with them, but there's pretty much no way that wouldn't end with Friday standing over their broken and shattered bodies laughing manically as she feasts on their still beating hearts.
Doctor Who reference in Pokemon B2W2? Headcanon accepted.
I'm not accusing you specifically of hypocrisy, A8, but the whole general take on the matter. And as for me dismissing your argument in regards to cultural context, the reason I did that is because I'm sticking to the actual heart of the issue and not concerned with any extenuating factors.
And I haven't minced words at all, I think I've been very clear why I raised this issue in the first place. And, for the nth time, here it is again: Why is a niche entertainment medium being criticized for doing what amounts to the same thing that a much larger, mainstream entertainment medium thrives on? If we go back a few pages, the complaint was about sexually objectified females in comics and I asked that if such objectification is so bad, why do romance novels get a free pass to do the very same thing to men? To which several people here, including yourself, immediately jumped in to inform me that it's not the same thing, but without a solid reasoning for this. It's a very, very simple question that deserves a simple answer and that is one thing that I have not seen yet.
@ Corporal Forsythe: Do they get a free pass? Like Naney said above, romance novels are normally regarded as little more than smut, while comic books are taken comparatively seriously and form the basis of an entire subculture.
What I do know though, is that in the end Bat Girl is a whore and Christian Grey is a whore. Both are used to turn people on. Both of them are used to make money off of people.
Like, I think the question is
"Is sexism in Nerd Culture a problem?"
No.
"Why?"
Because I said so.
"How is that a valid argument?"
Because I said it is.
"That is a hypocritical statement."
The only hypocrisy that is right is mine, therefore, I am undeniably right. There is no problem with sexism in nerd culture as long as I say there isn't and anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong.
And then She-Hulk lived happily ever after, the end.
P.S. Twilight was better than any book Anne Rice wrote.
They don't really get a pass. It's just that the fact is that men
hardly go through the same levels of objetification women do
They're privileged and often determine the content in said romance novels (Or in other words, they're the editors and publishers who choose to use these images because they assume that women go crazy for naked men)
Mind you, I don't think that men being objectified is good. It's just that when you consider how much female objectification there is vs how much male objectification there is, it seems hardly productive to go around and fight against male objectification, which is only manifested in niche literature sub-genres that hardly if ever make it into the mainstream (Whereas female objectification is not just in comics but in popular TV shows and films that are broadcasted and shown worldwide)
If we keep it to comics, though, then there are a few things to mention:
Comics in and of themselves are not really mainstream but as Rottweiler pointed out, the characters are often used in mass media, and the portrayals within the comics are hardly if ever changed.
Comics also attract media portrayal discussions because adaptations are popular and the fact is that they're a huge part of our pop culture (Show me a kid who doesn't know about Batman and I'll show you a kid who's never interacted with a TV, a movie theater, a newspaper or almost any human being in the planet)
Romance novels, with certain exceptions, often tend to just fall into a huge pile of genericness in the pop cultural consciousness. And even those that arguably objectify men often have bigger issues regarding the way they handle female characters (See: Twilight)
Also, in all of this, as mentioned previously, is the fact that male objectification doesn't quite come in the same flavor as female objectification. For one thing, male objectification tends to be empowering and based on ideals that we have established a man should be. Like, it would make sense for you to want to look like Tom Welling. But female objectification often comes with the overall notion that women should only be there for the men to be pleasured, either/both visually or sexually. Which is why the whole argument that, for example, men are idealized in comics and thus they're objectified/makes female objectifcation doesn't hold much water. Because in the end you want to be Batman, as impossible as it sounds and he's designed to be the sort of person every person wants to be. But why would you want to be a female in comic books when you're just gonna be constantly defined by your relationship with men and probably killed off to give some dude grief?
I mean, sure, there are great female characters who have come to be defined on her own (Batwoman, for instance) but they're exceptions rather than rules. (Admittedly, this is something that has been slowly, but surely changing and I'm rather hopeful about the matter)
Okay, how about this: why don't we drop the comics vs. romance novels thing because this is a thread for sexism in nerd culture, not for middle aged women. Sexism in romance novels, while certainly a problem, isn't the problem at hand.
Okay, how about this: why don't we drop the comics vs. romance novels thing because this is a thread for sexism in nerd culture, not for middle aged women. Sexism in romance novels, while certainly a problem, isn't the problem at hand.
I'd prefer if we didn't have to rely on such tactics in order to assuage somebody's doubts.
Because the sexism is there to ensure graphic novel sales and encourage future fetishism and secure worksafe pornographic material, supporting the nerds affiliated with the characters to masturbate, and allow their serotonin levels to stay adequate, which prevents their existential depression from reaching critical mass and triggering psychotic episodes that could lead to school shootings or post office vandalism.
Doubts about what? Forsythe never said he doesn't believe sexism in comics is a problem.
Doubts, objection, whatever. Point is, I'm not interested in shutting down discussion because it's a tangent, mostly because it's still one relevant to the topic and it actually brings a rather important point, which is basically "Why is this a problem?". Something that may seem obvious to you and me, but not to everybody. And if you wish for other people to understand why it is important, you can't just go and dismiss their concerns and doubts.
millercross said: Kexruct said:Doubts about what? Forsythe never said he doesn't believe sexism in comics is a problem.
Doubts, objection, whatever. Point is, I'm not interested in shutting down discussion because it's a tangent, mostly because it's still one relevant to the topic and it actually brings a rather important point, which is basically "Why is this a problem?". Something that may seem obvious to you and me, but not to everybody. And if you wish for other people to understand why it is important, you can't just go and dismiss their concerns and doubts.
No one ever said it wasn't a problem. In fact, everyone said it was a problem.
^^ Man, at this point you're basically nitpicking. My point is just that I don't like the overall idea of changing a topic just because it gets frustrating to discuss it.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
^^ Man, at this point you're basically nitpicking. My point is just that I don't like the overall idea of changing a topic just because it gets frustrating to discuss it.
It's not so much that it's frustrating, just that it's basically turned into a meta discussion regarding the applicability of a comparison and not really about the topic anymore
Comments
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B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
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Is it like, in a different language?
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
But secondly, comic books and romance novels are not exactly the same, and the bulk of my last post consisted of detailing specific ways in which they differ. This is apparently 'rationalization'; so i guess you're assuming i just have some groundless desire to attack comic books and have no interest in their actual contents? Well, let's start with the obvious, shall we - she's She-Hulk. Rather than a character in her own right, her primary identifying characteristic, the one being used to define her, is that she's like the Incredible Hulk, but female. It's in her name, and it informs much of her character design. So right off the bat, she's already secondary to another character - one who in many respects really isn't all that much like her, actually, but that's how she's being presented and marketed to readers. Furthermore, she's not just the Hulk but female, she's a sexy female, according to the conventions of the genre, which entails not only body shape and skimpy clothing, but also the kinds of poses she's drawn in, which would often be ridiculous on a male character.
It's not really fair to single out She-Hulk here, because she's hardly the worst, and she's arguably a step up from the usual legions of girlfriends-in-distress and bland heroines, but she's certainly typical of the way in which women are portrayed in comic books. i am not convinced that you have understood my argument. i'm not arguing that comics are sexist and romance novels aren't - both are pretty sexist, frankly - i'm arguing that they are different, and i've given numerous reasons why the arguments used to condemn the one do not necessarily apply to the other.
Context is important. If you don't look at the context in which a work is produced and consumed, you aren't taking the work on its own terms or the terms of its readers. It is impossible to read a work 'as it is', so if you aren't prepared to consider context, you are reduced to interpreting it through the filter of your own values and preconceptions. This is not conducive to understanding the perspectives of other people.
You've stated repeatedly that you don't mean to be rude. You've also repeatedly accused me of hypocrisy and dismissed my arguments (which again, made specific comparisons and explained how they differed) as empty rationalization, without attempting to understand my perspective here. I'm grateful that you read my post and took the time to respond to it; you needn't mince your words. Tell me what you really think.
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
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Well, kind of.
But the audience is encouraged to take them seriously by the way in which the comics style themselves. They present epic storylines with action sequences, moral dilemmas and good vs. evil conflicts. They present themselves as myths for a modern age.
Sometimes fans probably take them more seriously than their creators, but a lot of the time, comic books are going out of their way to be taken seriously. The fans are only responding to the comics the ways the writers intended them to.
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
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☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
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Pffff, pedophilia being immoral and bad? What's wrong with people these days...
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
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i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Good night.
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
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I'm not sure.
What I do know though, is that in the end Bat Girl is a whore and Christian Grey is a whore. Both are used to turn people on. Both of them are used to make money off of people.
Like, I think the question is
"Is sexism in Nerd Culture a problem?"
No.
"Why?"
Because I said so.
"How is that a valid argument?"
Because I said it is.
"That is a hypocritical statement."
The only hypocrisy that is right is mine, therefore, I am undeniably right. There is no problem with sexism in nerd culture as long as I say there isn't and anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong.
And then She-Hulk lived happily ever after, the end.
P.S. Twilight was better than any book Anne Rice wrote.
yeah idk
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
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Always ask yourself before you type letters on a forum:
"what do I gain from this?"
I could have bought a Pizza and went to the casino already, but here I am, on the internet. On a thread about sexism in nerd culture.
for no reason other than to attempt to win a logical culture argument without using logic.
It's like achievements I want to do before I die. It's stupid but it increases my serotonin levels, which makes it worth it I guess?
Hell I could do this on my phone at the casino. I should do that.
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B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
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Why don't we all get drunk and try to discuss this thread?
I'm sure the results will be hilarious and cover new grounds!
大學的年同性戀毛皮
aaaaa
- hardly go through the same levels of objetification women do
- They're privileged and often determine the content in said romance novels (Or in other words, they're the editors and publishers who choose to use these images because they assume that women go crazy for naked men)
Mind you, I don't think that men being objectified is good. It's just that when you consider how much female objectification there is vs how much male objectification there is, it seems hardly productive to go around and fight against male objectification, which is only manifested in niche literature sub-genres that hardly if ever make it into the mainstream (Whereas female objectification is not just in comics but in popular TV shows and films that are broadcasted and shown worldwide)☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
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Whose Rotteweiler?
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
⚢
i mean, you could analyze it, but it's not representative.
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
⚢
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
That's not even in the same hemisphere.
GC takes place in an independent universe where
- Almost everyone's underage (which makes cheesecake problematic)
- Females are commonly shown as characters in their own right rather than characters associated with different characters
It's also part of the webcomic world, which generally lacks the decades of work that produced the modern comic world.☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
⚢
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
⚢
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
⚢
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
⚢
* Female fans are somewhat excluded or off-put
* The fandoms reputation suffers from primarystream views
that's it, right?
Doubts, objection, whatever. Point is, I'm not interested in shutting down discussion because it's a tangent, mostly because it's still one relevant to the topic and it actually brings a rather important point, which is basically "Why is this a problem?". Something that may seem obvious to you and me, but not to everybody. And if you wish for other people to understand why it is important, you can't just go and dismiss their concerns and doubts.
No one ever said it wasn't a problem. In fact, everyone said it was a problem.
☭
B̤̺͍̰͕̺̠̕u҉̖͙̝̮͕̲ͅm̟̼̦̠̹̙p͡s̹͖ ̻T́h̗̫͈̙̩r̮e̴̩̺̖̠̭̜ͅa̛̪̟͍̣͎͖̺d͉̦͠s͕̞͚̲͍ ̲̬̹̤Y̻̤̱o̭͠u̥͉̥̜͡ ̴̥̪D̳̲̳̤o̴͙̘͓̤̟̗͇n̰̗̞̼̳͙͖͢'҉͖t̳͓̣͍̗̰ ͉W̝̳͓̼͜a̗͉̳͖̘̮n͕ͅt͚̟͚ ̸̺T̜̖̖̺͎̱ͅo̭̪̰̼̥̜ ̼͍̟̝R̝̹̮̭ͅͅe̡̗͇a͍̘̤͉͘d̼̜ 
⚢
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis