Huh. So that's why that one Star Fox game was so different
I can't help but compare this to John Green's internet series. His was a bit more lighthearted.
She's spending a bit too much time on the history of the trope leading up to video games.
Oh, boy, the exposition goes on forever. We know about damsels in distress, Ms. S. You could have just briefly touched on the major examples. No need to show a clip for each one.
Alright, 12 minutes in. The overall stye of the video's kind of wooden (again, compared to John Green's informative internet series), but she hasn't said anything that seems egregiously wrong.
...She just took a trope name from TvTropes! And used the page image, on top of that!
Heh, they used Conan music in an old OOTS ad.
Alright, Amy Rose is really not the best character to illustrate this trope with. Sega's more comfortable with using big catastrophes and shiny objects as character motivations, not girls. Heck, Amy actually breaks Sonic out of jail in Sonic Adventure 2.
Pit also isn't a goddess. He's nowhere near as powerful as her.
...and?
Put it this way: If it had been a god rather than a goddess, a sizable chunk of people would be crying foul, because the idea makes no sense.
To keep with the Nintendo theme: Peach has been shown, ever since SMB2/USA to be just as skilled a fighter as the Bros. Despite this, due to tradition, it is still her who gets kidnapped in most of the series, with no resistance from her, instead of, say, any other evil plot under the sun. If Bowser started to kidnap Mario or Luigi on a regular basis, it would be just as silly, because they are shown again and again to be very good at what they do.
I remember seeing the kickstarter right after it finished, and going "yeah, make that documentary!" And I tried to stay positive, even though I head news about her incompetence. But this could have been better. There's little exploration. Cause and effect is talked about for a few minutes, but not besides that. She just keeps going on and on about damsels without taking the time to illustrate how they're problematic. I feel like you could have just copypasted Tvtropes's page on the trope and added "and this is bad" after every few lines, and it would have been just as effective.
Concerning Zelda, I think she's pretty spot-on. Sort of. OOTS:Zelda and WW:Zelda are largely restricted to damsels in distress while in traditional feminine roles. The games imply that you can either be feminine or generally useful, not both. She definitely could have explored the implications more. You can even see a bit of that in Spirit Tracks, where Zelda's most useful inside of a suit of armor (not that I've played the game; I'm kind of making assumptions here)
Concerning Palutena (in the original Kid Icarus; I've never played the sequel), I think the crux of the matter is that Pit (and the player) is given the opportunity to fight the problems that he faces. Admittedly, Palutena's the one who gives Pit his bow and arrow in the first place. But she still spends most of the game in chains (or crystallized or something).
You can even see a bit of that in Spirit Tracks, where Zelda's most useful inside of a suit of armor
She's kinda incorporeal for most of the game, so yeah, she can't be useful in that situation. She is key to one of the boss fights when she's in the Phantom armour though.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
Out of curiosity, I just watched this vid. Really, I see nothing wrong here, and good points are made. She is not attacking gamers, or even their favorite hobby. She clearly enjoys games. She is attacking the sexist mentalities that continue to pervade game stories and characters.
Also, why does the internet hate this woman so much? o_o It's more than a little frightening. Admittedly, I would be skeptical if someone wants to raise money to make videos without detailing what the funds are being used for ("research" is not a good answer to me), but... I kind of suspect that some people are made uncomfortable when they're told the ways in which their culture is sexist, thus, she is the target of death-threats and scary stuff.
Out of curiosity, I just watched this vid. Really, I see nothing wrong here, and good points are made. She is not attacking gamers, or even their favorite hobby. She clearly enjoys games. She is attacking the sexist mentalities that continue to pervade game stories and characters.
Also, why does the internet hate this woman so much? o_o It's more than a little frightening. Admittedly, I would be skeptical if someone wants to raise money to make videos without detailing what the funds are being used for ("research" is not a good answer to me), but... I kind of suspect that some people are made uncomfortable when they're told the ways in which their culture is sexist, thus, she is the target of death-threats and scary stuff.
Really the before/after image and the twitpic Naney posted sum up all the valid problems people have with her.
The rest is "hurr durr stoopid wimmin tawkin bout gamin"
Ugh, no insult to Buttercup, but when she reblogged it, I had to resist the urge to comment, because that would be really dickish to do to someone I know from IRC.
But yeah, my problem with Anita is that her series just does nothing new. I've argued before on TVT that what feminists who are into games should be more active, pushing for more women in the games industry and other stuff like that that could make an actual difference as opposed to doing a video series on tropes and trying to be a call to action when I could instead read some fucking TVT pages and come away a little more educated.
I dunno, maybe it's just me and I'm actually just sick of being moralized at, even indirectly.
With this whole Anita thing, I will admit that it's probably not as introspective as one who got kickstarted could do, But I will hold her somewhat shallow delving in the same mind-space as I do when try to call foul of, say, casting actors who happen to belong to a minority race(skin color that is), even if for narrative or even world-building standards it wouldn't make sense.
In that, the world is certainly not a point (although we wish it to be) where this kind of thing is just another somewhat average, to sub-average look at the problems involving a sub-culture.
It is, in my opinion mind you, but my point thus being, that this is getting any kind of traffic at all(and subsequent panning) seems to me that an underlying problem is still in effect. one where I personally don't mind the existence of a shallow introspective of it, so long as it gets the topic of it on people's minds.
So much of her "analysis" irritates me. It's making it hard to write down what the problems with it are because every time I think I have the "one big problem," another one pops up.
Why is she getting paid for this? There's nothing at all special about what she's doing, she's just listing examples of games where you rescue a female character.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
Well, you can list what you think is wrong with her arguments.
Fossilmaiden is implying, I think (perhaps correctly), that gender to our culture transcends even deity status, such that even if a woman is literally a goddess, she is still objectified/seen as 'less powerful' than male characters.
Well, you can list what you think is wrong with her arguments.
Fossilmaiden is implying, I think (perhaps correctly), that gender to our culture transcends even deity status, such that even if a woman is literally a goddess, she is still objectified/seen as 'less powerful' than male characters.
In other words, Other M is garbage and you should feel bad if you liked the story.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I'm currently trying to decide whether I should bother watching this video.
Well, you can list what you think is wrong with her arguments.
Fossilmaiden is implying, I think (perhaps correctly), that gender to our culture transcends even deity status, such that even if a woman is literally a goddess, she is still objectified/seen as 'less powerful' than male characters.
Her kidnapping makes sense in context. Spoilers for Uprising ahead:
The protagonist, Pit, is an angel who serves the goddess Palutena. Everything he's able to do in the game is because of her. At one point, when fighting an opposing goddess, Pit accidentally releases an ancient monster called the Chaos Kin, which transforms Pit into a ring and takes over Palutena's body, with the implication that it did so because she is more powerful. Pit is only saved because a small child, then a dog, then an old friend just happened to pick him up while he was in ring form.
Now, if Fossil was talking about the original... well, it's classic Nintendo, what do you expect.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
Avenue: There is probably nothing in the 20 - 30 minutes that she hasn't already said before (or that is really profoundly new in feminism) so probably not. But if you're curious, then watch it I guess. :)
I like Zelda just fine (A Link to the Past is one of my favorite games!) and her criticisms are still very valid.
She didn't actually criticize anything on more than a superficial level. Rather than looking at elements of the story of each game that she looked at (the fact that Mario is an extremely tongue-in-cheek series, for example, flew right over her head apparently), she just made the blanket assumption that any game with a rescue a female plot is immediately sexist and completely ignores every other aspect of the game's story in the process.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
Kex: re: Icraus: Well, she didn't give the proper context then, so maybe it does make sense since it seems to be a conflict between warring deities; however, the point about damsels-in-distress-needing-heroic-guys-to-save-them is still there I think? (correct me if that isn't the plot)
I think that having a plot like that isn't inherently a problem, is what I'm getting at. The real problem isn't that Link or Richter Belmont or Mario or Fox rescue a girl, it's that Link and Richter Belmont and Mario and Fox rescue a girl.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
She didn't actually criticize anything on more than a superficial level. Rather than looking at elements of the story of each game that she looked at (the fact that Mario is an extremely tongue-in-cheek series, for example, flew right over her head apparently), she just made the blanket assumption that any game with a rescue a female plot is immediately sexist. In doing so, she makes the egregious mistake of ignoring every aspect of plot and character, and in doing so, uses the female characters as an object for her argument.
I think her point is that these stories have all been done before, again and again, and have yet to move past the weak-damsels-needing-guys-to-save-them thing, which is a sexist cliché. Like, why shouldn't Zelda be able to save herself, or go on her own adventure? etc.
Kex: re: Icraus: Well, she didn't give the proper context then, so maybe it does make sense since it seems to be a conflict between warring deities; however, the point about damsels-in-distress-needing-heroic-guys-to-save-them is still there I think? (correct me if that isn't the plot)
The plot is all over the place. Rescuing Palutena is a small arc, and Pit is actually absolutely helpless without one of the two goddess's help. Kid Icarus is actually just about one of the worst examples of sexism in video games.
Earthlight Ray said:She didn't actually criticize anything on more than a superficial level. Rather than looking at elements of the story of each game that she looked at (the fact that Mario is an extremely tongue-in-cheek series, for example, flew right over her head apparently), she just made the blanket assumption that any game with a rescue a female plot is immediately sexist. In doing so, she makes the egregious mistake of ignoring every aspect of plot and character, and in doing so, uses the female characters as an object for her argument. I think her point is that these stories have all been done before, again and again, and have yet to move past the weak-damsels-needing-guys-to-save-them thing, which is a sexist cliché. Like, why shouldn't Zelda be able to save herself, or go on her own adventure? etc.
In the most recent Zelda game, Zelda is arguably more important to the plot than Link. I'm trying to think of other examples of this kind of thing being reversed, but frankly most modern games don't have plots like that anymore so it's kind of odd that she would even talk about it as if anybody but Nintendo uses it, and even then it's only actually used in Mario, which is, as mentioned earlier, tongue-in-cheek.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
Importance is not really the issue; the two issues are 1) is Zelda at any point helpless and requiring a rescue by Link? and 2) is Zelda's role an "object" in the plot, or a driving character? This is what the video is about.
Comments
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
We will count to ten and then go to sleep.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
To keep with the Nintendo theme: Peach has been shown, ever since SMB2/USA to be just as skilled a fighter as the Bros. Despite this, due to tradition, it is still her who gets kidnapped in most of the series, with no resistance from her, instead of, say, any other evil plot under the sun. If Bowser started to kidnap Mario or Luigi on a regular basis, it would be just as silly, because they are shown again and again to be very good at what they do.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
I remember seeing the kickstarter right after it finished, and going "yeah, make that documentary!" And I tried to stay positive, even though I head news about her incompetence. But this could have been better. There's little exploration. Cause and effect is talked about for a few minutes, but not besides that. She just keeps going on and on about damsels without taking the time to illustrate how they're problematic. I feel like you could have just copypasted Tvtropes's page on the trope and added "and this is bad" after every few lines, and it would have been just as effective.
Concerning Zelda, I think she's pretty spot-on. Sort of. OOTS:Zelda and WW:Zelda are largely restricted to damsels in distress while in traditional feminine roles. The games imply that you can either be feminine or generally useful, not both. She definitely could have explored the implications more. You can even see a bit of that in Spirit Tracks, where Zelda's most useful inside of a suit of armor (not that I've played the game; I'm kind of making assumptions here)
Concerning Palutena (in the original Kid Icarus; I've never played the sequel), I think the crux of the matter is that Pit (and the player) is given the opportunity to fight the problems that he faces. Admittedly, Palutena's the one who gives Pit his bow and arrow in the first place. But she still spends most of the game in chains (or crystallized or something).
Also, why does the internet hate this woman so much? o_o It's more than a little frightening. Admittedly, I would be skeptical if someone wants to raise money to make videos without detailing what the funds are being used for ("research" is not a good answer to me), but... I kind of suspect that some people are made uncomfortable when they're told the ways in which their culture is sexist, thus, she is the target of death-threats and scary stuff.
Really the before/after image and the twitpic Naney posted sum up all the valid problems people have with her.
The rest is "hurr durr stoopid wimmin tawkin bout gamin"
But yeah, my problem with Anita is that her series just does nothing new. I've argued before on TVT that what feminists who are into games should be more active, pushing for more women in the games industry and other stuff like that that could make an actual difference as opposed to doing a video series on tropes and trying to be a call to action when I could instead read some fucking TVT pages and come away a little more educated.
I dunno, maybe it's just me and I'm actually just sick of being moralized at, even indirectly.
In that, the world is certainly not a point (although we wish it to be) where this kind of thing is just another somewhat average, to sub-average look at the problems involving a sub-culture.
It is, in my opinion mind you, but my point thus being, that this is getting any kind of traffic at all(and subsequent panning) seems to me that an underlying problem is still in effect. one where I personally don't mind the existence of a shallow introspective of it, so long as it gets the topic of it on people's minds.
Fossilmaiden is implying, I think (perhaps correctly), that gender to our culture transcends even deity status, such that even if a woman is literally a goddess, she is still objectified/seen as 'less powerful' than male characters.
Rather than looking at elements of the story of each game that she
looked at (the fact that Mario is an extremely tongue-in-cheek series,
for example, flew right over her head apparently), she just made the
blanket assumption that any game with a rescue a female plot is
immediately sexist. In doing so, she makes the egregious mistake of
ignoring every aspect of plot and character, and in doing so, uses the
female characters as an object for her argument.
I think her point is that these stories have all been done before, again and again, and have yet to move past the weak-damsels-needing-guys-to-save-them thing, which is a sexist cliché. Like, why shouldn't Zelda be able to save herself, or go on her own adventure? etc.
In the most recent Zelda game, Zelda is arguably more important to the plot than Link. I'm trying to think of other examples of this kind of thing being reversed, but frankly most modern games don't have plots like that anymore so it's kind of odd that she would even talk about it as if anybody but Nintendo uses it, and even then it's only actually used in Mario, which is, as mentioned earlier, tongue-in-cheek.