To the dark fantasy matter: Neil Gaiman writes quite a bit of dark short fiction that dances the line between fantasy and full-on horror or weird fiction. He is the first person that I think of. Also, interestingly, Straub and King's The Talisman, which is basically a quest story that happens to involve some really, really horrific events.
(By which I mean really disturbing twists on the idea of Platonic ideals and plenty of unabashed human cruelty. It gets a little too giddy with the fairy tale reversals at the end, but to be fair, it fits the tone and tradition of the tale in question.)
Like I said, to me, dark fantasy is virtually synonymous with supernatural horror. Dracula, for instance, is to me every bit as fantastic as it is horrific, if not more so. There's nothing ambiguous about the supernatural aspects of the story, and nor is there any attempt to present them as something scientifically plausible, as in, say, Frankenstein, or even the works of HP Lovecraft. So already there's that sense of distance between you and the horror, a sense that it might not be happening in the real world. To me that's fantasy.
Probably less contentiously, I would take it to refer to the genre that Stephen King's The Dark Tower takes place in - not exactly horror, but with more of a horror lean than you might expect from the word 'fantasy'. Sredni mentioned Neil Gaiman; I haven't read much of his, but The Sandman would certainly qualify as dark fantasy, in my book.
Supernatural horror and weird fiction definitely dwell in the same territory as dark fantasy, but the lack of light at the end of the fictive tunnel tends to define them more crucially than what elements lead to that point. Dark fantasy, as in The Sandman, The Dark Tower or The Bloody Chamber (fuck yeah, Angela Carter, woo!), tends to be, in the very old sense, comedy rather than tragedy. We are taken on an intense and nerve-wracking journey with moments of real horror, but the destination is never so final or so crucial as in, say, Kafka's "A Country Doctor" - a classic of horror if I ever saw one.
The Bloody Chamber (fuck yeah, Angela Carter, woo!)
:D
and yes, I see what you mean on the comedy rather than tragedy point.
Incidentally, when you say 'weird fiction', to what exactly are you referring? I've heard the term before, I think, but it's never come up on my course and I don't know if I've ever read anything in the genre.
Actually, now that I think about it, some of the stories in The Bloody Chamber are not comic in the slightest.
First and foremost, I'd call them fairy tales, but fairy tales of a very dark and subversive variety.
Subversive not just in the TVT sense of going against reader expectations, but in the sense that they critique the fairy tale genre, and often society as well.
weird fiction is stuff like dunsay or lovecraft that kinda falls between science fiction, fantasy and horror, and it can be applied to more recent authors that do similar things.
Actually, now that I think about it, some of the stories in The Bloody Chamber are not comic in the slightest.
First and foremost, I'd call them fairy tales, but fairy tales of a very dark and subversive variety.
Subversive not just in the TVT sense of going against reader expectations, but in the sense that they critique the fairy tale genre, and often society as well.
I meant comedy in the reeeeeeally old sense of "a drama that ends on a strong life-affirming or hopeful note." Very few of Carter's stories are truly tragic, although they are very dark at points; rather, they are affirming of viewpoints quite contrary to what one would expect from the genre. I especially like "The Tiger's Bride", "The Company of Wolves" and "Wolf-Alice" in that way.
weird fiction is stuff like dunsay or lovecraft that kinda falls between science fiction, fantasy and horror, and it can be applied to more recent authors that do similar things.
Generally speaking, this is true, although it might be worth noting that, as Thomas Ligotti pointed out in an interview with Jeff Vandermeer (both being notable modern writers in the genre), the defining feature of weird fiction is that the heart of the tale is an enigma. The Turn of the Screw is a weird story despite being framed as a ghost story because whether what is happening is reliably related is perpetually in question; "The Great God Pan" is a weird story because the nature of the titular force is beyond human comprehension and never actually explained or described; and so on.
"Weird" here means both "alien" and "pertaining to fate" in this case, by the way.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Your Fave Is Problematic should be taken with a heavy dose of salt. Sometimes they have a point, but a lot of that post is really stretching or shows a lack of awareness of context.
The accusations of fatphobia are absurd, but the accusations of transphobia are at the very least ungenerous.
Even the 'friendzone' video was clearly an advice video directed at males who complain about it. It just happens to be constructive advice, rather than insults.
And I mean really. Are we seriously at the point where any opinion on the matter other than 'all body shapes are equally healthy' constitutes 'fat-shaming'? Where what a person does with her own body is taken to be a political statement for tumblr to critique?
Ostensibly it's intended to discourage the placing of celebrities on pedestals, not to shame celebrities for un-PC opinions, but even so it's highly reductive.
Of course, in cases like Laci Green or (as with the last time YFIP was brought up here) Andrew Hussie, 'celebrity' really means a reasonably well-known internet personality, which I think possibly makes the purpose of the blog even more questionable.
There's also this incredible bit of tone-deafness.
For those unaware: This is a still from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, a show about a group of terrible, terrible people. In this episode, the character pictured tries to prove that it's possible to do "tasteful blackface," because he's a terrible person.
YFIP understands no nuance, no satire, no nothing. And they're not all that big on actually fact-checking, either. There have been all kinds of unproven BS posted there. Of course, they could be trolling. It's so hard to tell.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Things that piss me off irrationally: YFIP's index is in alphabetical order by first name.
It's not so much about his shock with [technology]... It's more about the societal differences. He's gone from the '40s to today; he comes from a world where people were a little more trusting, the threats not as deep. Now, it's harder to tell who's right and wrong. Actions you take to protect people from threats could compromise liberties and privacy. That's tough for Steve to swallow.
(*vomits forever*)
brb gouging my eyes out so i never accidentally see any of this
also kexruct please do not respond to this post i do not want to have this discussion and if i do i will cry please do not make me cry thank
The reductiveness and the seeming inability to take a joke are both things, but it also seems like YFIP uses "just fucking Google it" as a serious response more than they really should. :P
Also, as I mentioned in the main thread earlier, where do culture blending and cultural appropriation meet? It almost seems like some people on Tumblr are advocating a weird form of segregation.
Okay, I read some more of YFIP, and I'm pretty sure they're fucking with people. Most people only complain about celebrities when they do something that's actually destructive, like domestic abuse or other violent crimes, so I can see some of the point, but it also seems like they're saying "This celebrity is a bad person for not watching every single word they say, and you should feel bad for liking them".
They also do not understand sarcasm. At all. A joke about Chris Brown beating Rihanna went right over their heads, probably because it's more of a burn than a joke and the person saying it most likely doesn't like Chris at all.
Those two things (insistence on utter perfection, then moving the goalposts once you achieve it, and ignoring sarcasm) are hallmarks of moralist trolls of several different stripes...
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I looked at their Sarah Silverman page
I love how they make no distinction between "this person said an offensive thing as a joke" and "this person said an offensive thing because they believe it"
Not that it's wrong to be upset by the former, but at least recognize the difference, you know?
Comments
Probably less contentiously, I would take it to refer to the genre that Stephen King's The Dark Tower takes place in - not exactly horror, but with more of a horror lean than you might expect from the word 'fantasy'. Sredni mentioned Neil Gaiman; I haven't read much of his, but The Sandman would certainly qualify as dark fantasy, in my book.
and yes, I see what you mean on the comedy rather than tragedy point.
Incidentally, when you say 'weird fiction', to what exactly are you referring? I've heard the term before, I think, but it's never come up on my course and I don't know if I've ever read anything in the genre.
First and foremost, I'd call them fairy tales, but fairy tales of a very dark and subversive variety.
Subversive not just in the TVT sense of going against reader expectations, but in the sense that they critique the fairy tale genre, and often society as well.
And, thanks for the definition of 'weird fiction'. It sounds most intriguing.
The accusations of fatphobia are absurd, but the accusations of transphobia are at the very least ungenerous.
Even the 'friendzone' video was clearly an advice video directed at males who complain about it. It just happens to be constructive advice, rather than insults.
Ostensibly it's intended to discourage the placing of celebrities on pedestals, not to shame celebrities for un-PC opinions, but even so it's highly reductive.
Of course, in cases like Laci Green or (as with the last time YFIP was brought up here) Andrew Hussie, 'celebrity' really means a reasonably well-known internet personality, which I think possibly makes the purpose of the blog even more questionable.
I love how they make no distinction between "this person said an offensive thing as a joke" and "this person said an offensive thing because they believe it"
Not that it's wrong to be upset by the former, but at least recognize the difference, you know?