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  • edited 2016-03-12 05:19:51
    Final verdict: Shinji Ikari is a good kid who deserves much better treatment than what he gets, both in-universe and out.
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    Alduin said:

    Final verdict: Shinji Ikari is a good kid who deserves much better treatment than what he gets, both in-universe and out.

    Indeed.
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    I still haven't watched Evangelion
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    I've looked and apparently they're going to be seven-minute episodes.

    Well, a little Imiaishi is better than no Imiaishi and I can always just wait for the season to conclude then watch all the episodes at once.
  • edited 2016-03-13 04:54:51
    One problem is Guilty Crown is that Inori Yuzuriha is presented as someone the perspective character (Shu Ouma) is very interested in, yet beyond being pretty (supposedly), she is really not that interesting of a character.

    Appreciating her really depends on you having a similar mindset as Shu, in other words having the hots for Inori.  The series itself doesn't do enough to make her interesting.  So, to put it uncharitably, she's basically first an object of sexual desire.

    Inori's lack of interesting characterization can be compared to Rei Ayanami's lack of personality.  Unlike Rei, though, Inori isn't just used a plot device; her love for Shu is supposed to be central to Guilty Crown's story.

    Ironically, despite being less central to the story, Ayase is a more interesting character in that regard.  She's got a personality, she's got desires, she's got aspirations and fears.
  • I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
    is Luluco gonna be fun?
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    Probably!
  • Sup bitches, witches, Haters, and trolls.
    that's the new imaishi thing, right?
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    Yes.
  • edited 2016-03-14 05:17:22
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^^^^ Rei doesn't want for personality at all. She just has a very flat, chilly affect. Rather than boring, she's uncomfortable, because she just does things with absolutely no external emotional distinction between them—not unlike how certain mental illnesses present themselves, incidentally—and the few times her affect breaks, one is led to wonder how she ticks. A lot of people have tried to replicate this formula, but few have succeeded, perhaps because they think like you seem to: That not being expressive or emotional means not having a strong character.

    See also: Anthy Himemiya. Although she is a slightly different beast.

    Anyway, I will definitely be watching the new Imaishi.
  • We can do anything if we do it together.

    Anyway, I will definitely be watching the new Imaishi.
    It's a bit of a shame that it's only seven-minute episodes, but he's no stranger to unusual lengths anyway thanks to Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Jane said:

    Yuki Nagato is the best Rei-esque.

    I'm interested in the sequel show for a few different reasons, but the original Haruhi holds fairly little appeal to me. Sure, it sounds clever and potentially funny, but I just... it's so very much not my scene. Apparently the original light novels are great in Japanese, and those hold some appeal, but all sources of repute inform me that the official translations are lazy and awkward in the extreme, which sucks.
  • I enjoyed The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, the dub.  I think the excellent performance of Kyon's voice actor was key to making it work.  It seems to be quite well-regarded.

    As for Yuki Nagato, she's sorta...meant to be The Emotionless Character, as the show intentionally plays off of that trope to some extent.

    As for Rei, I wouldn't consider Rei to be successful.  She's still very boring as a character.  But her main role in the story is not being a character but is rather being a plot device.

    I think the misconception comes when trying to use this concept to make a character -- one who is meant to be interesting as a character, at least.

    But I guess if you look at her from a certain perspective, there is sort of a mystery to her nature, that her behavior suggests in the viewers.  Arguably it's this sort of mystery that is key to "re-creating Rei", if one really wants to go for this character type (not one that I tend to like anyway, but still).

    And I'd say that Kirika Yuumura in Noir succeeds at this.
  • Jane said:

    Yuki Nagato is the best Rei-esque.

    I'm interested in the sequel show for a few different reasons, but the original Haruhi holds fairly little appeal to me. Sure, it sounds clever and potentially funny, but I just... it's so very much not my scene. Apparently the original light novels are great in Japanese, and those hold some appeal, but all sources of repute inform me that the official translations are lazy and awkward in the extreme, which sucks.
    I consider Haruhi something of a formative experience, so you will have to pardon me if I disagree.

    You are correct about the light novels though, unfortunately.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”

    As for Rei, I wouldn't consider Rei to be successful.  She's still very boring as a character.  But her main role in the story is not being a character but is rather being a plot device.

    I think the misconception comes when trying to use this concept to make a character -- one who is meant to be interesting as a character, at least.

    But I guess if you look at her from a certain perspective, there is sort of a mystery to her nature, that her behavior suggests in the viewers.  Arguably it's this sort of mystery that is key to "re-creating Rei", if one really wants to go for this character type (not one that I tend to like anyway, but still).

    I... disagree. Quite a bit.

    The key to any character is writing them in a way that feels real and makes sense in context. You break the suspension of disbelief with a character's behaviour, and you've failed. A character can be inconsistent, but the inconsistency must feel like how real people can be inconsistent rather than a matter of writing convenience or laziness; a character's personality may be defined by one major trait, but there should be a full range of responses stemming from that root, and a set of human thought processes tied to it. Even alien, cryptic personalities must have something of this world, if only in terms of an absence.

    I'm not that far into the show, but Rei feels believable to me. She is not a happy, friendly, expressive, forthright or even likeable person. She is distant from most of her emotions, and distant from other people. She does not emote well, and while she is almost frighteningly submissive and indifferent to trespasses on her person and bodily harm, mechanically obeying other people less out of deference than indifference to her autonomy, there *is* something in there, in the dark, something strange and volatile. It's a beast hiding in a doll. I find that extremely intriguing.

    You don't have to like such a character, of course. Passive characters don't do much, by definition, and if you're very action-oriented in a writing sense then that can be boring. But that by no means makes a character that does not express much inherently devoid of character. Such an assertion strikes me as very shallow, and again, feeds into the kind of dubious mindset that feeds into writing passive characters so badly.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Jane said:

    Jane said:

    Yuki Nagato is the best Rei-esque.

    I'm interested in the sequel show for a few different reasons, but the original Haruhi holds fairly little appeal to me. Sure, it sounds clever and potentially funny, but I just... it's so very much not my scene. Apparently the original light novels are great in Japanese, and those hold some appeal, but all sources of repute inform me that the official translations are lazy and awkward in the extreme, which sucks.
    I consider Haruhi something of a formative experience, so you will have to pardon me if I disagree.

    You are correct about the light novels though, unfortunately.
    I mean, I'm not even saying it sounds bad. I'm sure it does what it does very, very well. I just don't know if I would enjoy it.
  • ^^ That's why I was saying that that type of character works if you can build a sense of mystery surrounding the character.
  • Jane said:

    Jane said:

    Yuki Nagato is the best Rei-esque.

    I'm interested in the sequel show for a few different reasons, but the original Haruhi holds fairly little appeal to me. Sure, it sounds clever and potentially funny, but I just... it's so very much not my scene. Apparently the original light novels are great in Japanese, and those hold some appeal, but all sources of repute inform me that the official translations are lazy and awkward in the extreme, which sucks.
    I consider Haruhi something of a formative experience, so you will have to pardon me if I disagree.

    You are correct about the light novels though, unfortunately.
    I mean, I'm not even saying it sounds bad. I'm sure it does what it does very, very well. I just don't know if I would enjoy it.
    fair

    Liz Phair, even.
  • edited 2016-03-14 06:10:28
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    ^^ That's fair enough, but the problem is that not enough of these people know what's really going on underneath that surface layer of indifference, or just wrap it around a boring dramatic cliché. Actually knowing why real people behave in that manner helps, much in the way that knowing why people behave violently do so is helpful in writing violent people, or how reading about mental illness or talking to mentally ill people can help you write a more sensitive portrayal of dealing with a mental illness. Real people aren't just aloof, spooky doormats for no reason.
  • edited 2016-03-14 06:12:43

    ^^ That's fair enough, but the problem is that not enough of these people know what's really going on underneath that surface layer of indifference, or just wrap it around a boring dramatic cliché. Actually knowing why real people behave in that manner helps, much in the way that knowing why people behave violently do so is helpful in writing violent people, or how reading about mental illness or talking to mentally ill people can help you write a more sensitive portrayal of dealing with a mental illness. Real people aren't just aloof, spooky doormats for no reason.

    Oh, this, definitely.

    I think I was thinking about how to make the audience find the character interesting enough to think more about them and "approach" them, while you were thinking about how to make the result of that "approach" feel plausible and meaningful.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    OK, that's reasonable.

    I personally think she works, or at least works for me. She's interesting, but for different reasons than Shinji or Misato are interesting.

    On that note... I find Shinji uncomfortably relatable.
  • so far i think he's kind of a dweeb

    it makes sense you'd find him relatable >:3
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    I mean, the whole fourth episode was just a non-stop cavalcade of, "Yup, that certainly is a thing I do. Oh, and look, an emotional situation I have undergone on a number of occasions. I certainly am a human being with issues."
  • after a few rocky episodes im definitely enjoyng the show a lot more than i thought i would be
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Same.

    ^^ You're not my real dad, Jane. ;_;
  • kill living beings
    drrr is good i forgot
  • Same.


    ^^ You're not my real dad, Jane. ;_;
    actually I'm a turn-of-the-milennium uber pimp
  • description:

    A diary. Purikura stickers. Blue-white 3rd Planet Administration Treaty Army. 7:00 am. Triangle situation. Camouflage pattern. The secret toasted bread. 1088th Independent Mobile Platoon. SaHa E233. Type Otsu Foreign Legion. Beast-vehicle. "Hi, guys." Campfire. Pan-galactic rare crystal Ikemeshium. Tears.

    stick around after the credits.

    there's something rather fascinating in the background
  • edited 2016-03-15 05:11:41
    “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Couldn't get VKontakte to work, but it's on YouTube, so yay!

    EDIT: ...with Spanish subtitles. Darnitall.

    EDIT #2: But you can still mostly understand it. Either way, it's pretty bizarre and intriguing.
  • did you see the thing in the background of the post-credits shot though
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    I watched the post-credits bit but I wasn't sure what I was supposed to see.
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    I was reminded of that, yes. I thought you meant something actually in the background, rather than the background itself.
  • the Medical Mechanica building is in the background

    whether it's just the director referencing his prior work or an affirmation that the works exist in the same universe is left as an exercise to the reader
  • Just finished The Boy and the Beast. Go watch it. It's an exploration of positive masculinity, and even reads like Undertale at some points.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    image
  • Munch munch, chomp chomp...
    Alduin said:

    Just finished The Boy and the Beast. Go watch it. It's an exploration of positive masculinity, and even reads like Undertale at some points.

    I will keep it in mind.

    Myr: Lol, still didn't catch up like I meant to.
  • I don't get why so many people like Asuka despite her being overtly verbally abusive to Shinji on very many occasions. I mean yeah, she has a tragic backstory, but so does everyone in Eva.
  • a character doing bad things doesn't really factor into their likability imo
  • edited 2016-03-18 18:37:43

    as a matter of fact I would say that for me there is a slight inverse correlation
  • “I'm surprised. Those clothes… but, aren't you…?”
    Because despite her being a childish prat with a homicidal streak, she's actually fun to watch. Also: Teenage boys, dude.
  • Munch munch, chomp chomp...
    I'm pretty sure teenage boys don't actually exist, bruh.

    Yeah that's also true, can never underestimate the hormone powers of teenage boys.
  • i sympathize heavily with asuka because i feel she represents a sort of justified rage against the (characters/entities that can be said to represent the) heavens, and also one whose quest for settling the score was tragically and unfairly cut short
  • Asuka behaves poorly due to an inflated ego drawn from inflated expectations of her performance as an Eva pilot. She's proudly playing along with the hand she was dealt, but feels the need to denigrate the other pilots when her self-expectation is given a reality shock. 

    It's not that she's good or bad, or nice not not nice, but that she's a relatable human being. Of all the cast, she's also the most overtly expressive and sincerely emotive, which is a welcome change from Shinji and Rei. Which reminds me that Asuka and Misato didn't spend enough time interacting, because they almost seem designed to bounce off one-another. 
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