Roadgeek Thread 2018 (It's Mostly Central Ohio)

Princess Alice · 2017-01-23 03:00:12

Because there's actually quite a few of us here now.

Does anyone have experience with OpenStreetMap? What's the best editor for it? How hard is it to construct roads and roundabouts with just a GPS trace when the Bing satellite map is out of date?

vtk · 2017-01-24 04:41:35

I prefer to use JOSM but there's a slight learning curve to it. The in-browser editors are pretty easy to just pick up and use. I know Potlatch made it easy to see any GPS traces in the editing area which had been uploaded to the site, and I suspect iD also has this capability. In JOSM you can do basically that, or simply load your local GPX file as a layer.

I need to fix my JOSM installation…

Princess Alice · 2017-01-24 04:43:32

My only qualm with JOSM is that it requires...Java

Princess Alice · 2017-01-24 23:01:02

Westerville thankfully seems to have dropped the ridiculous oversized initial thing from their street blades.

January 2013:

Today:

vtk · 2017-01-25 05:05:16

It's like someone took a closer look at the MUTCD

Princess Alice · 2017-01-25 05:14:08

Normally I chalk the oversized initial caps up to misreading of the MUTCD, but the fact that they did both oversized and normal caps on the same sign ("W Main St") made it seem like a deliberate thing, which was confusing.

vtk · 2017-01-25 05:23:36

Yeah I think more often than not on street blades it's intentional, but also they're not compressing the font anymore most of the time

Princess Alice · 2017-01-25 05:25:45

Compressed type was always a pet peeve of mine, especially since it's something that only really came along when computers came along and made it easy to manipulate fonts that way.

Princess Alice · 2017-01-25 06:46:59

I uploaded some GPS traces to OSM and, like...

...yeah, that gives me the alignment of the road, but not enough information to actually construct the roundabouts

These were just traces I made while passing through...I get the impression that if I want the actual roundabouts I'm going to have to go out specifically to get traces, by driving through every possible approach

vtk · 2017-01-25 15:38:29

Yeah, I always try to drive through the roundabout at least once in each direction, sometimes several times so I can sort of draw an average line. I also follow the philosophy of a roundabout being four closely-spaced, yield-controlled intersections, and that influences how I draw them on the map.

vtk · 2017-01-25 15:42:37

Roundabout / ring-of-intersections equivalency illustration:

vtk · 2017-01-27 03:39:59

Central Avenue said:
I uploaded some GPS traces to OSM and, like...

...yeah, that gives me the alignment of the road, but not enough information to actually construct the roundabouts

These were just traces I made while passing through...I get the impression that if I want the actual roundabouts I'm going to have to go out specifically to get traces, by driving through every possible approach

Okay, I didn't see these before tonight because they didn't show up on my mobile device for some reason. Those are some pretty janky traces. I suggest checking the settings in whatever program records your trace. The sampling interval should be like 1s, with no minimum distance between recorded samples. Also, put your recording device (or the GPS antenna if external) up on the dashboard so it gets a clear view of the sky through the windshield.

vtk · 2017-01-27 03:42:49

Also, here's a thing I did like a year or two ago:

What's cool is I couldn't remember the URL so I did a Google Image Search for "two way left turn lane" and it's in the first few dozen results.

Princess Alice · 2017-01-27 04:27:15

Oh good, I'm not the only one with that pet peeve.

Princess Alice · 2017-01-27 04:40:47

As for the traces...yeah, I need to improve their accuracy. The problem is you can't tell the quality of the trace until you get home and view it. :P

glennmagusharvey · 2017-01-27 04:59:52

Oh so this is where the sloppy traces come from! I never knew that. Not meaning to demean -- I was always wondering why someone wouldn't have done it better but if it's coming from a GPS trying to automate it it makes a lot more sense.

Princess Alice · 2017-01-27 21:55:26

I didn't know you used OSM, Glenn.

glennmagusharvey · 2017-01-27 22:05:48

Central Avenue said:
I didn't know you used OSM, Glenn.

I've touched it a few times, mainly as part of "map-a-thon" contests at my school.

vtk · 2017-01-28 18:25:35

I finally got around to updating Java so JOSM works again*, and I just updated the Jeremiah Morrow Bridge to reflect southbound traffic on the new span. And then I corrected the location of a graveyard that had previously been shown in the middle of the freeway.

*JOSM doesn't auto-update, so I probably broke it myself in the first place by updating it without realizing a new Java version was required

Princess Alice · 2017-01-29 01:25:17

You can't just...leave inoperable signal heads uncovered like that. Legally that would make this an all-way stop, I suppose.

Though what's even funnier is the elaborate traffic signal setup for the dead-end. The "no turn on red" makes me laugh every time.

vtk · 2017-01-29 06:53:56

What really bugs me about that part of Marion is if you're coming from 23 and miss the turn onto McMahan, you'd think you could get to Arby's from the Office Depot parking lot, but no. There's a place where those lots connect to the McMahan backage road, but there's giant concrete blocks in the way. So instead you have to go back out to the super busy 95 and make two left turns.

Princess Alice · 2017-01-29 07:00:18

I think I found what you're talking about.

That was always a pet peeve of mine: properties with adjoining pavement that's then arbitrarily blocked off.

I can think of an apartment complex in Reynoldsburg that did a similar thing.

lee4hmz · 2017-02-03 04:08:59

So anyway, I was doing a thought experiment, and see if there was any way at all to get to NYC without paying some sort of toll. So far, the best route I've been able to come up with from, say, Virginia is a thoroughly unpleasant one that goes up I-81 all the way to Binghamton, then takes I-88 to what seems to be the only non-toll Hudson crossing there is, in Albany. And then you get to take US 9 all the way down, because the connection to the Taconic State Parkway is tolled. >.<

If you don't want to bother with all that, the best you can do is Jersey City, NJ via I-78. Though at least you can take PATH from there and leave your car.

glennmagusharvey · 2017-02-03 19:17:31

lee4hmz said:
So anyway, I was doing a thought experiment, and see if there was any way at all to get to NYC without paying some sort of toll. So far, the best route I've been able to come up with from, say, Virginia is a thoroughly unpleasant one that goes up I-81 all the way to Binghamton, then takes I-88 to what seems to be the only non-toll Hudson crossing there is, in Albany. And then you get to take US 9 all the way down, because the connection to the Taconic State Parkway is tolled. >.<

If you don't want to bother with all that, the best you can do is Jersey City, NJ via I-78. Though at least you can take PATH from there and leave your car.

I drove a route from Hartford to Fairfax and back several times, using mainly I-95. Here's what I remember:
* Maryland bridge toll: this one's sorta complicated to avoid, and involves going south to US-40's bridge instead or (if that one has a toll) going north all the way to Conowingo Rd (US-1).
* Delaware toll at exit 1: this one's ridiculously easy to avoid. Just take exit 1 or 109 and use Otts Chapel Road and Elkton Road to bypass the toll booth.
* New Jersey Turnpike: to avoid this one, follow "real I-95" and go through Pennsylvania instead of New Jersey. I haven't charted the full course for this toll skip yet though. I'm pretty sure it involves some non-expressway roads.
* George Washington Bridge / NYC: This one's also very complicated. You can either go around NYC completely, and then approach NYC from the Bronx or Connecticut side, or I think there may be like one or two non-expressway bridges that are non-toll.

lee4hmz · 2017-02-03 19:40:08

Yeah, the hard part is all the bridges over the Hudson. Oh, and I-87 north of town is tolled.

lee4hmz · 2017-02-03 19:46:14

If I feed it to the Google and tell it to avoid tolls, it goes I-270>US 15>I-81>I-78 and then says "screw it" and sends you over the Holland Tunnel.

lee4hmz · 2017-02-03 19:47:14

The more circuitous route would take you hundreds of miles out of your way. It's pretty much a non-starter unless you already live close to the Taconic State Parkway. If you're in Jersey or Long Island, you're still screwed.

glennmagusharvey · 2017-02-03 19:59:52

yeah so much for tolls being a progressive tax

vtk · 2017-02-04 17:41:43

I just stumbled on this gem on my hard drive. Pretty sure this was on Broad St heading east. This sign is no longer in service.

glennmagusharvey · 2017-02-04 18:04:27

There's a road in Arizona named Devil Dog Road. It's got an exit on I-40, a bit west of Williams I think.

Princess Alice · 2017-02-04 18:33:39

@vtk: So as far as I can tell, there are three major generations of I-270 signage as far as control cities go.

Columbus suburbs (e.g. the Dublin / Grove City pictured above)
Major regional cities via I-70 or I-71 (e.g. Cleveland, Cincinnati...with the additional note that I-70 WB's was changed from "Indianapolis" to "Dayton" sometime around the '90s)
No control cities at all! (The most recent signage since 2013-14 or so, with just shield and cardinal direction)

I still haven't figured out why they dropped city names entirely, but there it is.

Does that sound about right?

vtk · 2017-02-05 03:11:26

Yeah, that's it as far as I know.

lee4hmz · 2017-02-05 03:35:37

Speaking of no control cities, here's an example from Virginia (who are usually pretty good about them).

Princess Alice · 2017-02-05 03:43:00

@lee4hmz Here's a quick before-and-after from OH 16 / E. Broad Street. The signage with no city names just looks weird to me.

vtk · 2017-02-05 18:08:23

Central Avenue said:

That sign for 270 south had some serious layout problems anyway.

Princess Alice · 2017-02-05 20:50:35

Yeah it was pretty bad.

Princess Alice · 2017-02-22 21:31:34

Random stuff found while looking through my 2013 photos:

Generic round shield for OH 161. This is on US 23 northbound in Worthington.

Times New Roman street name sign (ugh).

I don't think that's how this works.

I don't think this sign is there anymore, but I was amused with the blank space left when "A-B" was removed from "EXIT 26 A-B" after the I-71 interchange was rebuilt.

I'm not sure this is right, either? But at least it kinda makes sense because you might otherwise expect a grade-separated interchange instead of an at-grade crossroads.

glennmagusharvey · 2017-02-22 22:38:40

Why is the JCT 53 sign not right?

Princess Alice · 2017-02-24 03:49:14

The weird T arrow is nonstandard, and... kind of confusing? It seems to imply that you're already on OH 53, and yet OH 53 goes to both the left and right ahead. (You're actually on US 224, and OH 53 is just a regular crossroads ahead.)

Unrelated: It's kind of amusing to me that every map I've ever seen ignores that Worthington signs their stretch of OH 161 as "Granville Rd" instead of "Dublin-Granville Rd" like the rest of Franklin County...including the official County Engineer's map. (pdf warning)

glennmagusharvey · 2017-02-24 04:18:50

Central Avenue said:
The weird T arrow is nonstandard, and... kind of confusing? It seems to imply that you're already on OH 53, and yet OH 53 goes to both the left and right ahead. (You're actually on US 224, and OH 53 is just a regular crossroads ahead.)

Ah, fair enough.

I figured (correctly) you were on a different road.

Is the intersection actually a three-way intersection, though?

Princess Alice · 2017-02-24 04:25:36

No, it's a four-way intersection.

Here's the sign in context. You can judge for yourself whether the meaning would be clear to you, I guess.

glennmagusharvey · 2017-02-24 05:05:48

I think its meaning is clear, aside from suggesting a 3-way intersection.

Princess Alice · 2017-03-01 04:23:39

Courtesy of Google Street View: Two different ways to make a white shield stand out on a white sign background.

I prefer the one on the left, though @Ikaheishi has suggested the one on the right might look better with a thicker outline.

glennmagusharvey · 2017-03-01 05:54:38

The US 40 badge on the right needs a thicker outline, definitely.

On the left, "USE TOWN ST EXIT" isn't properly spaced out to be fully clear.

Calica · 2017-03-01 07:45:32

I'd prefer the one on the right if it had a thicker outline I think

Princess Alice · 2017-03-01 12:48:13

Things I need to get a picture of: the "TO I-70" assembly on the way out of Eastland Mall that has an Interstate shield on a white square with series C numerals.

Granted, it's not the worst I-70 shield I've seen. This one might be:

Princess Alice · 2017-03-01 22:20:58

It seems like some agencies (and/or their contractors) treat all signs with ROAD CLOSED interchangeably. Like this 2012 New Albany, Ohio closure. This point was impassable; US 62 at this intersection was very much not open to "local traffic".

I've also seen the reverse, with straight-up ROAD CLOSED being used when they clearly intend drivers to be able to access properties that fall between the intersection and the point of closure.

Ikaheishi · 2017-03-03 08:19:47

Central Avenue said:
It seems like some agencies (and/or their contractors) treat all signs with ROAD CLOSED interchangeably. Like this 2012 New Albany, Ohio closure. This point was impassable; US 62 at this intersection was very much not open to "local traffic".
I've also seen the reverse, with straight-up ROAD CLOSED being used when they clearly intend drivers to be able to access properties that fall between the intersection and the point of closure.

I've seen the latter and other incorrect signage put up by contractors way too many times here in California. So much that I can't even think of a specific example off the top of my head, even though I vaguely recall seeing such just a few weeks ago.

vtk · 2017-03-04 00:20:30

And then there's this

https://goo.gl/maps/vb4rHrLYfTJ2

(If not obvious, look south from the intersection)

Princess Alice · 2017-03-04 04:32:38

Well...ok.

Princess Alice · 2017-03-04 06:47:39

It's not on Street View yet, but...the overhead sign at the US-33/OH-161/OH-257 roundabout in Dublin. Good gravy. Way too much information packed onto the sign to be able to get it all at a glance as you drive past.

Roadgeek Thread 2018 (It's Mostly Central Ohio)

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