Wallace's fiction is often concerned with irony. His essay "E Unibus Pluram: Television and U.S. Fiction,"[25] originally published in the small-circulation Review of Contemporary Fiction in 1993, proposes that television has an ironic influence on fiction writing, and urges literary authors to eschew TV's shallow rebelliousness: "I want to convince you that irony, poker-faced silence, and fear of ridicule are distinctive of those features of contemporary U.S. culture (of which cutting-edge fiction is a part) that enjoy any significant relation to the television whose weird pretty hand has my generation by the throat. I'm going to argue that irony and ridicule are entertaining and effective, and that at the same time they are agents of a great despair and stasis in U.S. culture, and that for aspiring fictionists they pose terrifically vexing problems." Wallace used many forms of irony, but focused on individuals' continued longing for earnest, unselfconscious experience and communication in a media-saturated society.[26] Literary critic Adam Kirsch said that Wallace's "self-conscious earnestness" and "hostility to irony defined a literary generation."
This. This is what interests me about that DFW article.
Imi, have you read a book called We Are Now Beginning Our Descent by James Meek?
It's not a brilliant story or anything and ordinarily I probably wouldn't recommend it to you, but it's what that article most strongly reminded me of.
(I found myself agreeing with much of the article, but I wasn't sure how I felt about the conclusion.)
I guess I can identify with DFW's feelings there because I tend to instinctively feel like there's too much irony in our culture and usually try to avoid it.
The other thing the article reminded me of was Baudrillard, but I'm not recommending him to anyone.
I have mixed feelings about irony, I suppose. Sometimes too much cynicism feels tedious and stifling.
Meek makes a valiant effort to transcend the kind of self-aware, recycled culture DFW described while still acknowledging it, but I wasn't convinced he really achieved that.
What's kind of bothered me for a long time is that I like much of the "apparatus" of postmodern culture: fragmentation, pastiche, self-reference, meta-whatever, that kind of thing; yet at the same time dislike the sort of irony, cynicism and shallowness that usually accompanies it. I'd like to have the former without the latter.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
@Fouria G, previous page: the bit about the clock "on the small varnished desk next to the Davenport" reminded me that I haven't posted any pictures of my clocks in a while. I might go drag up that thread again...
I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
Maybe it's because I'm in a bad mood lately, but for some reason I keep wanting to creatively express negative emotions. Also I keep lapsing into five-year-old mode and thinking about swear words in the process.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
My new debit card has my full legal name spelled out on it, including both middle names. Nobody ever uses both middle names!
You hear that, Bank I Used Previouisly? You should take a page out of Bank I Just Swtiched To's book!
I wonder what the SA thread about TVT would say about my writing now. Not the old stuff that even I've written off, the newer things like the Stuck rewrite.
They'd still probably think it'd be shit but hey, maybe the reception might improve a little. Then again, wishful thinking.
Maybe we need a HH Flip Out Room or angst thread. (This is probably a bad idea.)
Thinking some more, I suppose I should amend what I said earlier; I feel similarly except for the nagging suspicion that there's a certain level of shallowness that pervades much of culture itself, so looking to capture some depth beyond that feels slightly foolhardy, like a desperate attempt to recapture something that was never really lost. Even older novels seem oddly lacking in depth when read by a modern eye.
But that's cynical in itself, obviously.
You should revive the clock thread, CA. I liked that one.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
I wonder what the SA thread about TVT would say about my writing now. Not the old stuff that even I've written off, the newer things like the Stuck rewrite.
They'd still probably think it'd be shit but hey, maybe the reception might improve a little. Then again, wishful thinking.
Looking for criticism inside a thread where the main purpose seems to be mocking the members of another community seems like a baaaad idea.
Thinking some more, I suppose I should amend what I said earlier; I feel similarly except for the nagging suspicion that there's a certain level of shallowness that pervades much of culture itself, so looking to capture some depth beyond that feels slightly foolhardy, like a desperate attempt to recapture something that was never really lost. Even older novels seem oddly lacking in depth when read by a modern eye.
But that's cynical in itself, obviously.
To which my natural response is to wonder what defines "depth"...
Well, that's a tough question. And I gotta go for the night. See y'all.
No, I mean it refuses to acknowledge that it is called that, by you, or what year it was made in. It appears only as "Unknown Album" with the tracks labeled 1-9. Even editing the metadata didn't fix this.
Bizarrely, the slower version of "Camels" is credited...as part of District 79, for some freaking reason. Oh and it's listed three times, and none of those tracks actually play. Even though the ones on the normal album do.
@ Tre and Justice: Keep in mind that the goons in that thread are a mixed bunch. Some of the criticism there is sincere and informed in spite of the vicious delivery, some of it is spiteful and unscrupulous distortion to make people look bad, most of it is somewhere between the two.
But in any case, since their interest is primarily in terrible content, they're unlikely to take an interest in something unless it's truly dreadful, unless it's just a really easy target. If they're not heaping scorn on your work that's probably a good sign.
I think my old stuff is shit too, s'not that big a deal to me. The most recent time I was mentioned over there was May 4, so maybe my newer stuff is still considered bad. But y'know what? Even if I am a terrible writer it makes me happy, and even then, I can't be as bad as Tara Gilesbie.
Maybe we need a HH Flip Out Room or angst thread. (This is probably a bad idea.)
I think it'd be better if we just aired out our grievances in the main thread.
Part of the thing about the TVT angst thread was that it was generally a subcommunity dedicated to giving advice. Considering that our population is so small, there's really no need to divide the group.
Criticism taken from a place like that thread is inherently worthless.
If you want valid criticism, try asking for it. Worrying about what a bunch of people on another site think is only going to annoy and possibly depress you. Take it from someone who knows.
Karl pulled out a lighter and leaned back on the hood of the car. He flicked the mechanism open and lit up the cigarette casually dangling out of his mouth. The man in black sighed deeply as the clouds above him saw fit to start dropping rain, an
I found this in my documents folder. It's clearly a few years old. I think this is from when I had creative writing class at school, but I don't remember the context of it off-hand. I think this might have been a part of a novella I never finished called A World of Glass.
These days, I just write poems. As much as I hate to say it, I don't really have the attention span for long stories. I had one, but it got lost somewhere.
I at one point had written an entire continuity of stories of assorted length, the unfinished A World of Glass being the most recent.
There were also two short stories ("The House & The Beast", "A World Without Anger"), and another novella ("Paperfield"). They weren't connected very intricately though. The basic plot involved invaders from another dimension (The titular Beast in "The Beast" being the first to arrive) that inflicted weird dimensional warping wherever they went. It was an incredibly weird series and not very good even in my own opinion, but I enjoyed writing it.
Though, I still can't sit too close to windows without getting paranoid.
I wonder what the SA thread about TVT would say about my writing now. Not the old stuff that even I've written off, the newer things like the Stuck rewrite.
They'd still probably think it'd be shit but hey, maybe the reception might improve a little. Then again, wishful thinking.
The only way to get SA's opinion on your writing without (much) mockery is to pay ten dollars and post it in CC.
Remember back in the 50s when they'd record like Elvis singing YOU AIN'T NOTHIN BUT A HOUND DOG and then they'd turn the record over and reverse it and it was all NYERP NYERP NYERP NYERP NYERP and people were all like, "That is actually the voice of Satan coming from that song."
Lazuli: Now you've got me all curious. What sort of window-related craziness went on in the series?
On an unrelated note, when I was little, the obligatory scary nighttime monsters would come in through the windows in my mental images. I'm not entirely sure why I picked that over the classic choices of under the bed or in the closet.
I wonder what the SA thread about TVT would say about my writing now. Not the old stuff that even I've written off, the newer things like the Stuck rewrite.
They'd still probably think it'd be shit but hey, maybe the reception might improve a little. Then again, wishful thinking.
The only way to get SA's opinion on your writing without (much) mockery is to pay ten dollars and post it in CC.
That seems much more constructive (no pun intended) than "tricking" Goons to look at your stories in the hopes some of them will offer constructive criticism over commenting on how shit they are.
It also requires you to waste ten dollars, and then run the risk that they think it's shit anyway. Or at least decide to tell you that for whatever reason.
There are plenty of free sites with the exact same purpose.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
^^That's a pretty decent point. I'm sure SA has plenty of peeps who are good at offering constructive criticism, but other people will certainly do it for a sum of zero dollars.
Comments
It's not a brilliant story or anything and ordinarily I probably wouldn't recommend it to you, but it's what that article most strongly reminded me of.
(I found myself agreeing with much of the article, but I wasn't sure how I felt about the conclusion.)
I guess I can identify with DFW's feelings there because I tend to instinctively feel like there's too much irony in our culture and usually try to avoid it.
I have mixed feelings about irony, I suppose. Sometimes too much cynicism feels tedious and stifling.
Meek makes a valiant effort to transcend the kind of self-aware, recycled culture DFW described while still acknowledging it, but I wasn't convinced he really achieved that.
Thinking some more, I suppose I should amend what I said earlier; I feel similarly except for the nagging suspicion that there's a certain level of shallowness that pervades much of culture itself, so looking to capture some depth beyond that feels slightly foolhardy, like a desperate attempt to recapture something that was never really lost. Even older novels seem oddly lacking in depth when read by a modern eye.
But that's cynical in itself, obviously.
You should revive the clock thread, CA. I liked that one.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
We really don't.
So I have finally gotten around to listening to D76, though for some reason, Windows Media Player refuses to categorize it.
Well, that's a tough question. And I gotta go for the night. See y'all.
No, I mean it refuses to acknowledge that it is called that, by you, or what year it was made in. It appears only as "Unknown Album" with the tracks labeled 1-9. Even editing the metadata didn't fix this.
Bizarrely, the slower version of "Camels" is credited...as part of District 79, for some freaking reason. Oh and it's listed three times, and none of those tracks actually play. Even though the ones on the normal album do.
This gives me ideas for the remix album actually.
But in any case, since their interest is primarily in terrible content, they're unlikely to take an interest in something unless it's truly dreadful, unless it's just a really easy target. If they're not heaping scorn on your work that's probably a good sign.
Good night, Imi.
I should head off for the night too. Night guys.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Part of the thing about the TVT angst thread was that it was generally a subcommunity dedicated to giving advice. Considering that our population is so small, there's really no need to divide the group.
Criticism taken from a place like that thread is inherently worthless.
If you want valid criticism, try asking for it. Worrying about what a bunch of people on another site think is only going to annoy and possibly depress you. Take it from someone who knows.
speaking of writing:
I found this in my documents folder. It's clearly a few years old. I think this is from when I had creative writing class at school, but I don't remember the context of it off-hand. I think this might have been a part of a novella I never finished called A World of Glass.
I haven't written anything in a long time.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
I at one point had written an entire continuity of stories of assorted length, the unfinished A World of Glass being the most recent.
There were also two short stories ("The House & The Beast", "A World Without Anger"), and another novella ("Paperfield"). They weren't connected very intricately though. The basic plot involved invaders from another dimension (The titular Beast in "The Beast" being the first to arrive) that inflicted weird dimensional warping wherever they went. It was an incredibly weird series and not very good even in my own opinion, but I enjoyed writing it.
Though, I still can't sit too close to windows without getting paranoid.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
I got about 3/5ths through a Touhou fanfic last year. At 20-30 pages in Word, it's the longest thing I've ever written.
I've also written one short story that I'm actually proud of.
Well I'm sort of proud of "A World Without Anger", if only because it managed to make my Creative Writing teacher cry.
The Invaders and their uncanny valley human clones The Proxies could both jump between transparent surfaces. Including window glass.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
It also requires you to waste ten dollars, and then run the risk that they think it's shit anyway. Or at least decide to tell you that for whatever reason.
There are plenty of free sites with the exact same purpose.
i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
Or you could.
Y'know
not do that.