The Trash Heap of the Heapers' Hangout

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  • TreTre
    edited 2015-07-10 04:11:29
    image
    Gotta say, though, for every piece of bullroar that's come out of OSC's mouth HPL probably has five quotes that are even worse.

    Fuck them both, but especially HPL. I'd renounce his existence entirely were Cthulhu anything less than Cthulhu.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    HPL was just absolutely awful about that shit.

    Like, Robert E. Howard was also a racist who grew up in the deep south, and he actually ended up reconsidering his views and easing up on them because he saw how Lovecraft sounded and didn't want to sound like that.
  • naney said:

    Kexruct said:

    "Overrated" is legitimately my least favorite criticism

    Literally all it means is "everyone but me is wrong."

    not exactly?

    it just means "i dont think that everyone is quite right"

    like, i think that Star Wars is a solid movie, well thought out, well executed. But it lacks the things that I think make for a truly great film. Many other people have different criteria, criteria which i can respect but do not agree with, which lead them to the conclusion that it is truly great.

    ergo in my estimation Star Wars is overrated
    My issue is that it always carries that implication regardless of intent.

    My Big Thing is that I really don't care for dismissiveness and it's a very dismissive term. It's also rather vague on top of that, barely less vague than saying "it's bad/mediocre/whatever"

  • kill living beings
    gatcha maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
  • edited 2015-07-10 04:14:13
    We can do anything if we do it together.
    Funnily enough, I don't quite feel the same way about H.P. Lovecraft that I do about Orson Scott Card.

    I wonder if it's just that Lovecraft isn't alive today, or if there's something else to it.
  • Well, Lovecraft was to my knowledge a very mentally ill person.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    It's probably the fact that he's long dead.
  • Kexruct said:

    Well, Lovecraft was to my knowledge a very mentally ill person.

    nah, he was just kinda neurotic
  • Oh, well then fuck 'im
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Well, Lovecraft was to my knowledge a very mentally ill person.
    Kexruct said:

    Well, Lovecraft was to my knowledge a very mentally ill person.



    nah, he was just kinda neurotic

  • TreTre
    edited 2015-07-10 04:22:00
    image
    For me "overrated" mostly means "the established public opinion on this Thing is more positive than my own feelings toward it", which I suppose is similar to how Naney describes it.

    Like, I say that the Call of Duty series is overrated because my own experiences with it haven't been nearly enough to justify the amount of praise the games have received from elsewhere (i.e. family members, the gaming press, fellow PlayStation users). If anything, I'm more wrong than the general gaming public is for this, but still, it's a conflict I've grown to realize I probably won't ever be able to come to terms with, which is fine.

    Same deal with "underrated".
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    he's dead and you're not supporting him by reading his stuff
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    I want to clarify that I'm not saying that reading Lovecraft makes you a bad person or anything, I'm just saying that if you want to be moralistic about people who like Ender's Game, you should probably be moralistic about people who like Lovecraft too.
  • Also mental illness doesn't really excuse being that kind of an asshole.

    Anyway, Lovecraft is at the point where he is more a force of cultural influence than anything else. I don't think I've ever read an actual Lovecraft book in my entire life.
  • edited 2015-07-10 04:25:51
    Touch the cow. Do it now.
    I will gladly read and enjoy Mr. Lovecraft's stories even though I do not agree with his views.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    China Mieville has a bust of Lovecraft he won as an award for something.

    He puts it behind him, and turns it around, so that he can make sure he's writing behind Lovecraft's back.
  • I have read everything Lovecraft wrote, including personal correspondence.
  • Odradek said:

    I want to clarify that I'm not saying that reading Lovecraft makes you a bad person or anything, I'm just saying that if you want to be moralistic about people who like Ender's Game, you should probably be moralistic about people who like Lovecraft too.

    Honestly i find OSC much more reprehensible than Lovecraft because OSC strikes me as a cruel, petty, cowardly sadist, whereas Lovecraft strikes me as an effete, deeply neurotic misanthrope who likes offending people.

    neither of those sorts of people are much fun to be with in person by and large, but they seem to me to be in very different ballparks in terms of badness.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Insight wankers don't believe that people, or nations exist, but they do believe Cthulhu exists and believe he is controlling SJWs to destroy ethics in game journalism and ruin video games.
  • plus generally speaking neurotic misanthropes write fun things, petty sadists less so
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    naney said:

    Odradek said:

    I want to clarify that I'm not saying that reading Lovecraft makes you a bad person or anything, I'm just saying that if you want to be moralistic about people who like Ender's Game, you should probably be moralistic about people who like Lovecraft too.

    Honestly i find OSC much more reprehensible than Lovecraft because OSC strikes me as a cruel, petty, cowardly sadist, whereas Lovecraft strikes me as an effete, deeply neurotic misanthrope who likes offending people.

    neither of those sorts of people are much fun to be with in person by and large, but they seem to me to be in very different ballparks in terms of badness.
    Nah, it's about the same.
  • edited 2015-07-10 04:30:42

    it seems that we disagree then
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Also goon logic dictates that only pedophiles like Rosemary's Baby.
  • naney said:

    plus generally speaking neurotic misanthropes write fun things

    Some people are good at writing and happen to be neurotic misanthropes, most neurotic misanthropes aren't good at writing, because most people aren't good at writing.
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    FWIW, I agree with Naney here.
  • The romanticizing of misanthropy and a loathing of the human race on the whole continues to disturb me.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    Well I guess I'm just stupid then.
  • naney said:

    plus generally speaking neurotic misanthropes write fun things

    Some people are good at writing and happen to be neurotic misanthropes, most neurotic misanthropes aren't good at writing, because most people aren't good at writing.
    I meant to imply a "within the group of people who can write effectively" there, my bad
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    to be fair, humanity does make itself rather loathable
  • Odradek said:

    Well I guess I'm just stupid then.

    nah we just disagree

  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    disagreeing over which bigot is the most reprehensible does not make you stupid
  • it's not like this is a thing with a clear cut either/or answer here
  • edited 2015-07-10 04:34:23
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    anyway i don't hold it against anyone if they like OSC's writing, i just don't feel inclined to buy his books myself
  • naney said:

    naney said:

    plus generally speaking neurotic misanthropes write fun things

    Some people are good at writing and happen to be neurotic misanthropes, most neurotic misanthropes aren't good at writing, because most people aren't good at writing.
    I meant to imply a "within the group of people who can write effectively" there, my bad
    Fair.
    Odradek said:

    Well I guess I'm just stupid then.

    No, you're right.

    We give certain artists a pass because we like their work and other artists don't get that pass. It's dumb but that's just how we are as people.

    You see it a lot in hip-hop. DMX is actually like a dangerous person not to mention a violent homophobe but people love him.
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    The hate for Ender's Game just has this moralistic patronizing hectoring tone that I dislike, even though I can totally get behind either not liking it, or not wanting to support it because OSC is terrible.
  • to be fair, humanity does make itself rather loathable

    If we are to hold humanity collectively responsible for the crimes of every individual human and group of humans than we must also hold humanity collectively responsible for the triumphs of every individual human and group of humans.

    I feel like it's very, very silly to focus only on things like war and oppression when we as a species have a 5,000-year history that spans thousands and thousands of different things, any of which you could spend a lifetime studying.
  • hating DMX would involve hating Ruff Ryder's Anthem and im not sure if many people could do that
  • kill living beings
    OSC is a living target of dis like
  • Touch the cow. Do it now.
    who said anything about war and oppression?
  • Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
    I like Lovecraft.

    But if I had a time machine, I'd go back in time and punch him in the face. Just to say that I could. I'd also get an autograph.

    Not sure in which order I should do these things.
  • kill living beings
    and he just KEEPS WRITING THINGS

    ender's game is kind of creepy/bad but it's not obviously apparent generally, but then he writes weird shit like Empire or whatever it is
  • naney said:

    hating DMX would involve hating Ruff Ryder's Anthem and im not sure if many people could do that

    It's a good song.

    Like don't get me wrong, he makes good music, but I wouldn't want to be near him.

    Same with Busta Rhymes, RiFF RAFF, Cam'Ron

    list goes on.
  • i was going to write out a quote from that song here but i cant think of a line in that song that does not have the n word and i dont think im allowed to type that
  • My dreams exceed my real life

    to be fair, humanity does make itself rather loathable



    If we are to hold humanity collectively responsible for the crimes of every individual human and group of humans than we must also hold humanity collectively responsible for the triumphs of every individual human and group of humans.

    I feel like it's very, very silly to focus only on things like war and oppression when we as a species have a 5,000-year history that spans thousands and thousands of different things, any of which you could spend a lifetime studying.
    Humanism in this sense appears, for instance, in Cocteau’s story Round the World in 80 Hours, in which one of the characters declares, because he is flying over mountains in an airplane, “Man is magnificent!” This signifies that although I personally have not built aeroplanes, I have the benefit of those particular inventions and that I personally, being a man, can consider myself responsible for, and honoured by, achievements that are peculiar to some men. It is to assume that we can ascribe value to man according to the most distinguished deeds of certain men. That kind of humanism is absurd, for only the dog or the horse would be in a position to pronounce a general judgment upon man and declare that he is magnificent, which they have never been such fools as to do – at least, not as far as I know. But neither is it admissible that a man should pronounce judgment upon Man
  • naney said:

    i was going to write out a quote from that song here but i cant think of a line in that song that does not have the n word and i dont think im allowed to type that

    DMX is pretty guilty of using profanity to pad his raps.
  • We can do anything if we do it together.
    naney said:

    i was going to write out a quote from that song here but i cant think of a line in that song that does not have the n word and i dont think im allowed to type that

    You could just star it out.
  • kill living beings
    hearing powers ower powers powers powers powers
  • Odradek said:

    to be fair, humanity does make itself rather loathable



    If we are to hold humanity collectively responsible for the crimes of every individual human and group of humans than we must also hold humanity collectively responsible for the triumphs of every individual human and group of humans.

    I feel like it's very, very silly to focus only on things like war and oppression when we as a species have a 5,000-year history that spans thousands and thousands of different things, any of which you could spend a lifetime studying.
    Humanism in this sense appears, for instance, in Cocteau’s story Round the World in 80 Hours, in which one of the characters declares, because he is flying over mountains in an airplane, “Man is magnificent!” This signifies that although I personally have not built aeroplanes, I have the benefit of those particular inventions and that I personally, being a man, can consider myself responsible for, and honoured by, achievements that are peculiar to some men. It is to assume that we can ascribe value to man according to the most distinguished deeds of certain men. That kind of humanism is absurd, for only the dog or the horse would be in a position to pronounce a general judgment upon man and declare that he is magnificent, which they have never been such fools as to do – at least, not as far as I know. But neither is it admissible that a man should pronounce judgment upon Man


    If you have something to say to respond to what I said, you should say it yourself.
  • kill living beings
    ******
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    naney said:

    i was going to write out a quote from that song here but i cant think of a line in that song that does not have the n word and i dont think im allowed to type that

    You should always just replace it with brother or fucker, depending on context.
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