i do however think stories should be interpreted in context if you want to know how their intended readers will interpret them
Okay, take something like Pacific Rim, which is undeniably pretty light entertainment. Now, it's a good movie, but it doesn't require intense engagement with the viewer.
But it works because its broad themes are pretty positive; stuff about cultural cooperation and whatnot. Nothing heavy, but nothing wrong with it either.
But people rightfully criticized it for not having adequate female representation. Because a movie about diversity becomes slightly disingenuous without diversity of gender. It doesn't consciously say anything bad about female representation, but it does validate some people's sexist views. And that's incongruous to its overall theme.
Being escapist just means it's more accessible, and more accessible means regressive themes will influence more people. If anything, escapist fantasy has more of a responsibility to not validate regressive ideas. It's sort of like how people think you can just sit a kid in front of anything and it's okay because children's entertainment has nothing substantial in it. But again, it's the opposite; you're working with an impressionable audience and you have a responsibility not to fuck it up.
Basically, people saw a book where a guy follows a woman around, watches her sleep, and doesn't let her talk to certain people and barely noticed it. That this didn't register is indicative of how we view relationships, and I think it's pretty unnerving that the series validates those forms of abuse.
i think a lot of people noticed this but figured it was ok in this instance because it was perfect Edward and he had his reasons
Right, and they'd see a news story about a guy stalking a girl, and they'd obviously not be okay with that, but what if this hypothetical reader's boyfriend was someone they viewed as a "perfect Edward," as young people with boyfriends tend to do?
it's bad, it's probably harmful, i just get tired of the way the internet embraces things that are equally problematic because nerdboys like them but the minute something written for teen girls becomes popular suddenly everyone's an activist
Being escapist just means it's more accessible, and more accessible means regressive themes will influence more people. If anything, escapist fantasy has more of a responsibility to not validate regressive ideas.
by this token you're proscribing a great deal of escapist fiction written for adults who certainly don't want to be stalked/raped irl and who know perfectly well that fiction is not reality
Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
I actually have no idea who's arguing what. That probably means that I'm tired.
I have an extreme dislike of Divergent, and someone pointed out to me that it's no more illogical than Judge Dredd, that I probably didn't like it because it was female-coded, and they're probably right.
it's bad, it's probably harmful, i just get tired of the way the internet embraces things that are equally problematic because nerdboys like them but the minute something written for teen girls becomes popular suddenly everyone's an activist
I said this before, and I'll say it again:
I actually do agree that the hate towards things like Twlight is somewhat overblown. I still think that trying to defend stuff like that (however half-heartedly) is going entirely the wrong direction, though.
The way you should be handling this stuff is to try to point out how it isn't really that much different from the stuff nerds love, and that it just happens to not hide the troublesome aspects with a veneer of professionalism and spectacle.
Being escapist just means it's more accessible, and more accessible means regressive themes will influence more people. If anything, escapist fantasy has more of a responsibility to not validate regressive ideas.
by this token you're proscribing a great deal of escapist fiction written for adults who certainly don't want to be stalked/raped irl and who know perfectly well that fiction is not reality
jsyk
Media affects how we view the world. Twilight presents harmful ideas and even if adults aren't as impressionable they still absorb those ideas in some respect.
It's the same concept as rape culture; everyone SAYS that rape is bad, but the overarching culture constantly tries to downplay it. So Stephanie Meyer probably "knows" that stalking is bad, but she frames stalkery actions as okay because she didn't recognize them as being stalkery.
all kinds of gross and socially regressive things are tolerated when they happen in pornography aimed at straight male audiences, and to object to this is liable to get you accused of being a sex-negative prude trying to ruin other people's fun
apparently this principle does not apply to escapist sexual fantasies written for women
I don't like porn, either. And I don't like Duke Nuke Forever or Call of Duty or any other sort of machodudebro pandering. And I fully understand that most of Twilight's hate came from people who hated the feminine elements of it and not the actual problems. I'm not on their side.
i just don't like when people treat audiences like they're sponges
I don't think it's a 1:1 thing where people will always imitate what they see. But people can be influenced by media. It's just a fact. And if they couldn't be, media would have little reason to foster progressive messages or do anything beyond pander and indulge.
a lot of my friends at school liked those books and none of them are or were idiots
But understanding media and liking Twilight tend to not go together- not that I think you HAVE to hate it to understand media just that there's a very close correlation.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Like I could understand if you wanted to keep your apartment complex separate from the other one to cut down on traffic
But actually building the road and then forbidding people to use it just seems insulting, somehow
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Comments
But it works because its broad themes are pretty positive; stuff about cultural cooperation and whatnot. Nothing heavy, but nothing wrong with it either.
But people rightfully criticized it for not having adequate female representation. Because a movie about diversity becomes slightly disingenuous without diversity of gender. It doesn't consciously say anything bad about female representation, but it does validate some people's sexist views. And that's incongruous to its overall theme.
Being escapist just means it's more accessible, and more accessible means regressive themes will influence more people. If anything, escapist fantasy has more of a responsibility to not validate regressive ideas. It's sort of like how people think you can just sit a kid in front of anything and it's okay because children's entertainment has nothing substantial in it. But again, it's the opposite; you're working with an impressionable audience and you have a responsibility not to fuck it up.
it's bad, it's probably harmful, i just get tired of the way the internet embraces things that are equally problematic because nerdboys like them but the minute something written for teen girls becomes popular suddenly everyone's an activist
by this token you're proscribing a great deal of escapist fiction written for adults who certainly don't want to be stalked/raped irl and who know perfectly well that fiction is not reality
jsyk
I actually do agree that the hate towards things like Twlight is somewhat overblown. I still think that trying to defend stuff like that (however half-heartedly) is going entirely the wrong direction, though.
The way you should be handling this stuff is to try to point out how it isn't really that much different from the stuff nerds love, and that it just happens to not hide the troublesome aspects with a veneer of professionalism and spectacle.
It's the same concept as rape culture; everyone SAYS that rape is bad, but the overarching culture constantly tries to downplay it. So Stephanie Meyer probably "knows" that stalking is bad, but she frames stalkery actions as okay because she didn't recognize them as being stalkery.
apparently this principle does not apply to escapist sexual fantasies written for women
sorry, that was over the line.
i just don't like when people treat audiences like they're sponges
it's been dead for years
people are also capable of thinking critically about things that they enjoy
the extent to which the media can nevertheless have an unconscious influence on viewers is controversial, i believe
i haven't conducted a survey
a lot of my friends at school liked those books and none of them are or were idiots
because thinking critically about it i find i enjoy it less than i did before
which is why it is probably not my fave
i haven't conducted a survey of that either
^ never seen it, i think i've heard it mentioned like once in an @Anonus post about fanboy movies a while back?
moo
AND THEN IT ROLLED AROUND AND I DIDN'T
Finally, I have been recognized for my ability to find stupid people on the internet
I was banned yesterday for describing capybaras as "stoic" but then I was unbanned today and made a moderator.
that's a great story, and congrats
This is actually good, because at least they know the source of the problems she's been having for most of her life now, and can deal with them.
Bad, not PhiSci, bad, not PhiSci, eh, PhiSci, not PhiSci, bad, who knows, badabadbad, Not PhiSci, badbadbadbadbad