And i'm trying to get myself out of the habit of thinking that because something is hard for me to stomach, that's because i'm deficient in some way.
i think it's a residue of the 'internet tough guy' mentality that i unwittingly allowed to influence my self-perception
There are topics that are hard for each of us to deal with. This happens to all of us. It is nothing to feel bad about.
If it seems like I don't have any, it's only because I don't talk about them. Or I find various ways to brush them off, humorously and/or self-effacingly.
@Pyridrym Glenn is talking about language and conversation, and the ways in which people react to 'difficult' subjects, and also earlier he was talking about cultural transmission and assimilation
and i am arguing with Glenn because that's what i do
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I really don't see what's wrong with the rule of "If you don't like it, walk away."
Unless one can convincingly argue that social harm is done by doing so.
If here (wherever here is) is where i want to be and want to enjoy being, why should i walk away?
Well do I have a choice when other people "invade" a space I call my "own"? That's assuming such a space even exists.
Not to mention, this is a social space. This is no one's own space. It's a fallacy to presume that this space is one that can necessarily produce satisfaction of one's desired sort, and especially a fallacy to presume that this space can do so without one's own input, and therefore unfair feel wronged by this space when it does not deliver such satisfaction.
I WANT to break down the whole notion of a scholarly elite or an "ivory tower". I WANT scholarly discourse to become mixed into normal discourse. Scholarly discourse deals with real-life issues -- so there's no reason that it should be shunted to the side and treated as "something that only those weirdos with funny robes and lots of books do".
We do ourselves a disservice to presume that certain topics or ways of discussing things are off-limits for ourselves.
i don't think maintaining a distinction between scholarly discourse and everyday conversation is the reason for avoiding touchy subjects.
Most people prefer to avoid them because they make people angry or upset, not because they're erudite or whatever.
I was trying to make a general statement that would encompass both socially touchy subjects and also highly technical subjects.
The technical ones are a different ballgame, sure, but the mere presumption that they are off-limits to so-called "laypersons" is still a bad thing, because it discourages said "laypersons" from trying to understand the world around them.
thank you for clarification... I wish I wasn't so slow toward understanding talks that are vague...
I tend to be too literals at times...
Sorry about that.
This is building off of a few earlier instances on a couple other threads where I was involved in a couple arguments about what was acceptable or not acceptable to post on a forum. Discussions of "cultural appropriation" and "culture war" somehow entered the fray at some point, as well.
I personally recommend not attempting to make sense of everything that I post. If it doesn't make sense, just pretend I'm shitposting. Because, that's what I do with everyone else's posts here. And because, honestly, I probably am shitposting, because it probably is shit I'm posting anyway.
this space collectively belongs to all of us and when one of us has something that makes us uncomfortable we can reasonably ask for that thing to be dropped and expect it to happen in most circumstances
this space collectively belongs to all of us and when one of us has something that makes us uncomfortable we can reasonably ask for that thing to be dropped and expect it to happen in most circumstances
I thought the correct thing to do when one sees something one doesn't like or want to talk about, is to walk away and exit that space (such as by going to another thread or forum or doing something else entirely).
i don't think we're going to find much in the way of common ground here, Glenn
i think our... premises? something like that... are different.
as to whose space this is, it's Anonymous Avenue's
And Klinotaxis, i'm sorry if all this is too trivial, but
Torture is shocking and disturbing and i hope the people responsible will be punished, but i'm not sure what good there is in us dropping everything to discuss it.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
this space collectively belongs to all of us and when one of us has something that makes us uncomfortable we can reasonably ask for that thing to be dropped and expect it to happen in most circumstances
And Klinotaxis, i'm sorry if all this is too trivial, but
Torture is shocking and disturbing and i hope the people responsible will be punished, but i'm not sure what good there is in us dropping everything to discuss it.
Us discussing it won't change what's happened.
oh i know, i don't mind if you don't. I just think your argument with Glenn is stupid and I will make lots of comparisons
is that there are no practical barriers between everything from silly memes and stupid puns to formal, scholarly treatments of conceptual and theoretical topics.
this space collectively belongs to all of us and when one of us has something that makes us uncomfortable we can reasonably ask for that thing to be dropped and expect it to happen in most circumstances
I thought the correct thing to do when one sees something one doesn't like or want to talk about, is to walk away and exit that space (such as by going to another thread or forum or doing something else entirely).
this space collectively belongs to all of us and when one of us has something that makes us uncomfortable we can reasonably ask for that thing to be dropped and expect it to happen in most circumstances
I thought the correct thing to do when one sees something one doesn't like or want to talk about, is to walk away and exit that space (such as by going to another thread or forum or doing something else entirely).
in a public space yes
but this isn't a public space
wait what
how is this -- a thread that the entire world can see on the internet -- not a public space
Because this space, to some degree, is considered to be a space that collectively belongs to the forumgoers, who are understood through social convention to be able to have a degree of informal control over what's going on.
like for example Mo didn't want to look at the main NSFW thread because i kept posting furry porn in there and he didn't want to see that, so I moved my furry porn posting elsewhere as it was the polite thing to do.
I think it kind of depends what exactly that thing that's making one uncomfortable is and whether it's likely to be a common reaction. And whether the space has a history of being generally "for" that kind of thing.
One doesn't go on Fetlife and then be grievously offended people are talking about this icky sex stuff everywhere. Because that's the community norm and purpose.
Here, I'd say this thread in particular has a history of being a general space used by the denizens of this forum for hanging out. There's a general expectation that topics that are likely to be divisive or offensive be taken elsewhere. In some cases, that elsewhere would be another thread on these forums, either a pre-existing or new one. In other cases, that place would be somewhere else entirely.
It seems to me that it bothers you, Glenn, that there's no way of not having grey areas or unknown areas in determining a priori what topics are acceptable?
^^ No, that doesn't bother me at all. It is, after all, how things work normally.
Perhaps I'm just still a little pissed off at the reactions I got -- especially from two specific users (whom I won't name on a public thread) -- who expressed a lot more outrage than I expected.
i'm sorry. i will endeavour not to argue with Glenn so much.
i think we care about a lot of the same things but have completely incompatible opinions on them. That is the issue here.
And also that i am not good at letting a subject drop.
For what it's worth, I don't mind arguing with you like this. You speak very civilly and calmly and I respect you for that.
But I totally agree that I'm at least partly to blame for perpetuating a topic that is causing other people annoyance, and I'm sorry about that.
If you want to take this to a different thread, feel free.
I was just expecting to for my own posts on this topic, in this thread, to be quickly filibustered over by other people posting about other things -- i.e. other people not caring or not wanting to hear of this and just posting something else on top.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Comments
I talk a big game about choosing the right words but I suck at doing so myself.
Did you see my post on the previous page?
If it seems like I don't have any, it's only because I don't talk about them. Or I find various ways to brush them off, humorously and/or self-effacingly.
and i am arguing with Glenn because that's what i do
And as of right now, I've done jack shit.
I wish I wasn't so slow toward understanding talks that are vague...
I tend to be too literals at times...
i don't think this is directly related to the previous argument, which admittedly, got repetitive and circular
In this instance, you might just be missing context... Glenn and i have been talking about this kind of stuff for a while, admittedly.
my little pony my little pony
rectal rehydration, peeps
Not to mention, this is a social space. This is no one's own space. It's a fallacy to presume that this space is one that can necessarily produce satisfaction of one's desired sort, and especially a fallacy to presume that this space can do so without one's own input, and therefore unfair feel wronged by this space when it does not deliver such satisfaction.
I was trying to make a general statement that would encompass both socially touchy subjects and also highly technical subjects.
The technical ones are a different ballgame, sure, but the mere presumption that they are off-limits to so-called "laypersons" is still a bad thing, because it discourages said "laypersons" from trying to understand the world around them.
This is building off of a few earlier instances on a couple other threads where I was involved in a couple arguments about what was acceptable or not acceptable to post on a forum. Discussions of "cultural appropriation" and "culture war" somehow entered the fray at some point, as well.
I personally recommend not attempting to make sense of everything that I post. If it doesn't make sense, just pretend I'm shitposting. Because, that's what I do with everyone else's posts here. And because, honestly, I probably am shitposting, because it probably is shit I'm posting anyway.
i think our... premises? something like that... are different.
as to whose space this is, it's Anonymous Avenue's
And Klinotaxis, i'm sorry if all this is too trivial, but
Torture is shocking and disturbing and i hope the people responsible will be punished, but i'm not sure what good there is in us dropping everything to discuss it.
Us discussing it won't change what's happened.
is that there are no practical barriers between everything from silly memes and stupid puns to formal, scholarly treatments of conceptual and theoretical topics.
but this isn't a public space
how is this -- a thread that the entire world can see on the internet -- not a public space
we can do unison riffing
i think we care about a lot of the same things but have completely incompatible opinions on them. That is the issue here.
And also that i am not good at letting a subject drop.
like for example Mo didn't want to look at the main NSFW thread because i kept posting furry porn in there and he didn't want to see that, so I moved my furry porn posting elsewhere as it was the polite thing to do.
Perhaps I'm just still a little pissed off at the reactions I got -- especially from two specific users (whom I won't name on a public thread) -- who expressed a lot more outrage than I expected.
For what it's worth, I don't mind arguing with you like this. You speak very civilly and calmly and I respect you for that.
But I totally agree that I'm at least partly to blame for perpetuating a topic that is causing other people annoyance, and I'm sorry about that.
If you want to take this to a different thread, feel free.
I was just expecting to for my own posts on this topic, in this thread, to be quickly filibustered over by other people posting about other things -- i.e. other people not caring or not wanting to hear of this and just posting something else on top.
So at this point my concern was more that other people were tired of hearing this stuff.
but yeah
Sorry for bringing it up again.
shitty pagetopper
fuck you, pagetopper
die, pagetopper
burn in hell, pagetopper