But it's not at all deliberate. It's an interpretation, and an interesting one, but I ask you to actually watch the movie and see if it's a genuine thematic through-line. Christopher Nolan is very obvious with what he theme he intends to express when he has one, and the theme you suggested would be too buried in subtext if it were intentional for me to believe it is.
Man, the whole Bane plot and the back-breaking and Catwoman and Batman burying their identities and the crazy death-cult and the weird fasho people's court and whatshisface going from cop to maybe-superhero - the whole thing's one big overstuffed "phoenix from the ashes" metaphor theme meal.
The problem is that Nolan wanted to present every other thing that popped into his head because I guess death/rebirth-as-transcendence ain't deep enough?
It's not really consistent, though, is it? It's just... things ending and other things happening as a result. The approach isn't consistent enough to call it a theme. In the case of the back breaking it also kind of hampers the movie too, by forcing Batman to go through the same arc he did at the beginning of the movie again.
Where Bruce Wayne once Batmanned because he thought he could save Gotham, here he's just lashing out because he subconsciously wants to die. The League of Shadows used to have grand ambitions of destroying societies that become too "corrupt" but now they only exist to enact suicidal revenge schemes against Batman. (Literally suicidal.) Waynecorp—intended by Thomas Wayne to fix Gotham—betrays Bruce as soon as he stops keeping a close eye on it, with one of his own Chairmen assisting Bane's takeover. Lying about Harvey Dent—the huge dramatic finale of the last movie—helped clean up Gotham's streets 8 years ago, but when Bane gets ahold of that information he uses it to undermine trust in Commissioner Gordon. Lucius Fox builds weapons to help Batman fight crime, and those same weapons wind up in Bane's hands. The big dumb plot device driving the last third of the movie is a nuclear fusion reactor (clean, renewable power, yay!) converted into a nuclear warhead—and when Bruce tries to hand over the shutdown switch to someone he can trust, it winds up in the hands of his worst enemy instead. Bane tries to break Bruce's spirit by shipping him off to that Middle Eastern prison, but instead the experience gives Bruce the resolve to take down the League. Selina was just supposed to be a single cog in Bane's plan—someone to dispose of once she had served her purpose—but she winds up joining Bruce and being instrumental in the League's defeat.
I don't think a theme can show up as subtext that much just by accident.
That's just intentions going awry. It's a rather basic plot point, and with a movie as twisty-turny as TDKR I'm sure there's a way to pick out other basic plot points that get repeated.
I think a good test is to take all those individual parts you listed and see if they could be in service of other themes just as much as they could be to the theme you stated.
And not only that, corruption of good intentions was a theme much better explored by the previous movie anyway. It was the basis of pretty much every character and scene in The Dark Knight- the entire movie was a battle for Harvey Dent's morality.
I would say that a major theme is "Knowing when to quit something is just as important as knowing when to start it", and intentions going awry is the specific way that the movie demonstrates why it's necessary for even good things to end.
But does it? I mean, wondering if Bane was secretly a force of net good by allowing Gotham to have its hero again and expose Harvey Dent and all that might be an interesting thought experiment but it's not really a theme of the movie, y'know?
Man is a most complex simple creature: see what he weaves, and how base his reasons for doing so.
Yeah, that I can agree with. Like I can look at most movies and know what each movie is most interested in communicating, and I can't do it with Rises.
Lilly: I knew that. I was just making a joke about Begins. I was not actually asking where the Scarecrow was.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
It's the weirdest thing. I know you posted a picture (I went and checked if it was a blank post), but for some reason my adblock is blocking the picture from showing up and it only does for a few pictures.
That's the funny thing about the Nolanverse compared to the original comics and nearly every other adaptation. For the first time, Batman's fighting finite battle against crime, not a never-ending one. In the first two movies, Bruce has a clear end goal of getting Gotham to the point where it can take care of itself, then settling down with Rachel. (He loses sight of that goal in Rises, and his character arc is about regaining that vision, so he can fight for the right reasons.) And he has meaningful victories that actually stick, even if the cost of those victories is high. In The Dark Knight, the mob is much worse shape than it was in Batman Begins, and the League of Shadows in Rises is an ideologically broken shadow of its former self. The Joker's terror campaign ultimately hurts the mob even more than it hurts Gotham PD. And, of course, Bruce retires and doesn't seem on-track to wind up as a bitter old man.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
It's the weirdest thing. I know you posted a picture (I went and checked if it was a blank post), but for some reason my adblock is blocking the picture from showing up and it only does for a few pictures.
It's the weirdest thing. I know you posted a picture (I went and checked if it was a blank post), but for some reason my adblock is blocking the picture from showing up and it only does for a few pictures.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
Well, considering Nickelback started in the 1990s, there's only one conclusion we can draw: Nickelback reduces crime!
Does anyone else feel they have relatively lenient taste regarding food?
I keep hearing people complaining about how the food they buy (especially in restaurants) is bland, or overseasoned, or overcooked, etc., but generally no comments about how something is okay.
Then again, something being "okay" is not usually a particularly noteworthy thing, so I guess we might collectively take it for granted (i.e. there's a sampling bias in favor of notably bad/good food).
Still, for example, I know my parents will complain about allegedly shitty food at a Chinese restaurant that I think tastes just fine.
Comments
I'm now old enough that I see stuff and I'm like "this really shouldn't be in a kids' show".
Oh well.
Maybe Twitter doesn't like hotlinking? I dunno.
I guess. I don't really have a better explanation.
Maulding
and people say twitter is bad
I keep hearing people complaining about how the food they buy (especially in restaurants) is bland, or overseasoned, or overcooked, etc., but generally no comments about how something is okay.
Then again, something being "okay" is not usually a particularly noteworthy thing, so I guess we might collectively take it for granted (i.e. there's a sampling bias in favor of notably bad/good food).
Still, for example, I know my parents will complain about allegedly shitty food at a Chinese restaurant that I think tastes just fine.
starring
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Team Ostro