Did the Transformers films really have any real influence?
The Raimi Spider-Man films were the ones that started us down this path in the first place (although they were apparently a lot better than most of what followed).
Bayformers just showed Hollywood that films following that formula didn't have to be good to make money. That was what really opened the spigot, to be sure, but there were other films like it in production at the time that would've had the same influence. For the rest of your argument, I refer to what Sredni said earlier, since I agree with everything he said.
Other things could have had a massive influence on Hollywood, but it is Transformers that did.
The MCU and The Dark Knight were already in production, and I'd argue those have had a good deal more influence on the current state of Hollywood than Bayformers has had.
I'm not talking about comparatives here. I'm saying Transformers is terrible and continues to have a noticeable impact on the medium, and it makes sense that people dealing with popular movies have every right to talk about that continuing negative impact.
Do we have to listen to those people if we don't want to, though?
And again, that's the ideal, but I only got into this because Odradek expressed annoyance with the fact that people continue to bash them. My big point is that the least helpful thing to do in the case of these movies is to silence critical discussion, and the only thing that's even within the remotest reaches of plausibility that can be silenced is the critical discussion, because the kinds of people who paid the largest portion of its 2.6 billion dollar gross are not going to be compelled to shut up about it.
And again, that's the ideal, but I only got into this because Odradek expressed annoyance with the fact that people continue to bash them. My big point is that the least helpful thing to do in the case of these movies is to silence critical discussion, and the only thing that's even within the remotest reaches of plausibility that can be silenced is the critical discussion, because the kinds of people who paid the largest portion of its 2.6 billion dollar gross are not going to be compelled to shut up about it.
Did the Transformers films really have any real influence?
The Raimi Spider-Man films were the ones that started us down this path in the first place (although they were apparently a lot better than most of what followed).
Bayformers just showed Hollywood that films following that formula didn't have to be good to make money. That was what really opened the spigot, to be sure, but there were other films like it in production at the time that would've had the same influence. For the rest of your argument, I refer to what Sredni said earlier, since I agree with everything he said.
Other things could have had a massive influence on Hollywood, but it is Transformers that did.
The MCU and The Dark Knight were already in production, and I'd argue those have had a good deal more influence on the current state of Hollywood than Bayformers has had.
I'm not talking about comparatives here. I'm saying Transformers is terrible and continues to have a noticeable impact on the medium, and it makes sense that people dealing with popular movies have every right to talk about that continuing negative impact.
Do we have to listen to those people if we don't want to, though?
I'm actually starting to agree with Naney here.
...when did I ever say that anyone had to listen to anyone?
Calm the fuck down, I didn't know that you moved on in the minute it took me to make those posts and if someone misunderstood what I was saying I feel like I have the right to clarify myself.
Did the Transformers films really have any real influence?
The Raimi Spider-Man films were the ones that started us down this path in the first place (although they were apparently a lot better than most of what followed).
Bayformers just showed Hollywood that films following that formula didn't have to be good to make money. That was what really opened the spigot, to be sure, but there were other films like it in production at the time that would've had the same influence. For the rest of your argument, I refer to what Sredni said earlier, since I agree with everything he said.
Def agreed with this and with what Sredni said.
Kex, you're arguing that Bayformers was a new phenomenon, but I see it as just the next step in a progression that was already underway. Effects-packed, super-explodey action films were a thing already. (When V for Vendetta came out, I recall someone saying "Michael Bay only wishes he could blow stuff up this beautifully.") Pirates of the Caribbean already demonstrated that anything could be adapted to film (a movie based on an amusement park ride? really?). And if you compare the three entries in that series, you'll notice that each has more SFX and explosions than the one before it. X-Men: The Last Stand proved that a movie could get savaged by critics and by word-of-mouth, but still pull in big bucks thanks to existing audience goodwill. Of course that had disastrous long-term effects on the X-Men film franchise, but those weren't apparent at the time. Even the much-maligned shakey-camera fight scenes were done before in Batman Begins and The Bourne Supremacy.
No I'm not. I'm arguing that if nothing else, they aren't going to just leave the collective consciousness any time soon- and just wanting people to shut up about them isn't going to help anything- and because of that it makes sense that the critical discussion of them has continued for so long.
You guys wonder why I get flustered and upset so often? It's because every single time I make a point everyone has to take issue with it and I end up having to argue with several different people and my point gets muddled and it drags on forever and by the time most people are sick of it there are always one or two people left who still want to talk about it and then Naney complains about me always shoving this stuff in his face.
WE ARE BRUTAL DISRESPECT AND FUCK THE BUSH ADMINISTRATIOOOOON
Yes.
Hmm. How many hardcore bands could take their names from Throbbing Gristle tracks...?
National Affront, Slug Bait, Maggot Death, Discipline, Flesheaters, D.O.A. (already exist!), Blood On The Floor, Wall Of Sound, Urge To Kill, Mother Spunk, E. Coli, We Hate You...
No I'm not. I'm arguing that if nothing else, they aren't going to just leave the collective consciousness any time soon- and just wanting people to shut up about them isn't going to help anything- and because of that it makes sense that the critical discussion of them has continued for so long.
You guys wonder why I get flustered and upset so often? It's because every single time I make a point everyone has to take issue with it and I end up having to argue with several different people and my point gets muddled and it drags on forever and by the time most people are sick of it there are always one or two people left who still want to talk about it and then Naney complains about me always shoving this stuff in his face.
I've kind of instigated this twice, and I'm sorry.
It's always painful to see Touhou fan art with American flags for clothing, because Touhou has absolutely nothing to do with America. In fact, the only definitely "western" touhous as far as I know are Alice, Patchouli, Remilia, and Flandre.
From what I can tell, Touhou fan art basically does whatever it wants with the characters, no matter how crazy it is.
So it goes
the American Touhou fanart series is actually considered one of the better ones in the "genre", as I recall.
it's a series of pictures by some Goon or another that recast the Touhou characters as being various archetypes of American folklore, as opposed to Japanese folklore.
No I'm not. I'm arguing that if nothing else, they aren't going to just leave the collective consciousness any time soon- and just wanting people to shut up about them isn't going to help anything- and because of that it makes sense that the critical discussion of them has continued for so long.
You guys wonder why I get flustered and upset so often? It's because every single time I make a point everyone has to take issue with it and I end up having to argue with several different people and my point gets muddled and it drags on forever and by the time most people are sick of it there are always one or two people left who still want to talk about it and then Naney complains about me always shoving this stuff in his face.
I've kind of instigated this twice, and I'm sorry.
I accept your apology, then, and I apology for being huffy.
Did the Transformers films really have any real influence?
The Raimi Spider-Man films were the ones that started us down this path in the first place (although they were apparently a lot better than most of what followed).
Bayformers just showed Hollywood that films following that formula didn't have to be good to make money. That was what really opened the spigot, to be sure, but there were other films like it in production at the time that would've had the same influence. For the rest of your argument, I refer to what Sredni said earlier, since I agree with everything he said.
Other things could have had a massive influence on Hollywood, but it is Transformers that did.
The MCU and The Dark Knight were already in production, and I'd argue those have had a good deal more influence on the current state of Hollywood than Bayformers has had.
I'm not talking about comparatives here. I'm saying Transformers is terrible and continues to have a noticeable impact on the medium, and it makes sense that people dealing with popular movies have every right to talk about that continuing negative impact.
Do we have to listen to those people if we don't want to, though?
I'm actually starting to agree with Naney here.
...when did I ever say that anyone had to listen to anyone?
You never really said that, but you sometimes end up inadvertently implying that when you drag out discussions because you feel the need to defend your favourite reviewers. You don't need to justify the people you read to other people. The enjoyment/enlightenment you get out of them should be justification enough to yourself.
I admit that, sometimes, it stings that other people don't see what you see in something, but that's why they're not you. For example, I disagree with what Naney has said about Todd in the past, but I realize that if I were to go on about it, I would be trying to force him down his throat.
Nobody enjoys things being forced down their throats, Kex. That doesn't mean you can't mention them when you feel like they bring a valid point to a discussion, or even that you can't defend them when you feel like they're misrepresenting the person and/or their argument. It just means that you sometimes just have to realize that other people are different from you, and that's that.
And, like, I know it's annoying seeing something that doesn't interest you when you want to talk about anything else, but it's not like I can just leave when it feels like everyone's trying to have a swing at my opinion.
^I only felt the need to reply because people were implying that the critical discussion about Transformers needed to stop entirely. I didn't bring up any reviewers this entire time.
And, like, I know it's annoying seeing something that doesn't interest you when you want to talk about anything else, but it's not like I can just leave when it feels like everyone's trying to have a swing at my opinion.
Surely you can understand why I'd feel compelled to defend myself regardless, though?
Yeah, cuz I used to be the same way.
Not to get all "lemme share with ya a life lesson, son" on you, but I was.
But like, you have to understand that film criticism is not relevant to the interests of too many people here, so there is a contingent that would prefer we not discuss movies at length when no one here likes them (unless someone here does like the Bayformers movies? I don't). That fact is entirely separate from anyone's opinion of you as a person.
^^^^ You're not defending yourself. You're defending a position about something trivial like your life depends on it and sometimes when you're doing it you resort to all-out intellectual bullying to do so. You weren't quite doing that in this instance, but it's not like your pride is on the line here. You are allowed to say, "Fine, I disagree; it's not that important," and you won't be looked down upon for doing it. No-one expects you to change your opinion because they don't share it.
^ Unthinkingly drank yeast and sugary liquid. Yay, belching...
nobody was a huge dick to anyone and nobody here likes the Transformers movies
i'm watching Holland v Costa Rica, still 0-0
what's wrong, Mo?
I went to my mom's 25th Anniversary High School Reunion. It was hot, the food was expensive and bad, and there were a bunch of freakin' lunatics there.
Some old dude was really loudly ranting to two complete strangers about the time he was almost convicted of pedophilia and how he thinks Obama and the liberalz are ruining this country.
Direct quote, from memory, spoilered cuz it's gross:
Spoiler:
"two dudes can go around slickin' on each other but I'M the pervert cuz I want to fuck a girl in short shorts just because she happens to be in high school"
some other lady was screaming her head off at her grandkid to the point where the kid was visibly scared. idk, people are insane.
Look, I was willing to stop and put it aside a page ago, but then people brought it back up, then other people started complaining when I responded.
I apologize for prolonging this by making my posts on the last page.
I just made my first post right before people started yelling "SHUT UP!", and I would've felt like a jerk if I left you hanging. You were arguing in good faith, after all, and you shouldn't be punished for the actions of others.
I still stand by what I said with my last post, though, even if that's not quite what happened this time.
He had enough sense to get one of the nametags and fill it out with his name and class year though, so he wasn't just some random guy who stumbled unto the premises. Honestly I think that makes it worse.
Kex I'm sorry but it's really hard to take you seriously with that avatar cuz I picture it saying everything you're typing in a really high pitched squeaky voice.
Comments
Kex, you're arguing that Bayformers was a new phenomenon, but I see it as just the next step in a progression that was already underway. Effects-packed, super-explodey action films were a thing already. (When V for Vendetta came out, I recall someone saying "Michael Bay only wishes he could blow stuff up this beautifully.") Pirates of the Caribbean already demonstrated that anything could be adapted to film (a movie based on an amusement park ride? really?). And if you compare the three entries in that series, you'll notice that each has more SFX and explosions than the one before it. X-Men: The Last Stand proved that a movie could get savaged by critics and by word-of-mouth, but still pull in big bucks thanks to existing audience goodwill. Of course that had disastrous long-term effects on the X-Men film franchise, but those weren't apparent at the time. Even the much-maligned shakey-camera fight scenes were done before in Batman Begins and The Bourne Supremacy.
it's a series of pictures by some Goon or another that recast the Touhou characters as being various archetypes of American folklore, as opposed to Japanese folklore.
and lifted one hand to the sky.
like going 'la la la can't hear you'
i realize this doesn't help at all
Not to get all "lemme share with ya a life lesson, son" on you, but I was.
But like, you have to understand that film criticism is not relevant to the interests of too many people here, so there is a contingent that would prefer we not discuss movies at length when no one here likes them (unless someone here does like the Bayformers movies? I don't). That fact is entirely separate from anyone's opinion of you as a person.
I've had a horrible day, how's everyone else doin.
i'm watching Holland v Costa Rica, still 0-0
what's wrong, Mo?
Some old dude was really loudly ranting to two complete strangers about the time he was almost convicted of pedophilia and how he thinks Obama and the liberalz are ruining this country.
Direct quote, from memory, spoilered cuz it's gross:
some other lady was screaming her head off at her grandkid to the point where the kid was visibly scared. idk, people are insane.
That sounds painful, Mo.
He had enough sense to get one of the nametags and fill it out with his name and class year though, so he wasn't just some random guy who stumbled unto the premises. Honestly I think that makes it worse.
River Brothers or something I think.
Though my extended family is like, half garbage, but that's another topic for another day.
My uncle Scott (the police chief) was there. Eesh.