well, that was a more interesting though more muddy answer than i expected.
a little clarifying bit
the hypothetical heterosexual biological male person isn't imagining himself as "generically" female, but instead he is imagining/fantasizing himself as specifically that one female person, whom he is also attracted to.
...well, actually, does it change anything, if said male person imagines/fantasizes himself as more than one such female person, at different points in time? (though never just being female by itself)
----
in any case, my whole thing re gender roles and stuff was basically, i don't like gender stereotypes and gender roles and sexism; things like even having to notice that there are fewer girls than boys growing up to become (say) engineers, or having "action girl" as a thing that people think specially about (rather than not batting an eye to it), are (in my opinion) indicative that we need to think less through a lens of gender and be more gender-neutral (gender-agnostic? i'm probably getting in too deep into crazy terminology here) in the assumptions and judgements we make about people.
basically, rather than
"boys shouldn't be allowed to play with dolls, because dolls are girls' toys"
OR
"boys should be allowed to play with dolls, because they should be allowed to play with both boys' and girls' toys"
i think we should instead be saying
"boys should be allowed to play with dolls, because dolls are just toys, and are not inherently masculine or feminine"
and that's what i meant by "gender being a thing" being something i disagree with and oppose.
well, that was a more interesting though more muddy answer than i expected.
a little clarifying bit
the hypothetical heterosexual biological male person isn't imagining himself as "generically" female, but instead he is imagining/fantasizing himself as specifically that one female person, whom he is also attracted to.
...well, actually, does it change anything, if said male person imagines/fantasizes himself as more than one such female person, at different points in time? (though never just being female by itself)
^^ no, actually, i'm just trying to figure out whether my "favorite characters" list on MAL says that i'm a stupid horndog or says that i'm thinking of something greater than just attractiveness
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
hmm, I will say it this way: I imagined myself being a lot of girls, but most girls, I never had such thoughts about. Females are too diverse for any but a minority for me to look at and think "she is really cool; I will look up to her." I did not have quite the same feelings toward males, even when I admired them and wanted to emulate them in some way.
I agree that dolls are a pointlessly gendered toy that boys and girls should be allowed to enjoy, and I think that restrictive gender roles are bullshit. I don't even like *any* gender-specific rules, barring things that are purely physical (i.e. I don't mind if women have to cover their chests in most public places, because female breasts are secondary sex organs). I believe in a profound difference in naturally-occurring gender identity and relevant aspects of sexuality, compared to societal "gender roles."
Yeah I just figured I'd ignore that question because wut.
well i was just wondering whether there was any difference between something being a one-off event and a consistent pattern.
also, for the record, not everything in those hypothetical scenarios actually describes me. (no, i'm not telling which.) i actually did genuinely want to try get a feel for how the concept of gender identity is defined/delineated.
Mmhm... but you seem to be fixating on the idea of 'imagining being a woman you find sexually attractive', which isn't really anything to do with anything.
what if a person (of a given biological gender) imagines/fantasizes oneself to be a person of the opposite (displayed/biological) gender that that first person DOESN'T find sexually attractive?
i mean, i'm probably blaring up the wrong tree here, but since you suggested it, i might as well clear up this possibility too
Mmhm... but you seem to be fixating on the idea of 'imagining being a woman you find sexually attractive', which isn't really anything to do with anything.
And also way too easily seen as projecting some weird fantasy on dysphoric people.
Not your intention, I know, but pretty "whaaaaat" inducing.
Mmhm... but you seem to be fixating on the idea of 'imagining being a woman you find sexually attractive', which isn't really anything to do with anything.
And also way too easily seen as projecting some weird fantasy on dysphoric people.
Not your intention, I know, but pretty "whaaaaat" inducing.
open question: should i shut up about all this already?
...actually, never mind that, the answer's yes, before i put several more feet in my mouth by accident
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
I think that imagining yourself as a woman you think is attractive always means something about your psyche. The physical attractiveness is an ideal of self-image, which is an incredibly big part of gender identity, I think.
More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
I think that you guys are shutting up GMH for the wrong reasons in this case. All of the females I fantasized about being were ones I thought of as attractive, and it wasn't really a sexual thing. Why wouldn't someone with gender dysphoria fantasize about being someone else?
I think that you guys are shutting up GMH for the wrong reasons in this case. All of the females I fantasized about being were ones I thought of as attractive, and it wasn't really a sexual thing. Why wouldn't someone with gender dysphoria fantasize about being someone else?
My main issue with GMH is his inability to realize that not every situation is black and white.
For the record, I am in a bit of a sour mood tonight, but not because of this discussion.
I think that imagining yourself as a woman you think is attractive always means something about your psyche. The physical attractiveness is an ideal of self-image, which is an incredibly big part of gender identity, I think.
That's a valid argument. I just thought that the way he asked the question was rather odd.
Comments
the truth makes that look a good deal funnier in my modest opinion
a little clarifying bit
the hypothetical heterosexual biological male person isn't imagining himself as "generically" female, but instead he is imagining/fantasizing himself as specifically that one female person, whom he is also attracted to.
...well, actually, does it change anything, if said male person imagines/fantasizes himself as more than one such female person, at different points in time? (though never just being female by itself)
----
in any case, my whole thing re gender roles and stuff was basically, i don't like gender stereotypes and gender roles and sexism; things like even having to notice that there are fewer girls than boys growing up to become (say) engineers, or having "action girl" as a thing that people think specially about (rather than not batting an eye to it), are (in my opinion) indicative that we need to think less through a lens of gender and be more gender-neutral (gender-agnostic? i'm probably getting in too deep into crazy terminology here) in the assumptions and judgements we make about people.
basically, rather than OR i think we should instead be saying and that's what i meant by "gender being a thing" being something i disagree with and oppose.
just looks gently happy
down with dirty explanations of things
support thinking clean
I agree.
There's an organization called Let Toys Be Toys that takes this line.
it's good clean fun
I agree that dolls are a pointlessly gendered toy that boys and girls should be allowed to enjoy, and I think that restrictive gender roles are bullshit. I don't even like *any* gender-specific rules, barring things that are purely physical (i.e. I don't mind if women have to cover their chests in most public places, because female breasts are secondary sex organs). I believe in a profound difference in naturally-occurring gender identity and relevant aspects of sexuality, compared to societal "gender roles."
pictured: a possible sighting of glennmag and usharvey, along with an unrelated person wearing a dark blue shirt, and a trash can
also, for the record, not everything in those hypothetical scenarios actually describes me. (no, i'm not telling which.) i actually did genuinely want to try get a feel for how the concept of gender identity is defined/delineated.
there's also the poss--
well, let's go with that next then
what if a person (of a given biological gender) imagines/fantasizes oneself to be a person of the opposite (displayed/biological) gender that that first person DOESN'T find sexually attractive?
i mean, i'm probably blaring up the wrong tree here, but since you suggested it, i might as well clear up this possibility too
...actually, never mind that, the answer's yes, before i put several more feet in my mouth by accident
become a particle beam instead
is that weird
I wasn't trying to insinuate anything, I was just a bit nonplussed.