Yes, the fact that it's a female gendered term is probably a bad thing that we should fix. But anyone who's read extensively on the topic knows that it's less about the character's attributes and more about the character's place in the story and how he/she is written.
And Batman's only a Mary Sue in, like, the Jeph Loeb comics.
Yes, the fact that it's a female gendered term is probably a bad thing that we should fix. But anyone who's read extensively on the topic knows that it's less about the character's attributes and more about the character's place in the story and how he/she is written.
And Batman's only a Mary Sue in, like, the Jeph Loeb comics.
Thing is, the term "Mary Sue" is only ever used to dismiss female characters.
she is the world's most well-known and bestselling author, is a guitar virtuoso, made the most popular Mario fangame ever (Black Candles v. 5,000,000) and has enormous jubblies
Mary Sue accusations can be sexist but this is not intrinsically the case
Yes, yes, but can we all agree that there's a difference between the average Batman story and the average teenage wish-fulfillment fantasy/wet dream?
Not really, to be quite honest. The best Batman stories are the ones that acknowledge how much of a damaged person is. The problem, also, isn't that he's a wish fulfillment character. The problem is that he's a wish fulfillment character under the pretense of realism.
Mary Sue accusations can be sexist but this is not intrinsically the case
Yes, yes, but can we all agree that there's a difference between the average Batman story and the average teenage wish-fulfillment fantasy/wet dream?
Not really, to be quite honest. The best Batman stories are the ones that acknowledge how much of a damaged person is. The problem, also, isn't that he's a wish fulfillment character. The problem is that he's a wish fulfillment character under the pretense of realism.
Mary Sue accusations can be sexist but this is not intrinsically the case
Yes, yes, but can we all agree that there's a difference between the average Batman story and the average teenage wish-fulfillment fantasy/wet dream?
Not really, to be quite honest. The best Batman stories are the ones that acknowledge how much of a damaged person is. The problem, also, isn't that he's a wish fulfillment character. The problem is that he's a wish fulfillment character under the pretense of realism.
saying they both have problems is very different from saying that they are literally the same
I think Sora is a good example of a character who'd technically qualify as a "Mary Sue" but doesn't really fit the mold just because he has motives that you can empathize with.
empathy with characters varies a lot from person to person
Not as much as you might think. I said empathize, not sympathize. It's about clarity.
Like, take the film version of The Joker versus Bane. Bane wasn't necessarily a bad villain, but he was a much weaker villain than The Joker in part because none of his motives were clear until they were dramatically irrelevant, so you couldn't empathize.
i had a character i abandoned because she was a Mary Sue
i still feel kind of weird about that, since i'd devoted a lot of time to the character before i realized that she would be considered bad wish fulfillment
empathy with characters varies a lot from person to person
Not as much as you might think. I said empathize, not sympathize. It's about clarity.
Like, take the film version of The Joker versus Bane. Bane wasn't necessarily a bad villain, but he was a much weaker villain than The Joker in part because none of his motives were clear until they were dramatically irrelevant so you couldn't empathize.
empathy with characters varies a lot from person to person
Not as much as you might think. I said empathize, not sympathize. It's about clarity.
Like, take the film version of The Joker versus Bane. Bane wasn't necessarily a bad villain, but he was a much weaker villain than The Joker in part because none of his motives were clear until they were dramatically irrelevant so you couldn't empathize.
i had a character i abandoned because she was a Mary Sue
i still feel kind of weird about that, since i'd devoted a lot of time to the character before i realized that she would be considered bad wish fulfillment
literally all of my characters are women i would likely find attractive in some capacity how do you think i feel.
i had a character i abandoned because she was a Mary Sue
i still feel kind of weird about that, since i'd devoted a lot of time to the character before i realized that she would be considered bad wish fulfillment
I think it's fine as long as it's well written and framed appropriately; like I said before, Batman is at his worst when he's blatant wish fulfillment under the guise of "gritty realism," or when his wish fulfillment really reflects poorly on the kinds of people who'd want to be in his position.
i hated the batman movies and thought their version of the joker was stupid and that they made batman himself into a vehicle for the actor (i forget his name and am not about to look it up).
of course i think the batman comics are pretty bad too, so what do i know.
i had a character i abandoned because she was a Mary Sue
i still feel kind of weird about that, since i'd devoted a lot of time to the character before i realized that she would be considered bad wish fulfillment
literally all of my characters are women i would likely find attractive in some capacity how do you think i feel.
literally the moment of uncomfortable realization was when someone on TVT was like, 'is this a character you want to fuck?'
i had a character i abandoned because she was a Mary Sue
i still feel kind of weird about that, since i'd devoted a lot of time to the character before i realized that she would be considered bad wish fulfillment
literally all of my characters are women i would likely find attractive in some capacity how do you think i feel.
literally the moment of uncomfortable realization was when someone on TVT was like, 'is this a character you want to fuck?'
and i was like... no?
well?
maybe?
and then i was like, shit.
i don't know anything but ''somebody on tvt'' probably knows even less.
Bane's motives are fairly clear and human, although some of his methods make no sense
The methods aren't the problem; the problem is that you don't really know what he stands for until the very end so it leads to a sort of dramatic confusion. You don't know what he stands for so you don't know why to be scared of him.
Comments
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
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this is stupid.
One of these is not like the others.
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
There are, of course, a lot of words like this.
she is the world's most well-known and bestselling author, is a guitar virtuoso, made the most popular Mario fangame ever (Black Candles v. 5,000,000) and has enormous jubblies
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead
- how the wish fulfillment is framed
- how well you can empathize with the character
I think Sora is a good example of a character who'd technically qualify as a "Mary Sue" but doesn't really fit the mold just because he has motives that you can empathize with.i still feel kind of weird about that, since i'd devoted a lot of time to the character before i realized that she would be considered bad wish fulfillment
Bane's motives are fairly clear and human, although some of his methods make no sense
a delicious baked dessert.
of course i think the batman comics are pretty bad too, so what do i know.
and i was like... no?
well?
maybe?
and then i was like, shit.