I mean things like plot holes and scientific accuracy.
For example, Twilight had many many problems but the vampire's biology not making sense really wasn't one of them. And the Joker's plot relying on an absurd amount of coincidences and happenstance wasn't a flaw with The Dark Knight.
scientific accuracy is of course not a big deal provided you don't get things egregiously wrong when you don't need to suspend science for the plot, especially when you are not trying to be realistic.
That was actually precisely why I used The Dark Knight. Again, it had plot holes you could drive a truck through. But it doesn't matter because it does exactly what it needs to do; that is, make you feel like you're part of a deadly game of cat and mouse.
Since I know no one will read the article, I'll post the highlights.
FAR MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE OCEAN SOLUTION HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKING THE MOVIE "BETTER." IT WOULD IN FACT MAKE IT INFINITELY WORSE. IT LITERALLY WOULD CREATE A NON-STORY. IT'S AN AGE OLD QUANDARY WHERE SOMEONE ASKS "WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST DO ____ TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM?" AND THE ANSWER IS BECAUSE THEN MOVIE WOULD BE OVER. EVERY SINGLE CONFLICT SCENARIO YOU HAVE EVER SEEN ON SCREEN HAS PROBABLY HAD A MORE LOGICAL SOLUTION THAN THE ONE THAT PLAYS OUT IN THE NARRATIVE, BUT THAT TRULY DOESN'T MATTER.
Plot isn't really all that important when you start reading up on film criticism, at least in my experience.
Stuff like tone and structure and characterization (all things The Avengers was very good with) are of tantamount importance though.
The Dark Knight, for example, rightly revered as the epitome of its genre, has a plot more holey than a saint covered in Swiss cheese.
I've found that this applies heavily to Ghilbifilms, though I think it works better for them than for most films.
Ghilbi has a way of appealing to fairytale logic in their films, in that some things happen because they're just supposed to happen or because that's just how things are. The general focus in fairytales is more on what happens rather than how or why it happens. That allows them to get away with things like, say, the turnip-headed scarecrow showing up out of nowhere in Howl's Moving Castle.
THAT SENTIMENT SHOULD BE BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS TO ALL OF US, AND YET WE STILL LOVE TO ASK THOSE LOGICAL QUESTIONS. ESPECIALLY WITH HORROR MOVIES (THIS IS LARGELY BECAUSE WE PLACE OURSELVES IN THE STALKEE'S SHOES A GREAT DEAL IN THOSE KINDS OF MOVIES AND ACTIVELY LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS ON OUR OWN). BUT THE REAL ANSWER TO "WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST DO _____" IN A HORROR MOVIE IS ALWAYS BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T, IT'S THE WAY TO MAKE THE MOST EFFECTIVE, DRAMATIC SCARE, WHICH, LEST WE FORGET, IS UTTERLY THE POINT OF WHY WE ARE IN THE THEATER. OF COURSE, THERE ARE A MILLION OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH MAKING AN EFFECTIVE SCARE OR AN EMOTIONALLY EFFECTIVE SCENE, BUT HULK ASSURES YOU THEY OFTEN DON'T HAVE ALL THAT MUCH TO DO WITH PLOT LOGIC EITHER.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I always found it weird when people complained about the 2012 Nexus 7 not having a rear camera
Like, who the fuck wants to take pictures with a tablet anyway? Even with a 7" tablet that's got to be an awkward way to shoot things. Whatever happened to, you know, standalone cameras?
I've learned to tolerate drama...except on the boat
^^I know, right?
As for non-superhero comic book movies, R.I.P.D. is one but it flopped hard and also wait and see if DreamWorks Animation (the RL owner of the Harvey and Gold Key Comics properties) decides to make a Baby Huey movie or something
CHRISTOPHER NOLAN IS PRETTY DAMN WELL RESPECTED FOR THE MOST PART, RIGHT? WE CAN AT LEAST AGREE WITH THAT. MOST PEOPLE THINK HE MAKES COMPELLING, PROFICIENT AND REASONABLY EFFECTIVE MOVIES. STILL, HE IS OFTEN THE SUBJECT OF A LOT OF PLOT HOLE TALK. FOR INSTANCE, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE SPENT THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS LAUGHING AND TALKING ABOUT HOW THE DARK KNIGHT DOESN'T MAKE A LICK OF LOGICAL DAMN SENSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT AS A WHOLE. IN ONE PLOT-BASED WAY, THAT IS VERY TRUE. THE JOKER'S PLAN FOR MUCH OF THE MOVIE IS RIDICULOUSLY IMPLAUSIBLE AND DEPENDENT ON INCREDIBLE AMOUNTS OF CONVENIENCE AND LUCK. BUT HERE'S THE THING ABOUT ALL OF THAT... IT REALLY DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.
WHY? BECAUSE NOLAN ISN'T THAT INTERESTED IN HAVING IT ALL MAKE SENSE. HE'S INTERESTED IN ENTERTAINING US IN AS DRAMATIC AND THEMATICALLY INTERESTING WAY AS POSSIBLE. AND HE DID A PRETTY DAMN GOOD JOB OF IT IF YOU ASK HULK (OR THE LEGIONS OF PEOPLE WHO WALKED OUT OF THEIR FIRST VIEWING PROCLAIMING IT WAS A MASTERPIECE). THE PLOTTING MECHANISM AT PLAY WAS OBVIOUS: NOLAN WAS ESSENTIALLY BUILDING A CAT AND MOUSE GAME OF INCREASING ESCALATION WHERE WE FOLLOW NEW PIECES OF INFORMATION FROM SCENE TO SCENE IN ULTRA-COMPELLING AND PROPULSIVE FASHION. AND IT WORKS. BOY HOWDY DOES IT WORK. SCENES MOVE ALONG WITH NOT JUST INCREDIBLE PACING, BUT INCREDIBLE PURPOSE. THERE REALLY IS A SENSE OF INTRIGUE AND CHARACTER MOTIVE THAT SHOWCASES WHAT A MASTER FILMMAKER CAN DO. SURE, THE MOVIE'S "LOGIC" DOESN'T QUITE WORK, BUT IT STILL FLOWS BEAUTIFULLY AND ENGAGES US ON MULTIPLE LEVELS. LIKE WHAT KIND OF OTHER LEVELS?
THE JOKER'S PLAN IS CHAOTIC, BUT HIS CRYSTALLINE APPROACH TO THE IDEAS OF PURE ANARCHY AND HIS GOALS OF BREAKING DOWN BATMAN, HARVEY DENT AND GOTHAM ARE SO ABSOLUTELY CLEAR (AND TERRIFYING) THAT WE CAN COMPLETELY HANG OUR "INTERESTED VIEWER" HAT ON THEM. HELL, WE'RE DOWNRIGHT FASCINATED BY HIS ACTIONS. TAKE SPECIAL CARE TO NOTE THAT ALMOST ALL OF THE JOKER'S GAMES ARE BUILT AROUND ETHICAL CHOICES THAT DIRECTLY ENGAGE BOTH THE CHARACTERS AND THE VIEWERS. YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED THAT BANE'S GAMES RARELY DID AND THAT WAS A CRUCIAL DIFFERENCE.
ACTUALLY, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES BRINGS UP SOME GOOD ISSUES TO DIG INTO. HULK HAS ARTICULATED HULK'S PROBLEMS WITH TDKR BEFORE, BUT HERE'S THE BLURB VERSION: DESPITE SOME RESONANT EMOTIONAL MOMENTS, IT IS HARD TO DENY THAT TDKR DIDN'T CONNECT QUITE AS WELL WITH AUDIENCES ON THE WHOLE, AND CERTAINLY DIDN'T INSPIRE THE SAME KIND OF UNANIMOUS "MASTERPIECE!" TALK THAT CAME OUT OF TDK. SOME CRITICS CITED FATIGUE OR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT LEDGER'S PERFORMANCE CARRIED THE PREDECESSOR, BUT HULK DISAGREES WITH THAT ASSESSMENT. THE PROBLEM WITH TDKR IS THAT THE MOMENT-TO-MOMENT LOGIC OFTEN MEANDERED AND THE THEMES AT PLAY COME ACROSS AS MUCH MORE OBSCURED, CONTRADICTORY AND SCATTERED. YES, THERE ARE CERTAINLY SOME IDEAS IN THERE, BUT THEY ARE RARELY ENGAGING US EMOTIONALLY OR IN CONFLICT WITH EACH OTHER. AND HULK ISN'T TALKING THEME IN THE PURELY INTELLECTUAL SENSE, BUT THE WAY WE EMOTIONALLY CONNECT WITH IDEAS THAT MOVE US AND IDEAS THAT SCARE US. THEY ARE BEST USED IN TANGIBLE WAYS BECAUSE COHERENT IDEOLOGIES ARE PART OF THE DRAMATIC EXPERIENCE, LIKE IN TDK, WHICH OFTEN FELT LIKE A TIGHT-ROPE WALK FOR TWO PEOPLE'S MORAL SOULS. SO WHEN CONSIDERING THE MOMENT-TO-MOMENT ENERGY AND THE CLARITY OF MENTAL CONNECTION, TDK GETS HAILED AS A MASTERPIECE SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS DRAMATICALLY SOUND, WHEREAS TDKR DOESN'T QUITE MATCH UP BECAUSE IT IS NOT.
HULK HOPES THAT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE HULK NOW WANTS TO DISCUSS THE EFFECTIVENESS IN MOMENT-TO-MOMENT LOGIC WITH ANOTHER CINEMATIC DEITY: STEVEN SPIELBERG. SPECIFICALLY, HOW DEVIN HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD IN HIS WRITE UP OF JURASSIC PARK LAST YEAR, WHICH HULK WILL NOW CITE:
The intersection of terror and wonder in that scene is, for me, the moment when Lex shines the light into T-Rex’s eye; the way the beast’s pupil dilates is amazing and scary at once. This seems to be a real thing!, you think, in awe. And it’s right there, inches away!, you think, afraid for the kids. But every second of that scene is incredible and perfect; you could write an entire book about just that eight or so minute stretch of film. What’s most incredible, for me, is the way the scene works completely on its own terms despite making no real world sense. How did the trams end up back at the T-Rex paddock? How did the T-Rex eat the goat and climb up on the road when it is established after this scene that there’s a hundred foot drop on the other side of the wall? Sometimes movie making is magic, and sleight of hand is a magician’s best friend; Spielberg is such a master that even when you’re looking out for these geographical bloopers they barely register.
DEVIN IS COMPLETELY RIGHT. THE SCENE'S GEOGRAPHY IS A MESS. THEY SKIP LOGICAL BEATS AND LIE CONSTANTLY. BUT THE SEQUENCE IS REMARKABLE BECAUSE IT MAXIMIZES THE DRAMATIC EFFECT. AND IF YOU LOOK OVER THE CAREER OF SPIELBERG YOU REALIZE SOMETHING PECULIAR: THIS IS ACTUALLY HIS MODUS OPERANDI FOR JUST ABOUT EVERY SINGLE THING HE HAS EVER DONE. HULK'S OLD BUDDY TOM TOWNEND ALWAYS POINTS OUT THAT THE TRUCK CHASE IN RAIDERS "CHEATS LIKE HELL," BEFORE EXPLAINING WHY IT SO TOTALLY DOESN'T MATTER. SPIELBERG'S ACTION TENDS TO BE SO MUCH FUN BECAUSE HE IS INTERESTED IN THE EMOTIONAL THROUGH-LINE. HE TELLS A VISUAL STORY AND BRINGS YOU FROM MOMENT-TO-MOMENT WITH THE KIND OF DISTRACTING GUSTO FEW OTHERS EVEN TALK ABOUT.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I will give up my standalone digital cameras when you pry it from my cold, dead hands
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
CAMERAS DON'T SHOOT PEOPLE, PEOPLE SHOOT PEOPLE
IF CAMERAS ARE OUTLAWED, ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE CAMERAS
BUT IT IS SO, SO, SO MISSING THE POINT OF A MOVIE. IF THEY DIDN'T NEED THE LOGIC TO FUNCTION LIKE THAT THE FIRST TIME, THEN THEY REALLY DON'T NEED IT AT ALL. BECAUSE SO OFTEN THE ESCHEWING OF LOGIC IS DONE IN THE EXACT NAME OF WHAT HULK ILLUSTRATED ABOVE WITH SPIELBERG AND NOLAN. IT IS DONE IN THE NAME OF THE DRAMATIC EXPERIENCE THAT FIRST MADE YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH THE MOVIE. AND THAT'S EVERYTHING. THAT'S WHAT PULLS YOU IN. THAT'S WHAT MAKES YOU SATISFIED TO BEGIN WITH. DRAMA IS BY FAR THE MOST EFFECTIVE TOOL TO CONNECT WITH PEOPLE. TO FULFILL THE PURPOSE OF STORYTELLING AND TRANSLATE LIFE'S NARRATIVE... SO WHY DO WE JUDGE THE LOGIC DIFFERENTLY IN RETROSPECT? DRAMA IS SIMPLY THE GATEWAY TO EVERYTHING WE NEED FROM A MOVIE. AND EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE A PLETHORA OF FILMS THAT REWARD MULTIPLE WATCHES FOR CEREBRAL, HUMOROUS OR SILLY PURPOSES, IT'S THAT FIRST DRAMATIC WATCH THAT MEANS EVERYTHING IN TERMS OF DRAMATIC FUNCTION.
You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
I guess I shouldn't be making camera = gun jokes this close to the Sandy Hook anniversary
Comments
bigger ones definitely are
scientific accuracy is of course not a big deal provided you don't get things egregiously wrong when you don't need to suspend science for the plot, especially when you are not trying to be realistic.
Seriously, it's one of the least important things.
i don't get all they hype christopher nolan gets
he seems like, for lack of a better turn of phrase, a sort of "man who likes to think he is a thinking man's michael bay"
plus you have that hans zimmer music going on
eww
a superb combination of shit that loser nerds like
(*flips around snapback, absconds via skateboard*)
Assassin poems, Poems that shoot
guns. Poems that wrestle cops into alleys
and take their weapons leaving them dead