Discussion of TV Tropes

Beholder · 2012-02-14 16:18:37

Heh, I was not noticeable enough to get a lot of comments on SA, but unwittingly, some of them flattered me. They claimed that I've used "third person" speech in order to be attention whore (It wasn't the reason, but at least it might be understandable why they thought so), but then they said that I claim to be Russian in order to be an attention whore! According to them, it cannot be true because my writing shows that I am a native speaker.

Well, thank you very much, SA! I am flattered that you think so.

Even though I notice a ton of mistakes in my writing everyday, but obviously noticing real mistakes I make is much less fun.

Obā-san · 2012-02-14 16:18:44

Funny voices are serious business.

Misery · 2012-02-14 16:19:34

I don't see anything wrong with the funny voices.

Justice4243 · 2012-02-14 16:20:27

Somehow this reminds me of the ED article on us and how their where tropers who WANTED to be added to their list of tropers.

I'm not sure anyone took my advice of just adding themselves, hilariously, that would be against ED rules.

Obā-san · 2012-02-14 16:21:58

I think if Crazy Goggs had been in the room when I'd seen the videos about Lucky, Made of Meat and those forum threads, I would probably have punched him in the face.

I have no words, so here is a bridge.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 16:22:26

It wasn't the voices that bothered me, it was the public ridicule on a site with as much exposure as Youtube of people I cared about, often for things that really weren't funny.

Plus, y'know, making fun of Meats was kind of a massive dick move, given that she has serious issues.

Anyway, I've made that TRS thread.

Beholder · 2012-02-14 16:22:55

I guess such reaction has something to do with (misguided as it might be, as TVT is a public forum one does not have to be registered to browse) the feeling of TVT being a "safe haven", and suddenly and rather violently having that safety violated.

Although what annoys me much more if the level of attention SA's opinion gets, for some reason. I couldn't care less about them if TVT itself did not suddenly start to think that they might be right.

Justice4243 · 2012-02-14 16:22:59

That image really doesn't do justice to how brown that water actually is.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 16:23:24

CrazyGoggs baffles me. I have made, by my own admission, plenty of stupid posts on TVTropes. And he picked one which was....

I don't even know. Absurdly mundane. Let's go with that.

Although what annoys me much more if the level of attention SA's opinion gets, for some reason. I couldn't care less about them if TVT itself did not suddenly start to think that they might be right.

I have no problem with "might be", but it was right around when we started to get a ton of wannabe goons who thought that every word said in that thread was gospel truth that I started to get annoyed.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 16:27:20

I guess such reaction has something to do with (misguided as it might be, as TVT is a public forum one does not have to be registered to browse) the feeling of TVT being a "safe haven", and suddenly and rather violently having that safety violated.

Yes, I did feel this way. I was also naïve enough to assume that nobody outside the TVT community would bother to read through the social threads just to make fun of moody teens who were having a bad day and stuff like that.

Obviously I don't feel that way now.

Obā-san · 2012-02-14 16:27:45

the feeling of TVT being a "safe haven"

Your whole problem, right here.

And it's a reasonably popular site, of course people will rummage through looking for bits to laugh at.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 16:29:03

Stow it. There was not only a time when that was true, but a time when that was essentially our big draw.

It kind of pisses me off that that's not only no longer the case, but that people had to actively work to make that no longer the case.

Beholder · 2012-02-14 16:29:21

I know, right?

It feels rather sad not having one now

Justice4243 · 2012-02-14 16:29:51

"I will say that my favorite food is shoes"

If I where going to poke fun at a Blixty quote, I'd start with this.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 16:30:42

The best part about that one is that it totally makes sense if you know the context.

Obā-san · 2012-02-14 16:32:49

Ultimately, how safe of a place you have depends on who you listen to.

Sometimes, I'll see someone post something that would be considered abusive in real life. Like they'll post a stupidly elaborate death threat because somebody made a video they didn't like, or they'll start making assumptions about someone's intelligence because they wrote a story they didn't like (this is assuming there's nothing wrong with the story/video other than the fact that it wasn't to the person's taste).

I start to think, "That's not nice. I'm sure the video maker thought this video out before making it." Or, "That commenter doesn't know whether or not that writer thinks they're clever for writing that story."

Then, I realize it's the Internet. They don't matter. If that person insulting everyone on the Internet actually did matter, well, we'd be hearing their opinions on TV or in a book or something. But we're not.

All they'll ever be is mean and unimportant, and if they keep spending all their time whining on-line, they'll never amount to anything in life. Even if they try to rationalize the fact that no one cares what they think by saying, "That person is selfish, " they'd be wrong. They're the selfish ones for thinking people will care about what they think, and if everyone ran around caring what everyone thought, nothing would get done.

And I turn off the computer and smile.

Also, LOL Eddie locked the thread.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 16:33:29

Like I said, I don't feel that way now.

Posts get made on TVT concerning issues that are at times quite sensitive to the individuals in question, and it really felt like they were made just among friends, particularly when the forum was smaller and everybody knew everybody. Some of the posts they picked out were very old.

With the Lucky thing, it wasn't so much that he was hurt (he wasn't), it was the fact that the posts were clearly selected with the intention of being hurtful as possible to the kind of person he was when he made them. It was utterly spiteful.

With that in mind, while I recognise that I was naïve, I honestly don't see why a knee-jerk protective reaction warrants an "I have no words" response.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 16:34:30

And what is that quote supposed to mean, hm?

Go ahead, tell me.

Obā-san · 2012-02-14 16:36:54

Words are not worth punching over. They can be contemptible, vile, disturbing, ect.

But as long as they do not incite violence, they should never, ever be responded to with violence.

Ever.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 16:37:34

And then the OP of that thread got upset because people said rude things about him in the thread.

^ Look, that's all very well and good, but I wasn't talking about a rational, calculated action here. Congratulations on your moral high ground I guess.

There are ways to hurt people that don't involve fists, though.

Obā-san · 2012-02-14 16:41:30

Umm...

No, it's not a shitpost. I meant every word of that, and I meant it to serve as a reminder for when people take things too seriously.I was trying to help the mood, I guess. I mean, this is Yackfest, and it was a coherent topic.

I didn't mean to sound like I was taking it seriously. I kind of meant it playfully, but there's no voice tone on the Internet, so I can't relay it. I'm sorry if it came off as hostile, or mean.

This was the OP's only other post in the thread.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-14 16:41:44

I feel bad now because I let the TG index being wrong bother me

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 16:42:41

I hate posts like that. Because they paint the person making them as being some sort of sophisticated elevated internet user who "knows" that it's all meaningless because it's all online, and nothing online really matters right? No one's ever been hurt by anything online. No one's ever committed suicide at anything online. Nothing bad has ever happened because of anything online. Am I right fellas?

So let's celebrate our moral superiority by picking on some moody teens. That'll show 'em how cool we are.

Obā-san · 2012-02-14 16:50:19

It's not meaningless, I guess I don't agree with what I copypasted exactly, but you can step back. You can just not go read the SA thread. You can not read the ED article.

And people didn't, heck, they didn't know they even existed, until it was pointed out to them.

Salix Babylonika · 2012-02-14 16:51:41

Precisely my point.

We were fully content to ignore SA/ED/whatever until someone comes along and goes HEY LOOK AT THESE PEOPLE THEY'RE TOTES RIGHT ABOUT US.

At that point it becomes significantly harder to just ignore. This is what I mean when I refer to people actively working to make TVTropes no longer a safe haven, and significantly less pleasant.

Hardly the only factor, but one of them, certainly.

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 16:54:22

^^ You can, but the more stuff there is about you online that makes you look bad, the more probable it is that it will spill over into other sites when you post there, or even into real life.

^ But it wasn't really a safe haven, it just felt like one. At no point did making a shameful-sounding post there not leave you open to malicious rumours or sincere (even reasonable) dislike that could bite you in the ass later, and at no point did TV Tropes' tolerance for that kind of behaviour make it acceptable or not socially disadvantageous in the real world.

Viani · 2012-02-14 18:32:02

Does TV Tropes have a page concerning Mail Order Brides?

Mr_W · 2012-02-14 18:46:37

-checks-

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MailOrderBride

D:

(Granted, it's trope involving that idea as a plotline, but still.)

Tachyon · 2012-02-14 22:05:35

And it's a common plotline. Nothing dismayed-facey about TVT having an article on that.

I don't understand why some people (tropers and haters) seem to take the existence of pages like Rape is Funny when it's Male on Male, Straw Feminist, Noble Savage and There are No Girls on the Internet as a ringing endorsement of those things. They might not be nice tropes, but they clearly exist in the media.

Rottweiler · 2012-02-15 03:09:31

"You can, but the more stuff there is about you online that makes you
look bad, the more probable it is that it will spill over into other
sites when you post there, or even into real life."

I noticed this when someone I'd talked to for years on IRC started attacking me because of the SA thread.

Rather than get sad about it, I trolled SA to make the strawman version of me more ridiculous.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-15 03:46:59

How does transgenderism not "differ from established gender norms

Because most transgendered people follow the gender norms IIRC

Viani · 2012-02-15 03:48:38

aka girls have long hair and are pretty guys have short hair and are stern, playing pinball with the masculinity and femininity categories, understanding society's base sexual characteristics etc.

Lunate · 2012-02-15 09:47:40

Ahh, all this community stalking thing reminds me of all that good time spent on Conservapedia/RationalWiki.

Heh, I was not noticeable enough to get a lot of comments on SA, but
unwittingly, some of them flattered me. They claimed that I've used
"third person" speech in order to be attention whore (It wasn't the
reason, but at least it might be understandable why they thought so),
but then they said that I claim to be Russian in order to be an
attention whore! According to them, it cannot be true because my writing
shows that I am a native speaker.

Ahh, you noticed. One of them was in disbelief even after a troper goon had told them you weren't a native speaker.

The thing about claiming the "this one" thing is because you're Russian bothers me. Considering you're consistently the one who corrects others on that when they believe so, it blatantly shows that goons aren't above completely fabricated facts in order to get cheap shots. That and the thing about Myrmidon claiming he doesn't care about them (as opposed to his This Troper entry).

On that note, has anyone besides me said something along it not being worth it to read mockery on TVT from people who don't understand it?

millercross · 2012-02-15 11:28:15

When you say "Don't understand it", you mean "don't frequent it and never did on the first place"?

Beholder · 2012-02-15 11:31:12

I suppose it means "don't even bothered to look at the context"

Obā-san · 2012-02-15 11:35:07

Thoughts?

Unknown · 2012-02-15 11:51:11

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Unknown · 2012-02-15 11:52:06

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Lunate · 2012-02-15 11:54:53

When you say "Don't understand it", you mean "don't frequent it and never did on the first place"?

I don't remember which one I meant when I first said it (probably the second). So, has anybody else said either, or is it just a little thing that caught on the SA thread?

^^ What's that?

Morven · 2012-02-15 12:23:35

As I recall, I was the one correcting their impression that Beholderess could not possibly be Russian.

And yes, the desire to ignore actual facts when it made for an easier cheap shot was one of the things that bugged.

Irene · 2012-02-15 12:27:48

And yes, the desire to ignore actual facts when it made for an easier cheap shot was one of the things that bugged.

That's why I don't visit places like SA. I even banned all links from it in my chat, since it's flame-war heaven when posting them.

Obā-san · 2012-02-15 12:28:02

I like the proposed YKTTW overhaul.

Kinda odd, I never liked the wiki, but I still wanna make it better. Probably because I like the concept but not the execution.

^How many people are in that anyways?

And I like their music related subfora, and have considered joining for them.

Ace Rimmer · 2012-02-15 12:29:12

Morven said it was an unannounced which above all else is FE's biggest problem.

Irene · 2012-02-15 12:34:18

My chat? Eh, maybe about 10-15.

If you mean SA, who knows. I know some Tropers have migrated there, though. Which has sometimes gotten them banned too. Although I don't think going on SA alone gives you the ban, but if you're going to do nothing but mock people on another forum, the chance of you bringing in to TVTropes' forum is too much to take.

To be honest, I think they should only be banned if they purposely make their own mocking blog or cause trouble on TVTropes itself.

And yeah, I would've liked to know about the forum thing. It doesn't bother me that much, though. It's very easy to get around.

Beholder · 2012-02-15 13:05:20

Seriously, both the behaviour of SA and the way people seem to react on it are so... high-school. I just have no other words for it.

One group of, let's face it, Internet nerds apparently has nothing better to do than to mock another group of Internet nerds, probably just to show that they are somehow superior. In doing that, they resort to what is eerily reminiscent of high-school bullying, at least as far as "let's make fun of misfit for our own amusement" is concerned.

And another group of Internet nerds for some reason takes the first group seriously (again, reminding me of high school. "Ahh, the popular "cool" kids do not like me! I must be loser! I'd do anything if it allows me to hand out with them!"), breaking the site (for me, at least. For many it is "improvement". Oh well) in process. Instead of simply writing them off as jerks of no consequence.

Obā-san · 2012-02-15 13:06:08

That's middle school, not high school.

Lunate · 2012-02-15 13:08:57

As I recall, I was the one correcting their impression that Beholderess could not possibly be Russian.

I remember Scrye correcting them, too, so I guess that's happened at least twice.

Beholder · 2012-02-15 13:11:18

Indeed, middle school would be more appropriate

millercross · 2012-02-15 14:23:27

The problem with treating this is as a high school dichotomy is that it simply means that we have to ignore all criticism from the SA thread simply because we don't like them. And really, if I've learned anything from this whole thing, is that TvT could use with some changing. And it's not like it was the SA thread what made me think so. It was...well, a lot of things. Going to TRS, editing the wiki (The few times I did it, anyway) and so on, were tedious tasks and a lot of times, the strenght of your argument did not matter, simply because of some numbers.

Viani · 2012-02-15 14:24:41

Like with the petition to get Troper Tales removed, right? 2:1 ratio?

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