The notion that the dead coming to the world of the living are malevolent

Anonus

It seems kind of bizarre to me

I know it's a violation of nature and such, but still

Sredni Vashtar

There's a vignette by Thomas Ligotti that justifies this reasonably well, actually: The dead have been woken against their will and prefer to be dead, so in retribution against whatever force awakened them they try to bring as many into their fold as they can before they are permitted to rest again.

There is a little more to it than that, but it is interesting how rarely the living dead are portrayed as non-malevolent, or at least independent agents.

glennmagusharvey

I've played a recent game in which the villain has messed up a whole bunch of people's skeletons just create undead skeleton demons.  And in which the people of the world of the dead are actually pretty nice people themselves, who just happen to be dead and thus in a different dimension.  And in which the Devil is actually not so much evil as much as somewhat of a jerk, and if anything, he keeps order by punishing souls that need punishing, and generally keeping track of everything in the underworld.  He got one-upped by an actually dangerous villain who is interested in completely fucking over both the world of the living and the world of the dead just to get revenge on him, and he is portrayed somewhat sympathetically (and humorously).

Hexartes

Final Fantasy X had a weird approach to this kinda thing.

People die but don't disappear unless they're dismissed by a summoner or accept their death (and the latter is a bit iffy.) After years of becoming less and less attached to their corporeal form, they grow to resent the living and become fiends. None of this is ever really explained past a line or two or shown, but it works fairly well.

Yarrun XIX

glennmagusharvey said:

I've played a recent game in which the villain has messed up a whole bunch of people's skeletons just create undead skeleton demons.  And in which the people of the world of the dead are actually pretty nice people themselves, who just happen to be dead and thus in a different dimension.  And in which the Devil is actually not so much evil as much as somewhat of a jerk, and if anything, he keeps order by punishing souls that need punishing, and generally keeping track of everything in the underworld.  He got one-upped by an actually dangerous villain who is interested in completely fucking over both the world of the living and the world of the dead just to get revenge on him, and he is portrayed somewhat sympathetically (and humorously).

Oh, yeah, that one. It's pretty baller.

One-Winged Eagle

So here's how it works in Chinese Buddhism/Daoism (the two are linked quite closely), which is appropriate because it's the Hungry Ghost Festival right now.

Everyone accumulates through the actions in their lives what is called "karma." Think of it like Newton's Third Law: every action has an equal reaction. In this case, the reaction that your actions take shape your karma. After your death, before your rebirth, your karma is considered, and you are sent to wherever you need to be. Those with positive karma get reborn in the god realms, where they will waste their goodwill by being arrogant and short-sighted, and die in disgrace. Those with neutral get reborn with the humans. And those with negative karma get reborn in the hell realms where they will do penance and excise their sins.

On the seventh month of the Chinese calendar, the gates of hell are opened up and the ghosts roam the world on their annual field-trip. They eat, they drink, they watch people go about their lives. For fourteen days, they're not tortured by every conceivable thing ever. 

Obā-san

Those with positive karma get reborn in the god realms, where they will
waste their goodwill by being arrogant and short-sighted, and die in
disgrace.

is this inevitable for everyone with positive karma?

because that would seem to indicate that the best course of action would be to try to stay as neutral as possible and keep being reborn in the human world/realm/whatever

or am i misunderstanding?

Sredni Vashtar

I assume that it is not the absolute rule, but people can really go either way in the world: No-one is incorrigibly evil to the very core, but nor can they be perfectly, irreducibly good. So they tend to leave heaven or hell, assuming that they don't leave the circle entirely by achieving nirvana or the like.

One-Winged Eagle

Yes, being reborn in the human realm is the most optimal way to reach enlightenment. In the god realm you are diresistance by bliss, and in the hell realm you are distracted by pain.

It is by no means impossible to reach enlightenment in these states, but just immensely hard. The path of least resistance is the middle path.

Actually, it's emphasis on the middle path is something it shares with Daoism, which is why the two faiths have been able to co-exist (although not without strife) in the same place.

Obā-san

Huh, very interesting!