Can anyone come up with a single movie that was broken by a plot hole?

Hexartes

This is something I've been thinking of for a while, ever since I read that one FILM CRIT HULK article. Can anyone here come up with a single movie whose primarily fault was a plot hole? Like, no underlying problems of tone, structure, or characterization; the problem strictly is the plot hole.

Obā-san

[Muffled Theme From The Price Is Right Playing In The Distance]

Hexartes

Or, for that matter, a movie where a plot hole interfered with things like tone, structure, or characterization? A movie where a plot hole was a flaw, period.

Obā-san

srs tho a work can't be broken by one single problem of any sort

you have to get a couple of things going at once

like, listen to this limp bizkit song



p much everything wrong with this song could be excused if it were in the context of other, better things. but as it is literally everything about it is terrible and the crappiness of all the individual elements shines through like a dandy little acetylene lantern that costs 3 dollars

an extreme example, sure, but i think i've made my point

Obā-san

srs tho a work can't be broken by one single problem of any sort

you have to get a couple of things going at once

like, listen to this limp bizkit song



p much everything wrong with this song could be excused if it were in the context of other, better things. but as it is literally everything about it is terrible and the crappiness of all the individual elements shines through like a dandy little acetylene lantern that costs 3 dollars

an extreme example, sure, but i think i've made my point

Yarrun XIX

Cause and effect are in place here.

To be specific, problems with structure and characterization tend to result in plot holes rather than the other way around. 

Hexartes

Not necessarily. Super 8 was pretty pristine plot wise, but the tone, structure, and drama was really spotty. I haven't seen much of Abram's stuff but I've heard that his movies all have problems with the basic stuff even if they seem to go to great lengths to avoid plot holes

Yarrun XIX

It's not necessarily a given that structural problems cause plot holes.

It's just that it's more likely than the other way around. 

Hexartes

I've found that quite often plot holes are more a result of properly placed priorities. Jurassic Park was filled with holes because if too much effort was spent on making the island's geography consistent the tension and excitement would be lessened.

MetaFour

A plot hole could conceivably ruin the mood, immersion, etc., if you notice it as you're watching the movie. But it's hard to say if that's because the hole is particularly blatant, or if you're analytical mode because the movie's already failed to engage you.

Also, in some genres the plot really is the absolute most important thing, and everything else is secondary. Like a "fair play" murder mystery. The primary draw is figuring out whodunnit and how they dunnit, so a contradiction in the evidence, or an M.O. that breaks the established rules of the setting, will bring the whole film crashing down.

Tachyon

Super 8 was fantastic, what are you talking about

Tachyon

also imo plot holes are 'flaws' almost by definition, although usually quite mild flaws

i say this on the basis that they're irritating and make it harder to suspend disbelief

Hexartes

Tachyon said:

Super 8 was fantastic, what are you talking about

Super 8 was a mess. Admittedly, a mess with some really good parts, but so much of it just felt... inept. There was no reason for the big alien mystery. It was a bunch of buildup to an incredibly disappointing ending.

Tachyon

it didn't feel inept in the slightest, it felt brilliantly crafted

the ending wasn't the best, but i didn't find it a disappointment

Hexartes

Film Crit Hulk put it really well, I think. It had all the texture of a good movie; it just didn't have any particular substance. The stuff with the kids was really, really good; it's just a shame that the mystery was the focus.

Salix Babylonika

Man I'm not gonna lie, I don't know enough about movies to know whether or not they're actually a good critic but it's really weird to see you citing Film Crit Hulk--what is ostensibly a parodic twitter account--as a serious source of film criticism.

Hexartes

He writes long form essays. The stated intent of the Hulk persona is to catch people off guard. His Twitter is definitely not all there is to him.

This is the article I was talking about.

Salix Babylonika

I'm not going to read that because A) I don't watch enough movies to understand any insight it might have and B) it's in all-caps (I know it is, his shtick is that he's The Hulk) and is furthermore paragraphs-long in all-caps, which makes it hard on my eyes.

I'm not saying you're wrong or whatever necessarily, I'm just saying it comes across as a little weird.

Tachyon

i can see the argument that the film lacks substance, but then, it's not a Spielberg movie, it's a JJ Abrams movie, and JJ Abrams' movies tend to be plot-centric (although i'd argue he also handles characterization excellently, for the most part)

Super 8 was not a work of art, but it was great fun and eminently rewatchable, i think

Hexartes

I'm not saying it's bad by any stretch- really, it was quite good. But if you're going to try to be a Spielberg movie (because, let's face it, that's what Super 8 was most certainly going for) you need to understand what Spielberg does to make his movies work so well.

Salix Babylonika

Tangentially, I watched a documentary on super 8 film production once.

Which is stupid, because I'm pretty sure I've never seen a single super 8 film in my entire life, and I likely never will.

Honestly like, I have a very low tolerance for movies in general and I don't really know why.

Hexartes

And the thing is, it's not the characterization I'm complaining about. That was easily the best part of the movie. What I'm complaining about is the plot. It just didn't mesh very well. The great parts of that movie were the ones focusing on the kids being kids. Where it sort of stumbled was with the parts that were supposed to be scary and mysterious.

Tachyon

Spielberg's strongest point, imo, is his characterization, and like i said, i think Abrams handled that pretty well

i interpreted it as a self-conscious homage to Spielberg's movies, rather than an attempt to emulate them closely *shrug*

Hexartes

Well what I'm getting at was that it was clearly a homage. That's not a problem by any stretch. 

Tachyon

i mean, it's not an attempt to directly replicate Spielberg's movies, so it seems odd to criticize it for failing to be one

Hexartes

It's a clear homage but it only takes the superficial elements. That's a valid complaint.

Tachyon

it's a valid observation