James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher
what the fuck does this even mean? I had had had an idea, but now its gone.
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When read aloud, the intonation removes much of the ambiguity.
The Buffalo sentence depends on abnormal lack of articles and linking pronouns.
The buffalo, which Buffalo buffalo buffalo, also buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
Also, no one uses "buffalo" as a verb.
To illustrate why this is wrong, substitute another noun, verb and adjective into the equivalent parts of the sentence, e.g. 'SJWs, tumblr SJWs bully, bully tumblr SJWs.' Doesn't make sense, does it?
To disambiguate the sentence, you can instead add additional words: 'Buffalo that Buffalo buffalo buffalo in turn buffalo other Buffalo buffalo.'
Perhaps ellipses are better, though they also may incorrectly imply missing text.
Or would you? If you would, i'm afraid you are wrong.
Buffalo, bully Buffalo buffalo.
You can see why this is incorrect, can't you?
So Buffalo Buffalo (Bison from Buffalo) bully Buffalo Buffalo (Bison from buffalo)
Since Buffalo means bully,
Buffalo Buffalo (Bison from Buffalo) buffalo (bully) Buffalo Buffalo (Bison from Buffalo).
SO
Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.
"buffalo, Buffalo buffalo bully, ..."
(with the first "buffalo" being capitalized only because it's the beginning of the sentence, but I've decapitalized it here for clarity)
Now, you normally wouldn't pause while reciting a sentence of that structure. However, in this sentence, which includes so many potentially confusing pieces, if you're a good speaker, you will use pauses in order to make it as clear as possible to the audience, assuming you don't change the word order at all.
The commas or ellipses represent those pauses.
i get what you're saying about the commas, but that's still not grammatically correct. If you were saying the sentence aloud, of course you'd put pauses in, but commas are not simple indicators of pauses. There are rules about where a comma can or can't go.
If you don't use commas, you should use another indication of a pause.
None of the others is a more fitting indication in this case. Except maybe an ellipsis.
I'm just doing it here because I can easily get away with it under the guise of shitposting, in which context, I can say things that I'd like to say and not be taken as seriously about them
But here, I can cite that this is a General-category thread and claim that I have been shitposting. :D
i refuse to stand for such nonsense, but i suppose it means arguing about this is pointless in any case.
But I think that those rules should be relaxed for confusing sentences, in notating conversation. Such as the one in the above paragraph.
Formal writing might be a bit different, admittedly. Probably should be done with a priority on ease of reading rather than ease of sounding. In which case the existing grammar rules would apply more.
This whole issue rarely ever comes up, of course. Probably the only time it really does come up is in the notation of song lyrics: does one post commas when they should grammatically come up, or where there are pauses in the melody?
I naturally tend toward the latter. Though, ideally, they should coincide; that would be proper lyricization of a melody.
Song lyrics are a little different; generally i think they should follow the rules of poetry, in which rules of punctuation are normally adhered to but are relaxed considerably.
Which is to say, poetic licence applies.
But in general I think that long rambling sentences could be improved with some rewriting/punctuation. For example:
"We show by dynamic modeling of carbon flux results from seven detailed studies by us of temperature and tropical wetlands and from 14 other wetland studies by others that methane emissions become unimportant within 300 years compared to carbon sequestration in wetlands."
"By applying dynamic modeling of carbon flux -- to seven detailed studies by us of temperature and tropical wetlands, and 14 wetland studies by others -- we show that methane emissions become unimportant (compared to carbon sequestration, in radiative climate forcing effects) within 300 years."
also
its rules exist by convention, not because any authority said so
it's all very democratic
you're treating them as you would rests in music
that's not how written English works, and i feel it's kind of disrespectful to the medium to try to mould it into a kind of programming language for spoken English
I guess a dash might be the closest thing, actually.
Emily Dickinson
Liked to use dashes
Instead of full stops.
Nowadays faced with such
Idiosyncrasy
Critics and editors
Send for the cops.
- Wendy Cope
if it weren't, you would see me shitposting music ALL THE DAMN TIME
I would have shitposted BARK AT THE MOON like twenty times already