Why do people hate on God for nuking Sodom and Gomorrah?

Alduin

I mean, the guy tried to find ten good people in the place and he couldn't even do that. When he sent his homies down, everyone even tried to rape them!

I mean, I wouldn't give him flak for nuking it.

One-Winged Eagle

Because people disagree on the term "good".

Beholder

Exactly. "Good" has many interpretations. Also, popular interpretation seems to hold the offenses of Sodom and Gomorrah a bit... different from what they were. That is to say, they seem to think that the whole deal was about harmless debauchery, while the actual offenses of these cities were "robbing, raping and killing (not necessarily in this order) of everyone who happened to pass by.

What surprises me more is why Lot is considered "good". I mean, he had no problem with his daughters being raped. And, judging by their conduct afterwards, the whole family was quite shifty.

Obā-san

The story of sodom and gomorrah is about hospitality.

Lot was "good" because he did his best to make his guests welcome. The other people there were more than willing to take advantage of strangers (*literally as the case may be*)

also there is the dry irony that Lot's daughters both raped him later.

The Qur'an does not include any references to Lot's drunkenness nor his incestuous relations since any suggestion of such behavior by a prophet of Islam is considered false.

huh.

Previous Calica

Because, well, nuking cities is still pretty harsh.  Also a lot of people hear the version that's been twisted into a homophobic fable.

Obā-san

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/026-qmt.php#026.165

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/007-qmt.php#007.081

Alduin

spinor said:

Because, well, nuking cities is still pretty harsh.  Also a lot of people hear the version that's been twisted into a homophobic fable.

Even if they're cities comprised almost entirely of rapists?

Previous Calica

Yeah, even if they're "comprised almost entirely of rapists", which, as a description, makes the whole story sound kind of silly.

Alduin

-shrug-

That's the way the Bible presents it, and that's what I'm taking from it. If you want to question its accuracy, fine. But I don't think this is the place for that.

Justice4243

It's kinda funny God get's a lot of flack for killing people when the Bible goes well out of its way to explain that the people involved where more or less pure evil,yet no one sits around and questions why Elijah had hundreds of priests of Baal murdered because they lost the great matchless altar cook-off.

Imipolex G

Old Testament God is kind of a jerk

There, I said it

Odradek

Pseudo-Lot, or Concerning Patriotism

And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the

gate of Sodom: and Lot, seeing them, rose up to meet them; and

he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into

your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and

ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay;

but we will abide in the street all night.

And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto

him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and

did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat it.

And they said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son-in-law,

and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in

the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this

place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of

the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.

Lot was taken aback when he heard this, and he said: “And

why must I go from this place?” Whereupon they said to him:

“Because the Lord does not wish to destroy the righteous.”

Lot was silent for a long while, but then he said: “I beseech

you, sirs, give me leave to speak with my sons-in-law and

daughters, that they may make ready for the journey.” They

answered him: “Do so.”

And Lot went out , and he ran through the streets of the city

and cried out to all the people: “Up, get you out of this place; for

the Lord will destroy this city.” But he seemed to them as one that

mocked them.

Lot returned home, but he did not lie down, but pondered all

night long.

And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot,

saying: “Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are

here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.”

“I will not go,” said Lot. “Forgive me, but I will not go. I

have pondered this all night long. I cannot go, for I too am one

of the people of Sodom.”

“You are righteous,” objected the angels, “but they are

unrighteous, and the cry of their iniquities has angered the Lord.

What are they to you?”

“I don’t know,” said Lot. “I have been thinking about this

too, what they are to me. All my life I have complained about my

countrymen, and I have judged them so harshly that it grieves me

to recall it now: for they will perish. And when I went to the city

of Segor, it seemed to me that its people were better than the

people of Sodom.”

Odradek

“Arise,” said the angels, “go to the city of Segor: for it shall

be saved.”

“What is Segor to me?” answered Lot. “There is a righteous

man in Segor: whenever I spoke with him he complained about his

countrymen, and I cursed the people of Sodom for their sins, but

now I cannot go. I beg of you, let me stay.”

And an angel spoke and said: “The Lord has commanded that

the people of Sodom be destroyed.”

“His will be done,” said Lot quietly. “I pondered all night

long, and I recalled so many things it made me weep. Have you

ever heard how the people of Sodom sing? No, you don’t know

them at all, or you wouldn’t have come like this. When the girls

walk along the streets they swing their hips and a song hums

through their lips and they laugh as they draw water into their

pitchers. No water is more clear than that from the wells of

Sodom, and no speech in any tongue sounds more beautiful. When

a child speaks, I understand him as if he were my own, and when

he plays, he plays the games I played when I was very small. And

when I cried, my mother comforted me in the speech of Sodom.

Lord,” cried Lot, “as if it were yesterday!”

“The people of Sodom have sinned,” said the second angel

gravely, “and therefore—”

“They have sinned, I know,” Lot interrupted him impatiently.

“But have you seen our craftsmen? They look as if they were at

play, and when they make a jug or fine linen cloth, your heart

leaps with joy at how artfully it’s done. They are such skillful

people that you could watch them all day long, and when you see

them do such awful things it pains you more than if a man from

Segor had done them. It torments you as if you yourself shared

their guilt. What use is my righteousness to me if I belong to

Sodom? If you judge Sodom, you judge me. I am not righteous. I

am like them. I will not go from here.”

“You will be destroyed with them,” said the angel, frowning.

“Perhaps, but first I’ll try to save them from destruction. I

don’t know what I’ll do, but until the last moment I’ll think it my

duty to help them. How could I possibly go? I am disobeying the

Lord, and so He will not hear me. If He had given me three years’

time, or three days, or even three hours! What would three hours

matter to Him? If yesterday He had commanded me: Go forth

from their midst, for they are unrighteous — I would have said to

Him: Be patient with me for just a little while, I’ll have a word

with this one and that one; I have judged them instead of going

out amongst them. But how can I leave now, when they are to be

destroyed? For am I not partly to blame that things have gone so

far with them? I don’t want to die, but neither could I bear for

them to die. I will stay.”

“You cannot save Sodom.”

Obā-san

Justice42 said:

It's kinda funny God get's a lot of flack for killing people when the Bible goes well out of its way to explain that the people involved where more or less pure evil,yet no one sits around and questions why Elijah had hundreds of priests of Baal murdered because they lost the great matchless altar cook-off.

that's because nobody ever actually reads the whole darn book anymore

Odradek

“I know I can’t: what could I possibly do? But I will try,

although what, I don’t yet know; I only know that I must persist.

Because all my life I judged them more harshly than anyone else,

because I have borne with them the heaviest burden: their faults.

Lord, I don’t know how to tell You what they are to me; I can

only show it by staying with them.”

“Your people,” said the angel, “are those who are righteous

and believe in the same God as you; the sinful, the godless, and

the idolatrous are not your people.”

“How could they not be, when they are the people of Sodom?

You don’t understand, because you don’t know the voice of flesh

and clay. What is Sodom, then? You say it is a city of wickedness.

But when the people of Sodom fight, they do not fight for their

wickedness, but for something better, something that was or will

be; and even the worst of them may lay down his life for the sake

of the others. Sodom means all of us, and if I have any merit in

the eyes of the Lord let Him give the credit to Sodom, not to me.

What more can I say? Tell the Lord: Lot, Thy servant, will stand

before the men of Sodom and defend them against Thee, as if

Thou wert his enemy.”

“Cease!” cried the angel. “Terrible is your sin, but the Lord

has not heard you. Make ready and leave from this city: save at

least your wife and the two daughters whom you have.”

Then Lot wept: “Yes, I must save them, you are right. I beg

of you, show me the way.”

And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and

upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two

daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him.

Justice4243

Old Testament every-fucking-one is kinda a jerk. 

Sort of makes it difficult to pass moral judgement on a group when "being a dick" was apparently the cultural norm.

Odradek

(As they led him forth, Lot prayed, saying:)

“All that life has given me, it gave me by thy hands; it

fashioned my flesh from thy clay and put into my mouth the

words that are in the mouths of thy men and women; and therefore

I kissed them with each of my words, even when I cursed

them.

“I see thee even when I close my eyes, for thou art deeper

than my sight; thou art in me, even as I have been in thee.

“My hands perform thy work unawares; and were even I in

the desert, my feet would walk in the direction of thy ways.

“Sodom, Sodom, art thou not the most beautiful of cities?

And if I were to see only one small window, curtained in striped

linen, I would know it and say: this is a window of Sodom.

“I am like a dog who is led from the house of his master;

even if he droops his muzzle in the dust, so as not to see, he still

recognizes the smell of the things he knows.

“I believed in the Lord and His law; in thee I did not believe,

but thou art, and other lands are as shadows through which I pass,

nor can I lean against a wall or a tree: they are like shadows.

“But thou art as nothing else: and everything that is, is only

in comparison with thee. If I look upon thee, I see only thee, and

if I look upon something else, I see it only in comparison with

thee.

“I believed in the Lord because He seemed to me the God of

Sodom; if there is no Sodom, there is no Lord.

“Oh gates, gates of Sodom, where are they leading me and

into what emptiness? Where shall I set my foot? For there is no

ground beneath me: and I stand as if I stood not. Go, my

daughters, and leave me; I can go no farther.”

And they brought him forth, and set him without the city; and

they spake unto him, saying: Escape for thy life; look not behind

thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest

thou be consumed."

The sun was risen upon the earth when they said this.

Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah

brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.

Then Lot looked round and cried out and ran back towards

the city.

“What are you doing, accursed one?” the angels called after

him.

“I am going to help the people of Sodom,” answered Lot, and

he went into the city.

glennmagusharvey

One might even say that, back then...

~sunglasses~

...there were a lot of jerks.

Imipolex G

There's also a part where some teenage punks make fun of Elisha for being bald, so he gets some bears to come along and kill 42 of 'em

Real nice guy, there

Previous Calica

Justice42 said:

It's kinda funny God get's a lot of flack for killing people when the Bible goes well out of its way to explain that the people involved where more or less pure evil,yet no one sits around and questions why Elijah had hundreds of priests of Baal murdered because they lost the great matchless altar cook-off.

well you don't see people talking about murdering priests of Baal for matchless altars, but you do hear people complain about "sodomy".

Aliroz

Dirty Pillows said:

There's also a part where some teenage punks make fun of Elisha for being bald, so he gets some bears to come along and kill 42 of 'em

Real nice guy, there

Dude, those punks were threatening Elisha's life.

Justice4243

 

spinor said:

Justice42 said:

It's kinda funny God get's a lot of flack for killing people when the Bible goes well out of its way to explain that the people involved where more or less pure evil,yet no one sits around and questions why Elijah had hundreds of priests of Baal murdered because they lost the great matchless altar cook-off.

well you don't see people talking about murdering priests of Baal for matchless altars, but you do hear people complain about "sodomy".

As mentioned, that seems to be taking the verse out of context a bit where's Elijah's verse seems ripe for discussion of religious intolerance. 

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that the people who want to use Biblical canon to undermine the religions that use it are also people who don't necessarily have a full grasp of what's in the Bible, but it just seems a little more research would lead to less "square peg, round hole" situations. 

Imipolex G

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

2 Kings 2: 23-25

I see nothing to suggest life-threateningness. I suspect that to be another rationalization to explain the random jerkiness of...everyone in the OT

Aliroz

Dirty Pillows said:

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

2 Kings 2: 23-25

I see nothing to suggest life-threateningness. I suspect that to be another rationalization to explain the random jerkiness of...everyone in the OT

Naw, Elisha was a pretty gentle and easygoing guy every single time in the bible except that story.  It simply doesn't make sense unless it was a life-or-death situation.

I mean, Elisha's one of the nicest guys in the OT, except for that.

Justice4243

Well, he didn't necessarily sick bears on them. He just cursed them in the name of the Lord and two bears took this as their cue to maul 42 dudes.

Imipolex G

So it was the bears who were the jerks!

Obā-san

THE WRATH OF GOD IS AT HAND

REPENT YE SINNERS

Justice4243

42 PEOPLE DIED MAKING THIS MOVIE!

Obā-san

spoiler alert

the bears that killed the priests of Baal and the gay rapists of Sodom and Gomorrah were ONE AND THE SAME

Justice4243

Evil, gay bears crucified Jesus!

Justice4243

They also flooded the earth.

And convinced the serpent to get Adam and Eve to eat the fruit of knowledge. 

...and killed Able then blamed Cain.

Justice4243

Someone call the Pope, there's been an unbearable mistake! 

Obā-san

the Bearluminati and the Bears Templar

THE GAY BEARS

I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG, IT'S ALL CONNECTED

WHO'S LAUGHING NOW BITCHES??????

Justice4243

Gay bears did the Crusades and 9/11. 

It's right there in Leonardo Da Vinci's work.

Justice4243

That bear is clearly raping that ill defined man shaped blob with the bear leg sticking out of it's neck.

Imipolex G

I think the reptilians are a more interesting threat than bears, to be honest

I wonder if orgone would work on bears

Tanya

Justice42 said:

Old Testament every-fucking-one is kinda a jerk. 

Sort of makes it difficult to pass moral judgement on a group when "being a dick" was apparently the cultural norm.

That's why it's a bad piece of fiction.

Obā-san

oh siznap

Justice4243

Counterclock said:

Justice42 said:

Old Testament every-fucking-one is kinda a jerk. 

Sort of makes it difficult to pass moral judgement on a group when "being a dick" was apparently the cultural norm.

That's why it's a bad piece of fiction.

2/10. 

Better luck next time.

Imipolex G

burn?

Obā-san

2/10 more like 2 ownage 4 u funDIE scum

I CALL UPON THE POWER OF!

...

you know i was gonna do this elaborate magical girl transformation thing invoking the names of dawkins and hitchens and stuff and turning into sailor fedora but that does not translate well into a text based medium u_u

being funny is haaarrrrddddd 8<

Sredni Vashtar

But you won't be Sailor Pluto because Pluto is just a dwarf planet.

*smirk of villainy*

Justice4243

Obā-san

are you accusing me of being short mister

i will have you know i am much taller than most kitties

Obā-san

if everyone is dead do philosophical concepts still exist

if not can i destroy philosophy by killing everybody?

Justice4243

Clearly these all need to be Sailor Senshi:

I love the theme they have going the Pluto.

Sailor Orcus would be interesting,

Clearly Sailor 2007 OR₁₀  would be a bigger nerd than even Ami.

Justice4243

Pangur Bán said:

if everyone is dead do philosophical concepts still exist

if not can i destroy philosophy by killing everybody?

That might work if only because there will be no one left to argue against you.

Obā-san

also why are philosophy and religion both so people-centric

why is science

why do people think about people all of the time

Obā-san

i detect bias

Justice4243

^^To distract us from the fact that Gay Bears secretly control a major broadcast company along with most other things.

Obā-san

i have decided that from now on people should attempt to observe and infer things as little as possible so we can (not) see what happens