Kindle

edited 2012-06-30 23:09:01 in General

When I hear the term Kindle I think not of imaginations fired but of crematoria lit. And when I hear the term "hi-tech" I think not of helpful androids efficiently performing household chores or light-speed rockets gliding seamlessly through space but of the fact that between 1933-45, modern technology was used to perform in ever more efficient ways the mass murder of six million of my people. The instruments of so-called progress, placed in the hands of the modern state, disappeared six million Jewish men, women and children, into a void from which they will never return and in which a majority of them remain forever unidentified. This was done in the name of progress by means of technology for the creation of a better world.

The Nazis often were, by their own lights, well-intentioned idealists working for a better tomorrow. And their instrument was modern technology, aspects of philosophical and aesthetic modernism and the old religious concept of supercession implicit in the Christian notion of progress. Jews were outmoded, useless, they said. Most high level Nazis, like Himmler or Heydrich or Eichmann, did not feel visceral hatred towards the Jew. Rather, they looked upon them coldly as something that simply needed to disappear so that the new life could get on its way. And the means by which they sought to do so was first through a propaganda campaign that portrayed Jews, in Wagnerian terms, as a drag on the visionary energies and bursting vigor of the new Aryan man, and then by the implementation of this decision to eliminate Jews through ever more sophisticated state corporate and scientific technological means. And yet, during the war crime trials at Nuremberg, while Nazi Jurisprudence was tried and hanged, Nazi technological attitudes were not put on trial.

The victorious Allies did not mandate that technology, which had been turned to such murderous ends, must pass an ethical standard review from an international body, like a UN of technology. No such body of decision came about. To the contrary, even while the war crime trials of Nazi chieftains were in session, American and Soviet governments were recruiting high-level Nazis to their intelligence services, military armaments industries, and space programs. So that, while in jurisprudence terms Nazi social and political values were delivered a blow, the Nazi fascination with technology merged seamlessly with that of their conquerors: us.

That is why today we drive Volkswagens, which were invented by Hitler, and use space heaters from companies that may once have manufactured crematoria and why Werner Von Braun, the Nazi father of the V-2 rocket became an American space pioneer hero studied in public schools. Nazi Technology and corporate methodology was folded handily into American feel-good Capitalist culture. That is the very point of the brilliant satire, "Dr. Strangelove".

So that now, sixty four years after the Holocaust, the Nazi disdain for the book has become the feel-good Hi-Tech campaign to rid the world of books in place of massive easily controlled centralized repositories of book texts downloadable on little hand-held devices and from which a text can be dissapeared with the click of a mouse: in Nazi terms, a dream come true.

How grave was Nazi contempt for books? As response to the book burnings in Germany, in the May 11, 1933 issue of Chicago's Daily Worker, (and years before the first fully operational death camps opened their furnace doors), a grim cartoon entitled "Altars of the Nazis" portrayed two smoking crematoria of equal size, placed side by side, one marked "Nazi Victims" and the other "Condemned Books". The link between contempt for books and mass murder could not be more clear.

President Roosevelt, recognizing the threat of Nazi attitudes to the book, launched a full-scale government campaign, and declaring it part of the national war effort, said: "...books...embody man's eternal fight against tyranny. In this war, we know, books are weapons."

In World War II, people died to produce and protect books. Anti-Fascist organizations, American Jewish Groups and writers, editors and journalists launched massive demonstrations in defense of the book, including, on March 10, 1933, the largest march, to that date, in the history of New York City: 100,000 people turned out to express outrage at the burning of books and other events in Germany. In its coverage of the Berlin book burnings, Newsweek used "Holocaust" as its headline.

Today's hi-tech propagandists tell us that the book is a tree-murdering, space-devouring, inferior form that society would be better off without. In its place, they want us to carry around the Uber-Kindle.

The hi-tech campaign to relocate books to Google and replace books with Kindles is, in its essence, a deportation of the literary culture to a kind of easily monitored concentration camp of ideas, where every examination of a text leaves behind a trail, a record, so that curiosity is also tinged with a sense of disquieting fear that some day someone in authority will know that one had read a particular book or essay. This death of intellectual privacy was also a dream of the Nazis. And when I hear the term Kindle, I think not of imaginations fired but of crematoria lit.

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Comments

  • Hey I remember this rant.

    I forget where I read it, though.

  • edited 2012-06-30 23:18:51

    Why the fuck does anyone read this crap?


    Sorry if that's a bit harsh, but really?


    These people are not worth the mental effort.
  • That is the very point of the brilliant satire, "Dr. Strangelove".
    Dr. Strangelove does point that out, but it's hardly the point of the film.
  • Doctor Who reference in Pokemon B2W2? Headcanon accepted.
    I just love how people desperately seek and innovate to find new things to be offended over
  • Most people are stupid, it's nothing to get excited over.


    To be honest, it's rather rude to point it out, seeing that they can do nothing about it.
  • Doctor Who reference in Pokemon B2W2? Headcanon accepted.
    I'm no psychologist but it seems apparent to me that this chap and others who are so busy getting offended over this and everything else are doing so to give themselves a perch on what they perceive to be higher moral ground. Then others come along and attempt to outdo the last, like an Ouroboros. Hence why a Kindle is Hitler. 
  • "Excuse me sir, but are you aware that HITLER?"
  • Most people are stupid, it's nothing to get excited over.


    To be honest, it's rather rude to point it out, seeing that they can do nothing about it.



    Wow, I'm sorry but this might just rubs me the wrong way.

    "Most people are stupid"? Really? Cuz that kind of goes against the very concept of stupid, which is exceptionally unintelligent. Most people can't be stupid, that's not even what it means.

    And if you're saying "most people are stupider than me" which is probably what you mean, that's an awfully big assumption to make.

    Also it's not at all rude to point out "and therefore HITLER" is stupid. Especially when the person making the argument isn't even here.

  • edited 2012-07-01 00:32:15

    It just feels...


    Wrong when they can't defend themselves.


    Like, I'd be ok if we laughed to his/her face, because then there could be dialogue, and (*possibly*) realisations of wrong-ness.


    But as it is, this seems very mean-spirited, even, in fact especially, because of the sheer innanity of this person's statements.


    I find this sort of discussion disturbing.
  • I feel it's a tad condescending that we just assume s/he's too stupid to defend themselves?

    In fact, much more condescending than pointing out how stupid I happen to think it is?

  • edited 2012-07-01 00:36:52

    I'm not assuming that the person is too stupid to defend themselves, I'm saying that they can't.


    Because they are not here.


    And that's wrong.
  • Oh.

    Well if that was the case, wouldn't it technically always be wrong to talk about a person that's not there?

    And that's like....a lot of different things.

  • edited 2012-07-01 00:43:55

    But this person is being mentioned specifically due to a moment of incredible stupidity, in a manner that is unprovoked, and is not enriching in any way to , and in fact debases, the discourse here.


    They have never had any relations with this site, and as such, there is no reason for this.


    Now,if they has written this treatise on how terrible and awful shitposting is, I could see a reason for this thread. If this were a forum dedicated to Kindles this would be somewhat more justified.


    But as it is, I have my concerns.
  • ....okay, sure.

    Thing is though we're not attacking the person (I have no clue who wrote this, I know it's been going around the 'net for awhile), we're attacking what they said. Which is basically stating "Nazis would like Kindles therefore Kindles are bad."

    I think that kind of thing deserves at least, criticism, because it's for one thing just bad logic, for another thing, a completely baseless attempt to discredit an innocuous item.

  • It's also nonthreatening. It's not like this bit of silliness is relevant in the slightest.


    I am of the opinion that, and this is just my opinion, that simply going "LOL this is retarded" (*Which even the most cursory reading shows to be true*) and going around laughing at its overwhelming backwardness is detrimental, not simply to whatever distinctly foolish wrote this, but to us.


    Discussing this brings us nor anyone else any benefit, it simply wastes mental resources in a form of simple egotictical self-gratification and leaves us further jaded.
  • Discussing this brings us nor anyone else any benefit, it simply wastes mental resources in a form of simple egotictical self-gratification and leaves us further jaded.



    And what you're doing is....what, exactly, by contrast?

    Furthermore, I only even said anything because the thread is here at all. I didn't make it, and frankly that Odradek does this all the time kind of annoys me too, but for once I can actually understand the block of text he copied, so why would I not comment? It's here, isn't it?

    You're overestimating the amount of thought I (and people in general) put into our every action.

  • I dunno.


    I'm sort of struggling with this in my head.


    It's hypocritical, for sure.


    How can I express these ideas well? They contradict each other in my head in a way I can't quite resolve.


    Cognitive dissonance is a funny thing, especially when you're aware of it.


    But am I wrong in saying we shouldn't do this?


    I don't think I am.
  • But am I wrong in saying we shouldn't do this?


    I don't think I am.



    Then perhaps, instead of rudely butting into a conversation and cryptically speaking about the wellbeing of a nonpresent individual, you can simply politely state that you find such discussion distasteful and leave it at that.

    It's really not a difficult thing to do, and this discussion could've been mostly avoided if you'd just done that. In fact I'd mostly agree with you if you had.

    Pardon me if I'm seeming rude myself here, but it's kind of weird to decide you're going to call someone out for something and then be as roundabout about it as I feel you've been here.

  • Not a hybrid rabbit-skink spirit
    This is too deep for me.

    I'm gonna go stare at some shiny things.
  • Shiny things are both the cause of and solution to many of life's problems.
  • Honestly I suppose I'm being unfair here, and despite putting as much effort into it as I have I don't really feel like continuing this line of conversation, so I'm willing to drop it if you are FM.
  • I prefer the duality of shiny things to (most) serious Internet discussion.

    Although I could tell off fanboy trolls on The Verge all day. That shit never gets old.
  • edited 2012-07-01 01:11:06

    Then perhaps, instead of rudely butting into a conversation and
    cryptically speaking about the wellbeing of a nonpresent individual, you
    can simply politely state that you find such discussion distasteful and
    leave it at that.

    It's really not a difficult thing to do,
    and this discussion could've been mostly avoided if you'd just done
    that. In fact I'd mostly agree with you if you had.

    You're right.


    But this... I can't work it out, and I have been trying for some time.


    Because, on one hand one part of my my brain thinks this is wrong because "THIS IS ALL STUPID. ALL YOU ARE STUUUUUPID." And the other half is all like "this is wrong because it's not right to do this, because people's feelings need to be considered, and everyone brings important things to the tableof life's experience"


    So they're in agreement on the merits of this discussion, but for completely different, and contradictory, reasons.

    Sorry about my jumbled brain contents, they escape me, sometimes in a logorrheic and not entirely useful manner, hope I haven't inconvenienced you.


    I'll leave y'all to your discussing this.
  • This is too deep for me.


    I'm gonna go stare at some shiny things.
    A most wise course of action.


    I knew I liked you for things besides your dashing good looks and cuddlerifficness.
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    You know...it's not really the Kindle's fault more books or going digital. It's really more of this "save the environment, printing paper is BAD!" Schools do this, corporations do it, the governments are in on it, I'm sure.

    The Kindle and other devices for reading digital books are just taking an aspect of this making doing away with the form of print viable.

    Now, I like and prefer books still, but comparing what the Kindle is doing is ludicrous. Book burning usually happens because people are attacking an idea or ideas. The Kindle is doing just the opposite. Honestly, this whole rant seems built up to make a point that doesn't even make sense.


    Now, regarding the OTHER topic that was brought up, for me, it really depends on the source. If this person wrote this in a fora, even a public one, I'd say it's in bad form to grab it and parade it around to other places when that person was probably addressing a specific audience.

    Now, if it's off a blog or a web-site where the person is appealing to as many people as possible and hoping to get people who agree, than I think it's fair game. They're presenting their idea for the world to evaluate, regardless of what they hope, of course not everyone is going to agree.
  • edited 2012-07-01 02:51:29
    You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    The one thing that concerns me about the Kindle is that the whole content delivery system is so centralized that the end user is more or less at the mercy of Amazon.com.

    There was an incident a few years ago where Amazon went and remotely deleted copies of certain e-books--ironically, works by George Orwell--from Kindle devices without the consent of the users. There was a backlash, of course, and they promised not to do it again, but there's nothing actually preventing them from doing so.
  • The sadness will last forever.
    Kindle?

    Eh on that.
  • TreTre
    edited 2012-07-01 03:03:52
    image


    The one thing that concerns me about the Kindle is that the whole content delivery system is so centralized that the end user is more or less at the mercy of Amazon.com.


    I prefer the Nook because B&N lets you get ePubs from wherever you want (including DRM-less ones), and since it's an open standard there are plenty of free and legal books you can find (and the paid ones can be obtained from Google, B&N or the publishers themselves) and they're readable on dang near every e-reader under the sun except for the Kindle line.

    Amazon has a good selection of .mobi books but their resistance to adopt ePub is kind of irritating and the major reason I got a Nook back in 2010 and still will lean toward it now.
  • You are the end result of a “would you push the button” prompt where the prompt was “you have unlimited godlike powers but you appear to all and sundry to be an impetuous child” – Zero, 2022
    That too. If I'd paid cash, I probably would have gone for the nook because it accepts ePub books, but because I had an Amazon.com trade-in credit I bought a Kindle instead.

    I got it intending to check out ebooks from the public library's site (which I do), but I find it's handy for other things as well. Oftentimes I find myself using it instead of printing things out, especially when it comes to things like lecture notes for a class.
  • THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the person quoted in the OP is just looking for a soapbox to climb on. Invoking Hitler doesn't work these days unless you have a good reason, and this guy really did not think this through all the way. 

    That said...I don't have a Kindle and probably won't bother getting one. Partially because you cant really do much with a Kindle except read books, partially because I already have a decent smartphone and so a Kindle would be redundant.
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the person quoted in the OP is just looking for a soapbox to climb on. Invoking Hitler doesn't work these days unless you have a good reason, and this guy really did not think this through all the way. 

    Comparing a technology that lets you conveniently read things without using paper to book burning and mass murder is certainly missing the mark.

    I find it funny that the author starts out by pointing out he's a Jew, as if such things give him "Godwin Privileges".
  • THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    I know I certainly prefer paper to reading on a screen, but comparing it to the Holocaust? 

    image

    This is incredibly silly!
  • THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS
    (I always seem to end up making MSPA references in these threads. Odd.)
  • KJIKJI
    Yeah... yeah!!! hell yeah!!!
    Android sucks
  • Doctor Who reference in Pokemon B2W2? Headcanon accepted.

    It's also nonthreatening. It's not like this bit of silliness is relevant in the slightest.


    I'd argue that it's very threatening. It's a form of idiocy that influences other people to do the same or carry it to an even further illogical extreme. 

    James Randi gets asked this sort of thing all the time when he goes around proving that people really don't talk to the dead or how dowsers can't really detect water under the soil. "What's the harm?" they ask whenever they point out how someone can feel a bit more comfortable thinking they just talked to their dead loved one. Randi then points out how the little bullshit lie or concept can snowball into the big one and has, historically, and by many times, ended up hurting and even killing people. Equating Hitler to Kindles may not be in the realm of paranormal but it's under the same umbrella of Complete Bullshit and needs to be criticized, made fun of, and ripped apart because if it isn't, someone will come along and think that this timewasting nonsense is a good idea. 
  • But no-one could ever believe this except for the person who wrote it.


    Unless this was communicated via medium, then people would gobble it up. :P
  • Doctor Who reference in Pokemon B2W2? Headcanon accepted.

    But no-one could ever believe this except for the person who wrote it.


    Unless this was communicated via medium, then people would gobble it up. :P

    Trust me, people are gullible enough to think that this is a very rational argument at face value
  • Y'know, I said most people are stupid earlier for just that reason.



    And then I go and contradict myself.


    Arghlebarghle.
  • edited 2012-07-01 13:58:43
    imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch

    It's also nonthreatening. It's not like this bit of silliness is relevant in the slightest.


    I'd argue that it's very threatening. It's a form of idiocy that influences other people to do the same or carry it to an even further illogical extreme. 

    James Randi gets asked this sort of thing all the time when he goes around proving that people really don't talk to the dead or how dowsers can't really detect water under the soil. "What's the harm?" they ask whenever they point out how someone can feel a bit more comfortable thinking they just talked to their dead loved one. Randi then points out how the little bullshit lie or concept can snowball into the big one and has, historically, and by many times, ended up hurting and even killing people. Equating Hitler to Kindles may not be in the realm of paranormal but it's under the same umbrella of Complete Bullshit and needs to be criticized, made fun of, and ripped apart because if it isn't, someone will come along and think that this timewasting nonsense is a good idea. 

    I see your point, and it's a good one, but like FM said, the guy who wrote that isn't even here.  I doubt there's anyone on this board who isn't already familiar with the association fallacy/reductio ad Hitlerum (or at least with Godwin's law or the Hitler Ate Sugar trope, neither of which is a mile away from it).

    There are obviously constructive reasons to criticize this kind of bullshit, but on a forum like this one, where, I think it's safe to assume, nobody thinks Kindles have anything to do with Nazism, not so much.  If this topic hadn't gone meta, it would just be a mock thread.
  • edited 2012-07-01 14:01:09
    READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    Y'know, I said most people are stupid earlier for just that reason.



    And then I go and contradict myself.


    Arghlebarghle.
    Well I think it's the "most" people aspect. I kinda doubt over 50% of the populace would accept this, but it doesn't mean many people wouldn't fall for it.


    But no-one could ever believe this except for the person who wrote it.


    Unless this was communicated via medium, then people would gobble it up. :P

    Maybe his works will become popular enough they'll be published to an e-book. 
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    "There are obviously constructive reasons to criticize this kind of bullshit, but on a forum like this one, where, I think it's safe to assume, nobody thinks Kindles have anything to do with Nazism, not so much.  If this topic hadn't gone meta, it would just be a mock thread."

    Even with everyone agreeing with each other, it's not like we can't get take his argument apart seriously as opposed to just talking about what a stupid douche-bag he is, though. Even if it's a week argument. 

    I know there's not really much of a chance the guys going to come in here to defend himself, but if he put this out intending for the public to consume it, then I don't see what the issue is. No one stops two people from talking about an editorial in their living room just because the author isn't going to break in through a window and start defending himself.

    There's actually a MUCH higher chance of the internet equivalent to that happening here.
  • Doctor Who reference in Pokemon B2W2? Headcanon accepted.
    Edward Cayce and Nostradamus aren't around to defend all the predictions and prophecies the two of them put out for public consumption, but that doesn't mean they're not still being taken with dead seriousness. Bullshit is bullshit and needs to be identified as such. Even if the fellow who penned this mess showed up, I don't see how he could possibly defend such a ridiculous notion other than with claiming anyone who disagrees with him is a nazi (the internet's favorite metric) or, that he was trolling all along (the internet's favorite backpedal.)
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    Justice42 said:

    Even with everyone agreeing with each other, it's not like we can't get take his argument apart seriously as opposed to just talking about what a stupid douche-bag he is, though. Even if it's a week argument. 

    I know there's not really much of a chance the guys going to come in here to defend himself, but if he put this out intending for the public to consume it, then I don't see what the issue is. No one stops two people from talking about an editorial in their living room just because the author isn't going to break in through a window and start defending himself.

    There's actually a MUCH higher chance of the internet equivalent to that happening here.

    Point taken. To be honest, I don't care that much either way, but it sometimes feels to me like we see a lot of threads dissecting obviously-bad arguments with obviously-dumb conclusions, and it just seems a little pointless because everyone can see what's wrong with it.  It's not something you even need to seriously take apart.

    If people really want to talk about it I don't want to make an issue of it, but there was a discussion underway and I gave my opinion.
    Justice42 said:

    Y'know, I said most people are stupid earlier for just that reason.



    And then I go and contradict myself.


    Arghlebarghle.
    Well I think it's the "most" people aspect. I kinda doubt over 50% of the populace would accept this, but it doesn't mean many people wouldn't fall for it.

    There's stupid and there's stupid.  And then there's regular ignorant, which most people will grow out of if given the opportunity and maybe a patient nudge in the right direction.  FM, you tend to come across as more informed and capable of critical thought than most people.

    But I really doubt that most people are "Kindles = Nazism" stupid.  That takes a special kind of idiocy.
    Justice42 said:


    But no-one could ever believe this except for the person who wrote it.


    Unless this was communicated via medium, then people would gobble it up. :P

    Maybe his works will become popular enough they'll be published to an e-book. 

    Heh.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch

    Edward Cayce and Nostradamus aren't around to defend all the predictions and prophecies the two of them put out for public consumption, but that doesn't mean they're not still being taken with dead seriousness. Bullshit is bullshit and needs to be identified as such. Even if the fellow who penned this mess showed up, I don't see how he could possibly defend such a ridiculous notion other than with claiming anyone who disagrees with him is a nazi (the internet's favorite metric) or, that he was trolling all along (the internet's favorite backpedal.)

    Well yeah.  But there are like 40 people who use this forum regularly, if that, and I don't think any of them would believe that nonsense.
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    Nazi's used technology, the Kindle IS technology...coincidence?! 


    Shit, I just typed that on a computer! Guys, I think I might be an anti-Semite
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    I had no real reason other than personal amusement to bring this story up, because everyone who reads these forums already agrees that it's silly and the people who don't will never read this thread.
  • imagei will watch the heck outta this pumpkin patch
    BUT THEN...

    NOTED SCHOLAR/SOTI COTO/ESTNIHIL

    :p
  • My dreams exceed my real life
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-kaufman/google-books-and-kindles_b_380536.html

    I doubt a guy who can get on the Huffington Post would bother with some inane spinoff site.

    I may have to eat these words, but I'm okay with that.
  • Doctor Who reference in Pokemon B2W2? Headcanon accepted.
    I knew the HuffPo was stupid, but not criminally and irresponsibly stupid

    Well you learn something new every day
  • READ MY CROSS SHIPPING-FANFICTION, DAMMIT!

    i get so angry sometimes i just punch plankton --Klinotaxis
    OK Yeah, if it's on a online news site it's about as ripe for discussion as it's going to get.

    Also:

    image
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